Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Winston Churchill have a different meal in a certain day will apparently lead to an Axis victory.
Irritating cliches of post-1900 Alternate History:
- Thread starter Snake Featherston
- Start date
HeavyWeaponsGuy
Banned
If Only We Didn't Have That Commie-Lover FDR For President We Could've Kept Eastern Europe Free! AKA McCarthy Syndrome.
Yeah no, any US president, let alone a great one like FDR, was faced with two choices: give the Soviets Lend-Lease aid and eventually have that loan come due in the form of a Soviet Eastern Europe, or cut them off and risk the possibility of a substantial portion of the Wehrmacht being freed from engagements in the Soviet Union to come and fight the West.
Confederate States Forever
The CSA, once independent, needed only that impetus to launch itself as a major power and challenge the United States and have a Timeline-191 sort of situation.
Yeah... no, it'll be a backwards economy based entirely off of a commodity not unlike Guinea-Bassau or another similar resource economy in Africa, and unlike the oil states, cotton will eventually collapse as a commodity.
Yeah no, any US president, let alone a great one like FDR, was faced with two choices: give the Soviets Lend-Lease aid and eventually have that loan come due in the form of a Soviet Eastern Europe, or cut them off and risk the possibility of a substantial portion of the Wehrmacht being freed from engagements in the Soviet Union to come and fight the West.
Confederate States Forever
The CSA, once independent, needed only that impetus to launch itself as a major power and challenge the United States and have a Timeline-191 sort of situation.
Yeah... no, it'll be a backwards economy based entirely off of a commodity not unlike Guinea-Bassau or another similar resource economy in Africa, and unlike the oil states, cotton will eventually collapse as a commodity.
wolf_brother
Banned
And they are always best friends where, no matter what, Britain always backs the United States and vice-versa, or (more prominently in pre-1900 TLs) worst enemies where the US invades (and conquers) Canada and potentially other British territories. No other options - its either fight to the death gladiator style, or bffs with rainbows and unicorns
HeavyWeaponsGuy
Banned
And they are always best friends where, no matter what, Britain always backs the United States and vice-versa, or (more prominently in pre-1900 TLs) worst enemies where the US invades (and conquers) Canada and potentially other British territories. No other options - its either fight to the death gladiator style, or bffs with rainbows and unicorns
Yeah, there's never even a relationship of "mild coexistence with a lot of trade", either one comes riding in with the cavalry to save the other in its time of need or hate hate hatred.
REAGAN is always president, even if the PoD is in the Middle Ages.
Can I assume by the eyes rolling that you have actually seen this happen?
Yeah this is annoying. I reckon if France got half the chance it would try and get its own back on Germany but it wouldn't just be World War II reversed.
After WWI Polish-Lithuanian state can be restored to the joy of both Poles and Lithuanians.
Nope. In vast majority of cases it can't. Usually there is little intencentive for the victorious powers to do so. Not to mention the fact the relations between the two were rather poor and Lithuanians partly built their own national identity on oppossition to Poles.
Lithuanian ports are an adequate replacement for the Polish Corridor.
Nope. River Vistula still is the major trade artery and there remain problems with distance and railway connections. Without major investment and rerouting Lithuanian ports are not comparable to the Corridor. This cliche is especially irrititating if Memel remains German.
Nope. In vast majority of cases it can't. Usually there is little intencentive for the victorious powers to do so. Not to mention the fact the relations between the two were rather poor and Lithuanians partly built their own national identity on oppossition to Poles.
Lithuanian ports are an adequate replacement for the Polish Corridor.
Nope. River Vistula still is the major trade artery and there remain problems with distance and railway connections. Without major investment and rerouting Lithuanian ports are not comparable to the Corridor. This cliche is especially irrititating if Memel remains German.
Japan and the USA always go to war in the middle of the 20th century. This war always features a Japanese sneak attack on Pearl Harbor. All this regardless of whatever else is going on in the world. The end result of this war is Japan, and the Japanese, being nearly destroyed. Sometimes the main reason given for this is that the Japanese of the time are insane.
