Irritating clichés about Pre-1900 AH

[othyrsyde]

You can probably avoid most of the cliches on this list very easily just by writing about somethings besides Europe, Canada, or the USA.

I fell into focusing on Europe first, but I had most of my ideas in cement about it in the changes I did for the redux version of TOC. As for Anglosphere America - the US was stillborn, and Canada won't exist, so there goes any cliches associated with them.

 

[Beedok]

You can probably avoid most of the cliches on this list very easily just by writing about somethings besides Europe, Canada, or the USA.

Or just completely changing the balance of Europe and North America.

 

[Will Kürlich Kerl]

Don't little countries (save Switzerland) solely exist as things to get in the way of Great Powers?

Liechtenstein

 

[Will Kürlich Kerl]

You can probably avoid most of the cliches on this list very easily just by writing about somethings besides Europe, Canada, or the USA.

However, butterflies from the event that happens outside of Europe, Canada, and the United States eventually reach Europe, Canada, and the United States, and soon, the cliches will all pop up again.

 

[eliphas8]

In my The Fox and the Lillies TL, I deliberately try to avert this and have multiple Russias surviving into the present day. They're of various size, culture and politics.

See I'd be interested in seeing a timeline where theres a united Russia but the Tatars manage to remain independent from them, why does that never happen?

 

[Badshah]

In my The Fox and the Lillies TL, I deliberately try to avert this and have multiple Russias surviving into the present day. They're of various size, culture and politics.

So would multiple Russia's still be possible after its unification? Wondering for my own TL.

 

[Klisz]

Male Rising.

One TL avoiding something does not prevent that something from being a cliché.

 

[Chairwoman Roxelana]

Don't little countries (save Switzerland) solely exist as things to get in the way of Great Powers?

Bhutan isn`t in the way of the Great Powers.

 

[Basileus444]

See I'd be interested in seeing a timeline where theres a united Russia but the Tatars manage to remain independent from them, why does that never happen?

Because the historial Tatar predilection for carting hundreds of thousands of Russians into slavery means that no united Russia will, if it has the strength, tolerate a Tatar neighbor. If you want a Russia and Tataria to co-exist peacefully, you'd probably need a pre-Mongol POD.

And my really irritating and often just plain offensive cliche is (not just applicable to pre-1900):

Displaying intellectual interest in a particular alternate historical scenario is assumed to mean you desire said outcome in the real world. An example of this is the idea that all Byzantophiles are racist against Turks.

 

[Will Kürlich Kerl]

Georgia always become slave-owning.

 

[CaliBoy1990]

Georgia always become slave-owning.

That might unfortunately have some major validity to it, though: Georgia is very similar to South Carolina climate-wise, and the same crops grown in Georgia state will grow about as well as they did in S.C., and that's just one thing.

Texas, however, might be a different matter altogether.....

 

[Will Kürlich Kerl]

Politics are always divided left-right, even in timelines where the French Revolution never happens or where the French Third Republic never came to power. The French Third Republic is when the terms "left" and "right" are first used to determine and categorize political ideologies.

 

[Deleted member 67076]

Texas always wins: No matter what, Texas will achieve its independence, and if it forms its own republic later on it will never lose a war, never get conquered (or chunks of territory taken away) and even somehow manages to annex parts of Mexico.

 

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

Prussia always wins the Franco-Prussian War. No matter what level of PoD occurs, Prussia wins. And will, no matter what, take Alsace-Lorraine. As long as it happens in the mid/late 19th century, France loses.

 

[eliphas8]

The Mongols are capable of magics which makes them immune to logistic issues with their conquests and had Batu Khan not died when he died.

 

[Thespitron 6000]

Texas always wins: No matter what, Texas will achieve its independence, and if it forms its own republic later on it will never lose a war, never get conquered (or chunks of territory taken away) and even somehow manages to annex parts of Mexico.

Prussia always wins the Franco-Prussian War. No matter what level of PoD occurs, Prussia wins. And will, no matter what, take Alsace-Lorraine. As long as it happens in the mid/late 19th century, France loses.

Obviously, what is needed to avert these cliches is some kind of Prusso-Texan War.

 

[TRH]

The Mongols are capable of magics which makes them immune to logistic issues with their conquests and had Batu Khan not died when he died.

Also, the fact that they could occasionally force a surrender of a fortress or fortified city obviously indicates that the thousands of castles in central Europe will be less than speed bumps to their advance. Oh, and they'll never find themselves at such a tactical disadvantage that their horse archers would find themselves in melee against armored knights, so they'll never lose to a European army. Nope, delay their political troubles and they'll be right up against the English Channel before you know it.

 

[eliphas8]

Also, the fact that they could occasionally force a surrender of a fortress or fortified city obviously indicates that the thousands of castles in central Europe will be less than speed bumps to their advance. Oh, and they'll never find themselves at such a tactical disadvantage that their horse archers would find themselves in melee against armored knights, so they'll never lose to a European army. Nope, delay their political troubles and they'll be right up against the English Channel before you know it.

Don't forget that they can somehow continue to act as a plains army fighting in near completely flat territory despite moving through the diverse geographic landscapes of Europe. Horse archers can act in exactly the same way whether fighting in the plains of Hungary or in the Alps.

 

[Deleted member 67076]

Obviously, what is needed to avert these cliches is some kind of Prusso-Texan War.

Alright, now who wants to volunteer and write that?

 

[Will Kürlich Kerl]

Texas always wins: No matter what, Texas will achieve its independence, and if it forms its own republic later on it will never lose a war, never get conquered (or chunks of territory taken away) and even somehow manages to annex parts of Mexico.

It failed to achieve independence from the USA when Barack Obama was elected in 2008, even though there was a petition to secede from the USA.