Ireland joins WW2 and reunifies

Sealion being successful...
Apparently Éamon de Valera promised to give the RAF access to Irish air bases in such a scenario although I wonder if he would actually go through with it if Sealion really happened. I doubt he would get much public support for something so suicidal, nor would Ireland last long against a German invasion.
 
Apparently Éamon de Valera promised to give the RAF access to Irish air bases in such a scenario although I wonder if he would actually go through with it if Sealion really happened. I doubt he would get much public support for something so suicidal, nor would Ireland last long against a German invasion.

The Irish and British Governments had already agreed that Ireland would aid the UK in the event of an invasion, plans had been drawn up for such a situation I think.
 
Swedes probably would want the Germans to win in the East at all events and hard to blame them really. Apparently in occupied Poland 1939-41 people thought themselves lucky to be in the zone occupied by the Nazis rather than that occupied by the USSR. That is how bad Stalinist Russia was. David Garnett recounts in his history of the PWE how leaflets were dropped on Russian and Ukrainian troops fighting for the Germans telling them that if they surrendered the Allies would ensure their repatriation to Russia/Ukraine . This had the unexpected result of stiffening their resolve and making them fight even harder!
Turning to the Irish situation, neither side has a monopoly of heroes or villains and, from my reading of the subject, both traditions have more to be ashamed of them to take pride in. Bigotry, intimidation, political murder, blind eye being turned to clerics abusing their position, tendency to regard the "cause" as a personal piggy bank, murderous internal feuds common to both nationalists and unionists in Ireland.

That’s it in a nutshell
 
The Irish and British Governments had already agreed that Ireland would aid the UK in the event of an invasion, plans had been drawn up for such a situation I think.

Would he go through with it and not renege on it if the feared German invasion was somehow successful? Eduard Hempel reported to Berlin in July 1940 that "From various indications in talks with Walshe and Boland I assume that the Irish government may be placing hope in future German interest in the maintenance and completion of an entirely independent Irish state." which indicates that the Irish government was considering hedging their bets a bit when it appeared that Britain was going to lose the war.
 
Apparently Éamon de Valera promised to give the RAF access to Irish air bases in such a scenario although I wonder if he would actually go through with it if Sealion really happened. I doubt he would get much public support for something so suicidal, nor would Ireland last long against a German invasion.

Actual fact Sunderland’s flying out of Lough Erne flew over sovereign Irish airspace. British and American destroyersusing the Londaindoire naval base used the deep water (Irish Republic) side of Lough Foyle to manoeuvre into & out of the base. British & American troops stationed in the North during the war were discreetly told, upon meeting the Garda, they were on the wrong side of the border.
 
Actual fact Sunderland’s flying out of Lough Erne flew over sovereign Irish airspace. British and American destroyersusing the Londaindoire naval base used the deep water (Irish Republic) side of Lough Foyle to manoeuvre into & out of the base. British & American troops stationed in the North during the war were discreetly told, upon meeting the Garda, they were on the wrong side of the border.

As I've said we were pro Allies in action, like returning Allied service men and interning German ones, or the first weather forecast for D Day coming from an Irish Weather station, or sharing of intel with the UK, u boat locations etc, as for Lough Foyle, they don't have a choice, the Lough is ONLY navigable on the Irish side hence why to this day it's still a terrortial dispute as the UK claims all the lough and Ireland refuses.
 
Would he go through with it and not renege on it if the feared German invasion was somehow successful? Eduard Hempel reported to Berlin in July 1940 that "From various indications in talks with Walshe and Boland I assume that the Irish government may be placing hope in future German interest in the maintenance and completion of an entirely independent Irish state." which indicates that the Irish government was considering hedging their bets a bit when it appeared that Britain was going to lose the war.

Dev was many things, utterly stupid wasn't one of them (stubborn as mule is different), it's no different than the reported plans of what the state would do in the event of WW3 which including throwing neutrality out the window.
 
I do wonder what would have happened in the south if the US had put major pressure on the Dublin government after Dec 8, 1941...flooding the south with second and third generation sons of immigrants and pouring a whole bunch of money in for infrastructure improvements and potentially breaking the power of the Church a generation or two sooner...
 
Dev was many things, utterly stupid wasn't one of them (stubborn as mule is different), it's no different than the reported plans of what the state would do in the event of WW3 which including throwing neutrality out the window.
Ireland wouldn't last long against a Germany which had managed to conquer Britain, it would probably be quickly occupied and an IRA-Ailtirí collaboration administration set up. It was a fear shared by de Valera and David Gray that Germany would invade NI and proclaim themselves as liberators.
 
I do wonder what would have happened in the south if the US had put major pressure on the Dublin government after Dec 8, 1941...flooding the south with second and third generation sons of immigrants and pouring a whole bunch of money in for infrastructure improvements and potentially breaking the power of the Church a generation or two sooner...

It would certainly alter the Republic entirely even if the DF was only deployed in minor roles in the War but again there's more than a few issues to overcome. There was a Michael Collins mini TL that had that play out.
 
Ireland wouldn't last long against a Germany which had managed to conquer Britain, it would probably be quickly occupied and an IRA-Ailtirí collaboration administration set up. It was a fear shared by de Valera and David Gray that Germany would invade NI and proclaim themselves as liberators.

That's the entire point of why the Irish considered a Sealion as something that would bring them into the war as they knew exactly what would happen if the UK was overrun.
 
I think this thread wandered well off topic for a while!

Given that the Treaty Ports were a sticking point, what change would be necessary for them still to be available to the UK in 1939? Would it have been acceptable for a clause that they could be reactivated in the event of war? The treaty allowed for the use of aircraft based at the ports to patrol the western approaches, rather than their use as anchorage (important though that was as well).
 
Would he go through with it and not renege on it if the feared German invasion was somehow successful? Eduard Hempel reported to Berlin in July 1940 that "From various indications in talks with Walshe and Boland I assume that the Irish government may be placing hope in future German interest in the maintenance and completion of an entirely independent Irish state." which indicates that the Irish government was considering hedging their bets a bit when it appeared that Britain was going to lose the war.
They had made plans up to the point of appointing Florence O'Donahue as the man to lead the Irish Resistance should the Germans invade according to Euan O'Halpern.
 
I think this thread wandered well off topic for a while!

Given that the Treaty Ports were a sticking point, what change would be necessary for them still to be available to the UK in 1939? Would it have been acceptable for a clause that they could be reactivated in the event of war? The treaty allowed for the use of aircraft based at the ports to patrol the western approaches, rather than their use as anchorage (important though that was as well).

For the UK to refuse to give them up during the talks in '38? However it comes back to the state of affairs of the harbours, again you'd need substantial new land taken in for land based aircraft (not just to patrol the Approaches but also to protect the bases) and the old WW1 Flying boat stations rebuilt (apart from the slips), AAA, Radar, replacing/refitting the Coastal guns along with as I've mentioned substantial works done to upgrade them to modern standards to be off any use. Again by this stage the main yard in Cobh maybe disabled (don't know when whatever muppet did that), the manpower that supported it during WW1 is gone...
 
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