To be fair to the CSA, they'd also have those oil wells in Texas and I think some silver mines depending on how much they keep to help a bit. However, it would never be a major power. It would be a secondary power and likely unstable if they can't sort out their government and unify, something that'd be hard for a country built on state's rights.
The Bolshevik rise to power is always aborted, and its better that way.
Nearly every timeline, the Bolsheviks either lose out in favor of another faction or through the foreknowledge of the Allied powers, the Russian Empire is spared collapse through intervention. It sounds nice to any anti-communist, but the reality is that the Bolsheviks were probably the best case scenario if you want an intact Russia.
If Germany doesn't start WWII, the Soviet Union does.
Something that would seem normal to anyone who believes typical World War II stereotypes, but its likely the Soviets wouldn't overstep themselves if they knew there were critical risks. Stalin exploited upheaval, but he wouldn't create it.
Huey Long always does better.
I don't know where this notion starts, probably because he's the most notable loon out of the Great Depression pickings. Again, it's overdone and not well researched.
Nearly every timeline, the Bolsheviks either lose out in favor of another faction or through the foreknowledge of the Allied powers, the Russian Empire is spared collapse through intervention. It sounds nice to any anti-communist, but the reality is that the Bolsheviks were probably the best case scenario if you want an intact Russia.
If Germany doesn't start WWII, the Soviet Union does.
Something that would seem normal to anyone who believes typical World War II stereotypes, but its likely the Soviets wouldn't overstep themselves if they knew there were critical risks. Stalin exploited upheaval, but he wouldn't create it.
Huey Long always does better.
I don't know where this notion starts, probably because he's the most notable loon out of the Great Depression pickings. Again, it's overdone and not well researched.
If the Habsburgs managed to hold together squabbling nationalities together, then they could conceivably do so for a bit longer. Militarily speaking they did pretty well despite being bootstrapped by Germany, although 1848 reared its head again and Charles I wasn't ultimately up to the task.
Isn't your scenario OTL till the Cold War?
MAlexMatt
Banned
You don't think there was a single political faction in Russia that wouldn't kill 10 million Russians right out the gate?
Hmmm I know this has been pointed out before, but a general lack of Butterflies is the biggest pain. For example, I read a TL draft where World War I/II never happened, but 9 11 does right on schedule. Watergate also happened pretty much as we knew it, as did the Bush/Gore showdown of 2000 after the Clinton presidency.
Another one is the consensous that Nixon being elected in 1960 leads to World War III. If that doesn't happen, Watergate still does, just 8 years earlier.
There are a few TL's on Alternate History Wiki involving famous people (MLK, Elvis or whoever) surviving past their OTL untimely deaths. They then go in to politics (even if they haven't expressed any interest in doing so up until they died IOTL). They nearly always end up being the most successful president of recent times.
Another one is the consensous that Nixon being elected in 1960 leads to World War III. If that doesn't happen, Watergate still does, just 8 years earlier.
There are a few TL's on Alternate History Wiki involving famous people (MLK, Elvis or whoever) surviving past their OTL untimely deaths. They then go in to politics (even if they haven't expressed any interest in doing so up until they died IOTL). They nearly always end up being the most successful president of recent times.
HeavyWeaponsGuy
Banned
Yeah, but you're basically stringing along an entirely imploded economic system on two commodities that will not make enough of a difference for them to escape "developing country" status while the United States should largely continue to industrialize and develop as OTL.
And once the disparity is large enough, the US will overrun the Confederacy.
Would they even bother? Integrating less developed territories can be rather costy.
HeavyWeaponsGuy
Banned
Uh... yes... there is very little reason after suffering the IMMENSE humiliation of having a former part of the Union successfully rebel against its rule that a vast majority of US citizens will not view the Confederates as illegitimate and want to retake them whenever they can. It isn't so much an issue of cold economics, it's an issue of sentiments, which will be overwhelmingly in favor of reuniting the Union.
HeavyWeaponsGuy
Banned
I don't think that's what he meant, I just think he's bashing the idea that the Whites winning or anything like that is hardly going to be a peachy outcome, at least the Reds weren't into pogroms the way the Whites were...