"Irish" state in the New World

[Cuāuhtemōc]

This isn't asking "Is this idea feasible" it's asking you to come up with a scenario which fits inside the layed out parameters. I was just giving my thoughts on the topic.

I should have written "AHC" to make that clearer.



Maritimes:
•Can't support a large population
•Right next to Canada
•Right in between Canada and Britain
•Shitty weather

West Indian Island:
•Can support 10x the population of the Maritimes on its largest island
•Surrounded by potentially friendly states
•Somewhat out of the way for Britain, though still close to some important colonies
•Fucking lovely weather

What makes you think the Spanish are going to allow tens of thousands of Irish to settle down on their land? A few soldiers? Maybe. But why encourage Irish immigration when they had plenty of people from Spain itself wanting to go to the colonies? Are you that unaware how restrictive and difficult it was for someone to migrate to the colonies? The Flight of the Wild Geese was by no means comparable to the migration of Irish men and women in the nineteenth century.

Rule of Cool is nice but it doesn't mean it's that great of an idea.

 

[Strategos' Risk]

Former slaves, perhaps?

http://afgen.com/forgotten_slaves.html
http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/1638

 

[Revolutionary Todyo]

What makes you think the Spanish are going to allow tens of thousands of Irish to settle down on their land? A few soldiers? Maybe. But why encourage Irish immigration when they had plenty of people from Spain itself wanting to go to the colonies? Are you that unaware how restrictive and difficult it was for someone to migrate to the colonies? The Flight of the Wild Geese was by no means comparable to the migration of Irish men and women in the nineteenth century.

Rule of Cool is nice but it doesn't mean it's that great of an idea.

They don't have to encourage them, just more of them then OTL decide it's a good idea.

No I don't know, from what we were taught any sort of emigration pre-1950 was either getting on a boat or being forced onto a boat, the Spanish empire doesn't strike me as being too big on paperwork.

There were a lot of Irish guys in the Spanish army, a lot of them seem to have settled in Latin America, why not have more of them settle on a nice island instead?

Former slaves, perhaps?

http://afgen.com/forgotten_slaves.html
http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/1638

Yes something like that could also play a huge part in it. I keep thinking of some sort of Carribbean penal colony, though I think most of the islands were too valuable as plantations for that.

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

They don't have to encourage them, just more of them then OTL decide it's a good idea.

Again they would have to deal with the Spanish colonial authorities who would be wary to have so many non-Spanish speaking immigrants enter their ports without their permission. The Spanish Empire was well known for its restriction of colonial trade with other nations as well as the movement of peoples within their colonial possessions.

There were a lot of Irish guys in the Spanish army, a lot of them seem to have settled in Latin America, why not have more of them settle on a nice island instead?

There were Irish regiments but only the officers were actually Irish. The people in the Irish regiments in the Spanish army were predominately made up of Spaniards. Just because there were more than a few Irishmen who ended up in high positions in the Spanish government doesn't increase the viability or the plausibility of an Irish majority Spanish colony.

Oh and Darien is the reason why I'm skeptical of an Irish colony in the tropics.

 

[Revolutionary Todyo]

Again they would have to deal with the Spanish colonial authorities who would be wary to have so many non-Spanish speaking immigrants enter their ports without their permission. The Spanish Empire was well known for its restriction of colonial trade with other nations as well as the movement of peoples within their colonial possessions.



There were Irish regiments but only the officers were actually Irish. The people in the Irish regiments in the Spanish army were predominately made up of Spaniards. Just because there were more than a few Irishmen who ended up in high positions in the Spanish government doesn't increase the viability or the plausibility of an Irish majority Spanish colony.

Oh and Darien is the reason why I'm skeptical of an Irish colony in the tropics.

Well I was unaware of that.

I have always been under the impression that the majority of the soldiers were either Irish or of Irish parentage, though that could just be me confusing it with the French Irish battallion.

Well that was a clusterfuck undoubtedly.

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Well I was unaware of that.

I have always been under the impression that the majority of the soldiers were either Irish or of Irish parentage, though that could just be me confusing it with the French Irish battallion.

