Ireland never occupied by England

1189 would be the best time for the Irish to push the English off the island all together. King Henry II was in the middle of a civil war with his son Richard (King Richard I).

Best case scenario for the Irish is that they rebel at the start of July just a few days before Richard defeats Henry's army. IOTL Richard was made the heir to the throne after the battle and Henry died two days later.

So I would have to say that 1189 is the best time for the Irish revolt.
 
1189 would be the best time for the Irish to push the English off the island all together. King Henry II was in the middle of a civil war with his son Richard (King Richard I).

Best case scenario for the Irish is that they rebel at the start of July just a few days before Richard defeats Henry's army. IOTL Richard was made the heir to the throne after the battle and Henry died two days later.

So I would have to say that 1189 is the best time for the Irish revolt.

Would not a better POD for the Irish be that Henry II never accepts the Earl of Leinster's position, deciding that his resources are better spent elsewhere or something (or perhaps the Earl actually fails to catch him after spending something like two months chasing him across half of western Europe), and Henry then punishes Strongbow for his involvement, necessitating a pull-out, or at least meaning that when Strongbow's descendants are Gaelicised, they have all links with England cut and the Kings of England see no just cause to declare Ireland theirs? Seems to me that the English are always going to keep coming back unless their claim to Ireland never materialises in the first place...
 
Would not a better POD for the Irish be that Henry II never accepts the Earl of Leinster's position, deciding that his resources are better spent elsewhere or something (or perhaps the Earl actually fails to catch him after spending something like two months chasing him across half of western Europe), and Henry then punishes Strongbow for his involvement, necessitating a pull-out, or at least meaning that when Strongbow's descendants are Gaelicised, they have all links with England cut and the Kings of England see no just cause to declare Ireland theirs? Seems to me that the English are always going to keep coming back unless their claim to Ireland never materialises in the first place...

The English are always going to keep coming back to Ireland unless the Irish can push them out and then keep them out. England after the civil war between Henry II and Richard is weak, in debt, and Richard has already committed to the Crusades (he took the cross in 1187). If the Irish rebel after or during the war Richard may decide to head to Jerusalem regardless.

The key is if Richard would try to crush the rebellion and then go on crusade. The Irish would first have to beat the English occupiers and then prepare for a possible invasion by Richard which may or may not come. The Irish are not going to ally themselves with John (they hated him to no end) so Richard will not have that to worry about plus Geoffrey is dead by this point as well. So there is no one left that would really threaten Richard's power.
 
If the kings of England do not have a good claim on Ireland and Ireland manages to become a unified state; than I see possibilities for an independent Ireland. Although this doesn't exclude the possibility, that there will be periods, that Ireland will be in the English sphere of influence; but Ireland could end up joining an ATL Auld alliance.
 
Assuming Ireland stays united and manages to avoid a valid English claim what impact would that have on the English invasions of Wales and Scotland? Would it be possible that Ireland could get pulled in as a more immediate backer to both the Welsh and the Scots? I know Robert the Bruce sent his armies to conquer Ireland during the Scottish War of Independence for more or less the same reason. Would it be possible for that to develop as a result of circumstances?

IMO if that ends up happening you could see a much weaker England worried about threats on their immediate doorstep and left unable to challenge France in the Hundred Years' War or establish itself as a prominent power in Europe.
 
I thinking the first question that needs to be answered is what would Richard do. He has just defeated Henry II, became King a few days later when Henry II died, and has taken the cross and plans on going on going to the Mid-East asap.

Would Richard attempt to crush the Irish after they have pushed the English out or would he ignore them and continue plans to take Jerusalem?
 

Valdemar II

Banned
You need Ireland to create a unified centralised state, before the English have a chance to invade, if you want them to survive.
 
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