Iroqouis surviving?

What are the chances that, with further Europeanization and less colonialism, the Iroqiouis(who ere extremely badass IOTL) founding their own coherent modern state where Native Americans are the majority?
 

Sir Chaos

Banned
What are the chances that, with further Europeanization and less colonialism, the Iroqiouis(who ere extremely badass IOTL) founding their own coherent modern state where Native Americans are the majority?

Pretty much zero. As long as they have anything worth taking, Europeans (and Americans) will find an excuse for taking it. And they certainly won´t tolerate another political power in their backyard, much less one that isn´t white.
 
I wonder if they could have joined the 13 original states with an Iroquis state during/after the revolution? Things were more fluid, and the US desperatly in need of allies at then time. I do not see such as state remaining "Iroquis" for very long, and it would undoubtedly not even be Iroquis majority after a while, but the precedent would be interesting.
 
I wonder if they could have joined the 13 original states with an Iroquis state during/after the revolution? Things were more fluid, and the US desperatly in need of allies at then time. I do not see such as state remaining "Iroquis" for very long, and it would undoubtedly not even be Iroquis majority after a while, but the precedent would be interesting.

Especially considering how many of the Founding Fathers were favorable to them.

Also, big fyi guys, for one thing its spelled 'Iroquois.'
Secondly, the peoples we're discussing refer to themselves as the Haudenosaunee, which means "People of the Longhouse," or more accurately, "They Are Building a Long House." The word 'iroqouis' is a bad cross-translation from the tribes neighboring the Haudenosaunee to French, and in rough form it literally means 'black snake' or 'killer snake' - snakes in the grass, etc. A name may not seem like a big deal, but it is. While we don't refer to the French or Germans as francais or deutsch, we also don't call them Kraut or Frog either.

As in the case above, many common names for natives peoples are actually insults and loaded words. I use a simple rule of thumb to call groups by the names that they would call themselves when introducing themselves to you :)
 
One point in favor of the Iroquois is the difficulty of power projection across the ocean for a long time. I think an earlier colonization that allows for a partial recovery from exchange issues combined with earlier tech could lead to a longer surviving polity.
 
Actually, while the Iroquois likely would not be able to survive in any sort of majority capacity, an Iroquois state in a more successful ARW could be founded in OTL Northern New York. There actually were agreements in place for the recognition of such an arrangement, but were reneged on by the British a generation or so after the end of the ARW. This might be a province of Canada or simply a British protectorate.
 
Well, maybe. I'd say that anything like this abslutely requires that the Confederation not go through the disastrous split in the ARW (or have an entirely different history there), that really messed things up for them.

I'm leery about an earlier and different colonization, since that would probably end up with an entirely different Confederation in power that isn't the Iriquois. The circumstances of their rise to power were very complicated like most first peoples.
 
The crown wins the American War of Indpendence and creates an Indian state to the West of the Appalachians. The Iriquois confederacy remains united during the war and supports the crown. However the crown merely wanted to license rather than stop settlements west of the Appalachians and the Iriquois lands may have been gradually stolen by stealth. Also Britain may have behaved in a similar manner to their policy in South Africa after the Boer war and attempted to appease the settlers.

However let us say that Howe and Sir Henry Clinton insisted that ourv allies were rewarded then an Indian state stands a chance. A later scenario might have occurred with the Cree and Shawnee nations after the War of 1812 had thwe crown won and some of the Iriquois could have settled there
 

Susano

Banned
Also, big fyi guys, for one thing its spelled 'Iroquois.'
Secondly, the peoples we're discussing refer to themselves as the Haudenosaunee, which means "People of the Longhouse," or more accurately, "They Are Building a Long House." The word 'iroqouis' is a bad cross-translation from the tribes neighboring the Haudenosaunee to French, and in rough form it literally means 'black snake' or 'killer snake' - snakes in the grass, etc. A name may not seem like a big deal, but it is. While we don't refer to the French or Germans as francais or deutsch, we also don't call them Kraut or Frog either.
Hah. But you do refer as us as some 2000 year old tribes with no cultural connection. And the French describe us as Alemans, the West Slaves as Mutes and the Hungarians and Romanians as Saxons - so, cry me a river.
 
How could the Iroquois survive?

Well, why don't you ask them how they survived? They did survive, are a federally recognized tribe/confederation of tribes, and are currently kicking butt internationally in the field of lacrosse (a sport they invented), though their team recently ran into passport trouble-the UK doesn't recognize the Iroquois Nation issued passports.
I'm sure there's a few cultural centers you could e-mail who would be more than happy to answer your questions.
 
I would be interested in speculations about an Iroquois that does not split in the revolution and joins the fledgeling USA as a state. Two generations later, the dealings with the Five Civilized Tribes could have gone down quite differently.
 
How about in a north America devided by the English, Dutch, Spanish and France, the Iriquoi manage to ally themselves smartly and manage to play to European against each other, not unlike Siam.
 
How about in a north America devided by the English, Dutch, Spanish and France, the Iriquoi manage to ally themselves smartly and manage to play to European against each other, not unlike Siam.
Hoever this is a big what if, think about it the Iroquois invite foreign powers, and start the wars, but when one faction emerges victorious whats to stop that European country from pointing there guns at the Iroquois.
 
I think your best bet is for the Iroquois to adopt domestic animals much earlier. If they have leather and wool they don't need to hunt deer for clothing (which may possibly have been the limiting factor to their population iOTL). Animals give manure to fertilize fields, so you don't have to up and move your towns every 20 years or so.

Keeping more prisoners to build up the population (they did some), and increasing family size (strictly limited iOTL to keep within the carrying capacity of the land, see deer above) would allow the Haudenosaunee to grow as (almost?) fast as the the European immigrants on the coast. Fully integrating the Tuscarora as full members (instead of 'little brothers') might help.

If they have 10x the population size by the late 1700s (tricky, but may be doable), they'd have a MUCH better chance of survival.
 
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