Well that was a clusterfuck undoubtedly.

It's why I suggested the Maritimes. It to me as similar weather to Ireland, is close to Ireland, and with an early enough POD, you could have a French king, generous of the Irish contribution to fighting the English, allot some land in Acadia for the Irish veteran soldiers and their families to settle down and farm as well as providing back-up to the few French colonists already there and their Native American allies when it comes to English aggression. Or perhaps somewhere in lower Quebec?

 

[Strategos' Risk]

Yes something like that could also play a huge part in it. I keep thinking of some sort of Carribbean penal colony, though I think most of the islands were too valuable as plantations for that.

Penal plantations, then?

 

[wilcoxchar]

The Maritimes or Newfoundland really is your best bet for an Irish state in the Americas. Parts of Canada were actually widely Gaelic speaking in the 19th century in OTL. It was concentrated in the Martitimes, so you just need a focused Irish immigration to the Maritimes during the famine then have a province not join Canada at Confederation. That or a more extensive presence of the Irish Newfoundlanders.

 

[pa_dutch]

What would the Irish do with a Caribbean island? They'd have to change their diet substantially (wheat, oats, and white potatoes aren't going to grow very well in the tropics), which would in turn change their culture more dramatically than some realize.

I think Cape Breton would be the ideal Irish colony in the New World. In fact, it is often considered a ninth Celtic nation (after the six "main" ones and the Spanish regions of Galicia and Asturias) in certain Celtic music festivals.

 

[Enigmajones]

And then the problem becomes an American tail wagging an increasingly worried Irish dog

The OP said, "Irish State" an ethnically Irish state could function independently. What did you mean colony?

 

[Revolutionary Todyo]

The OP said, "Irish State" an ethnically Irish state could function independently. What did you mean colony?

You were talking about an Irish colony.

 

[Enigmajones]

You were talking about an Irish colony.

No I was talking about Irish people moving independent of an official policy of colonization. Taking frontier land. As a Republic, a small Irish state could definitely function. Newfoundland would be the best location.

 

[Revolutionary Todyo]

No I was talking about Irish people moving independent of an official policy of colonization. Taking frontier land. As a Republic, a small Irish state could definitely function. Newfoundland would be the best location.

Well in that case it's deathscompanion1 who was talking about an Irish colony.

 

[Enigmajones]

Well in that case it's deathscompanion1 who was talking about an Irish colony.

Who? I think an Irish fishing state in Newfoundland would be awesome.

 

[Revolutionary Todyo]

Who? I think an Irish fishing state in Newfoundland would be awesome.

His comments are on the other page.

Yes well, I'm wanking this idea now. So, fuck yeah.

 

[longtimer]

wild geese in america

You can use the French Irish Brigade to reinforce Acadia or Louisbourg after 1698. It's 5000 irish men (3 regiments) and some of the jacobites of Ireland will follow.

 

[Revolutionary Todyo]

Ha! Got one, sort of.

This beauty!

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

The Maritimes or Newfoundland really is your best bet for an Irish state in the Americas. Parts of Canada were actually widely Gaelic speaking in the 19th century in OTL. It was concentrated in the Martitimes, so you just need a focused Irish immigration to the Maritimes during the famine then have a province not join Canada at Confederation. That or a more extensive presence of the Irish Newfoundlanders.

Wrong gaelic. Cape breton, eg, would not likely be interested in irish immigrants.

Nfld would be possible, however, imo.

 

[Lysandros Aikiedes]

Apparently in 1779, Maine was going to be called New Ireland by the British in the expectation that they were going to prevail over the Americans in what was then the northern regions of the Province of Massachusetts. It wasn't specifically intended for Irish immigrants, but more for Loyalist refugees.

 

[Tobit]

I think with a slightly implausible challenge I think a big POD is useful. So what if the Spanish Armada has better luck with the wind, and even after losing alot of ships to Drake; it ends up pulling off a successful invasion of Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Armada_in_Ireland

The Spanish would do well enough on land that the British and their plantations are cast off the island. I don't know how it goes from there, but it would be interesting if the Irish would be used as replacement conquistadors on the fringes of the Spanish empire.