Irish city states?

So, I had a really awesome observe game of crusader kings recently, and I have been trying to plausibly recreate some of the key points of this world.

So, what I am looking for right now is this: Is it plausible to have a league of Irish cities/small kingdoms that survives and becomes increasingly dominated by the cities and the mercantile classes (so that it doesn't become a kingdom) with a PoD between 1066 and ~1300? Basically, I'm looking for what can in time develop into an Irish/Celtic republic.

William's invasion fails in this TL by the way, and the Anglo-Saxons hold the throne, but Harold Godwinson dies soon after, in case any of that might be relevant.
 
So, I had a really awesome observe game of crusader kings recently, and I have been trying to plausibly recreate some of the key points of this world.

First principle of every medieval alternate history EVER : Reality wasn't a Crusader Kings game.

So, what I am looking for right now is this: Is it plausible to have a league of Irish cities/small kingdoms that survives and becomes increasingly dominated by the cities and the mercantile classes (so that it doesn't become a kingdom) with a PoD between 1066 and ~1300? Basically, I'm looking for what can in time develop into an Irish/Celtic republic.
Norse-Gaël kingdoms of Dublin, Limerick and Cork may what you could look for.
I know, you don't want kingdoms : but the distinction you make between "mercantile class" and feudal or pre-feudal societies is anachronical.

Trade was only one part of much maritime societies : Norse-Gael kingdoms were important trade points and still ruled by a hierarchic, vassalic rulership.
Or italian traders for that matter, had nothing more important than managing to get their hand on good, solid holdings.

If for some reason Brian Boru doesn't manage to clientelise Norse-Gaels at his profit, and that O'Neill continue their decline, Norse-Gaëls kingdoms could form the core of a more maritime minded Ireland.
 
Heh, Paradox most certainly =/= real life, but this game did get my brain turning.

I kinda suspected that the distinction would be incredibly fuzzy, the main thing is that I want it to relatively cleanly transition to a true republic some centuries later. I assume that it will be dominated by the Clans for a long time though.

One question, does anyone know how the Norse-Gaël cities were governed before the Anglo-Normans barged in? I can't seem to find many sources.
 
I kinda suspected that the distinction would be incredibly fuzzy, the main thing is that I want it to relatively cleanly transition to a true republic some centuries later. I assume that it will be dominated by the Clans for a long time though.
The thing is, "true republic" at this time as opposed to monarchy or pre-feudal/feudal context simply doesn't exist.

Town autonomy worked as well independently (as Venice), autonomously (Toulouse between 1189-1212) or totally integrated to a feudal demesne (long list of echevingages for France by exemple).
Furthermore, maritime power didn't equaled prevalence of a mercantile elite (Egypt was one of the main trade centers, and can't really be described as such).

Basically, every self-governing city (acknowledging or not suzerainty from another city or a noble) was in practice a republic, more or less autonom, and not easily distinguishable from its direct suzerain.
Some cities were at the head of the feudal chain, granted, and that makes them more "obvious", but they weren't structurally different on this regard.

If Ireland is spared an English or Scottish invasion (that can't easily be ruled out), it's even more likely that the mediterranean or rheinish/baltic concept of civic republic simply doesn't appear in Ireland, and that maritime kingship stay a thing.

One question, does anyone know how the Norse-Gaël cities were governed before the Anglo-Normans barged in? I can't seem to find many sources.
It's quite unclear, but was more likely comparable to Irish kingship, as Norse-Gaels were culturally really close to their neighbours.
 
Sorry, I think we're talking past each other. I mean that power would remain decentralized enough that it could become a republic centuries down the line. Not until well after the renaissance. In the meantime we're probably looking at something of a collection of maritime kings with some sort of high kingship deal, yes?
 
I mean that power would remain decentralized enough that it could become a republic centuries down the line.
It depends of what you call a republic : if by that you mean an actual modern republic monarch-less (a XVIII definition, basically), I'm not sure.
The time such definition appears, many things can change, including disappearance of these entities.

In the meantime we're probably looking at something of a collection of maritime kings with some sort of high kingship deal, yes?
Well...I don't think it would be that natural as a goal.

Save Brian Boru (that was a bit of an opportunist wanker, if really skilled), the (very technical) supremacy of O'Neill wasn't too much troubled at the time and Norse-Gael were fine about what they did : raiding/trading with Britain, assure an hinterland in Ireland.

In fact, in order to make them lasting, a lasting desintegration of irish high-kingship and the absence of hegemonic Irish rulers would be probably needed (of course, it would make them prone to be invaded).

I imagine, though, that Norse-Gael kings could try that, but in the process their kingdoms would cease to be "maritime states" to become totally insular.

That said, I could see the Kingdom of Dublin having sort of primacy over more small Norse-Gael kingdoms.
 
While the scenario described in the OP is quite specific, the balance of historical evidence suggests it wasn't all that unlikely.

Not only were several key requirements true in reality, they also proved incredibly resilient. Before Brian Boru, Waterford and Dublin were major centers in the Atlantic world, a major focus for activity of all sorts from Normandy to Iceland. After Clontarf that cohesion was shattered yet at the time of Strongbow's arrival more than 150 years later they still retained much of their Norse character. Likewise, in the late medieval period, Cork, Limerick and Galway (second in importance only to Dublin at that time) remained defiantly English while under Gaelic domination (e.g. paying 'black rents') for even longer periods.

It's hard to think of other examples in history of such tiny colonies retaining their identity for so long and in such conditions while so acutely lacking external support as in these cases. An explanation can be found in the relationship between city and country in Ireland at that time.

Gaelic lords with expansionist or centralising aims contrary to the interests of his allies and underkings would destroy themselves, so they were forced to extract what they could from the cities instead of developing them and their trade (e.g. like the Scottish burghs). Any attempt to expand urban control into the countryside on the other hand could not be successful without creating a desert of the lands they relied upon for their economic wellbeing. The result was a relationship that curiously mixed symbiosis and parasitism and which maintained the cultural distinctiveness of the cities in the most difficult circumstances.

All that's required to take a huge leap towards the goal of the OP is for someone to realise that the interests of individual towns apply equally well to them all together. Viking or English characters are the obvious candidates, but also imaginable is an experiment by an Irish High King to leverage the united power of the cities against his enemies backfiring on him.
 
Any attempt to expand urban control into the countryside on the other hand could not be successful without creating a desert of the lands they relied upon for their economic wellbeing.

Just to clarify, this is because of the mobile nature of wealth in the Irish countryside. As proven by the gaelicisation of successive waves of Welsh/English colonists in Munster and Leinster, you can't just organise an advancing wave of tillage based society in these circumstances; the serfs can't be protected from their enemies and the existence of the open frontier destroys their lords' power over them also.
 
Top