Iroquois Nation?

[Jim Smitty]

Would it be possible for the Iroquois people to set up there own nation and remain and independe nation till modern times? I thinking this nation would be made up what today is Ohio, Penn, NY New England, Maine, parts of Ontario and other US states.

Would that be possible or ASB?

 

[twovultures]

The national territory you described is a LOT of land, which would have to be defended by a relatively small number of Iroquois from land hungry settlers from England. In addition, they would have to fight other tribes for territory.

The Iroquois were relatively well organized, and with a mixture of luck and a genius military leader could carve out a territorial base. If France does not lose their colonies, and the Iroquois play their cards exactly right, maintaining peace within the confederacy and using their Indian and European enemies against each-other, they could get a land grant to serve as a buffer between the French and English colonies. It's doubtful that the confederacy as a whole would be given enough land to support their traditional lifestyle, which is partly hunting dependent. So, you'd either get an Iroquois nation which is inhabited by only a fraction of Iroquois, or a single Iroquois nation which suffers from overcrowding and the environmental and sociological degradation that comes with it.
Even this scenario requires an insane amount of luck over a very long period of time. It would make an interesting TL, but there's a reason why this didn't happen IOTL.

 

[Æsir]

The peoples of New England and large parts of Pennsylvania aren't even Iroquoian, and it doesn't seem they ever controlled any of New England either. A surviving Iroquois could be possible, but I doubt it would be that big. Maybe no British annexation of Canada would help, given the Confederacy would no longer be surrounded on all sides by the British?

 

[azander12]

Is there any possibility that the Iroquois could suprt the American Revolution and end up as a self-governing state within the USA? US states have a lot of independence, especially with their Constitution being the way it is. I could see Iroquois moving out of their current territory to other states if population pressures get too high.

 

[twovultures]

Is there any possibility that the Iroquois could suprt the American Revolution and end up as a self-governing state within the USA?

That would require two ASB changes of heart. First, the Iroquois would have to want to answer to the (white) American government and follow its laws, even if those laws don't mesh with their own traditions. Secondly, it would require the American government to want to accept non-white, non-Christians whom they saw as savages into their polity in a way other than complete cultural assimilation. Not going to happen.

I could see Iroquois moving out of their current territory to other states if population pressures get too high.

Even if the Iroquois did this willingly-borderline ASB-they would then find themselves in conflict with the tribes whose land they're moving onto.

 

[Monty Burns]

Is there any possibility that the Iroquois could suprt the American Revolution and end up as a self-governing state within the USA? US states have a lot of independence, especially with their Constitution being the way it is. I could see Iroquois moving out of their current territory to other states if population pressures get too high.

What's needed for that is a complete change of Iroquois culture. They'd need to take over European agriculture and medicine, weapons, governance and religion. And they need to increase their numbers very quickly and accept European (likely British) overlords.

But even then they may end up the victims of racist politics giving their lands to whites.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Would it be possible for the Iroquois people to set up there own nation and remain and independe nation till modern times? I thinking this nation would be made up what today is Ohio, Penn, NY New England, Maine, parts of Ontario and other US states.

Would that be possible or ASB?

While the Haudenosaunee 'ruled' chunks of that land, they actually only inhabited upstate NY. They never even claimed anything in New England, to the best of my knowledge.

A nation that consists of the south shore of Lake Ontario (essentially), from Watertown at the east end, south to Utica and Syracuse, across to Buffalo is theoretically possible, but very, very difficult to achieve.

What keeps the white settlers from flooding in? iOTL, it didn't really matter what treaties said, if whites invaded Indian land, and the Indians attacked them, the US attacked them back for 'attacking Americans', even if those Americans were there illegally.