Ireland in the Allies during WWII

May 31 was a Friday preceding a Bank Holiday weekend. Just after midnight, the sound of approaching aircraft was heard in Dublin along with the sounds of bombs exploding in the distance, searchlights began sweeping the skies for the planes. At about 00:30, anti-aircraft batteries began shooting at the targets; this was in keeping with Ireland’s stated policy of armed neutrality. At 01:30, the first bombs began falling on Dublin. The bombs hit a mostly working-class area of Dublin, including the areas of the North Richmond Street, Rutland Place, Phoenix Park, the Dublin Zoo, and most especially hard hit, the North Strand. The raid claimed the lives of 29 persons, including Douglas Hyde the president at the time, injured 90, destroyed or damaged approximately 300 houses, and left 400 persons homeless. Áras an Uachtaráin, the official residence of Irish President was greatly dmaged damaged.

On 5 June, a mass funeral was held for the President; Éamon de Valera, the Taoiseach, and other government officials attended. De Valera made a speech in the Dáil Éireann on the same day:

Members of the Dáil desire to be directly associated with the expression of sympathy already tendered by the Government on behalf of the nation to the great number of our citizens who have been so cruelly bereaved by the recent bombing. Although a complete survey has not yet been possible, the latest report which I have received is that 27 persons were killed outright or subsequently died including our President; 45 were wounded or received other serious bodily injury and are still in hospital; 25 houses were completely destroyed and 300 so damaged as to be unfit for habitation, leaving many hundreds of our people homeless. It has been for all our citizens an occasion of profound sorrow in which the members of this House have fully shared. Thus I see no further course of action than an immediate declaration of War against the German aggressors. May God guide us in this desicion.
 
de Valera becomes instantly unpopular with the Irish and gets thrown out of office - and another election gets called.
 
I don't think deValera would do this. He was fairly adamant in his neutrality, remember that Ireland actually sent condolences to the German embassy following the death of Hitler. That said, I don't think that the government was actually pro-Nazis so much as it was serious about being strictly neutral. And even in thier strict neutrality, they were pro-Allies. Large numbers of Irishmen joined the British military and weren't stopped, so they had tacit approval to do so, and Ireland still traded with the UK, they didn't with Germany.

Still, it's hard to imagine what extra effect Irelands joining the war would have on the actual conflict. The aircraft based in the Republic could make the war of the Atlantic a little easier, but once long-range aircraft were developed, this would be just like OTL. I can't imagine many more Irishmen would fight in the war, like I said a large amount joined the British military IRL.

The real difference would come after the war. Ireland would get a larger slice of the Marshall Plan pie. This could boost Irelands economy earlier, integrating it with the US. This could have all kinds of butterflies later, maybe no EU membership later on. There's an outside chance Ireland could even become a commonwealth of the US, more to detach themselves from the UK than anything.
 
Ireland joining the war on Germany wouldn't make much difference in the war effot. At this time it was a poor backwater of Western Europe. As Patros said it's bases would be usefull in the battle of the Atlantic and for Britain escaping blockade by u boat but other than that no real use in the war effot. However if Germany bombed Ireland, a strictly neutral country and with no reason, it would be very usefull to Churchill. He could use it to say to the Americans and Soviets that what ever treatys you sign or even if your completely neutral Germany will try to destroy you. An attack on Ireland would also increase pressure on the American President ( i forget which one) to enter the war or provide more war supplies.

After the war i can see that Ireland would get more marshal plan money and maybe break its economic dependency on Britain. With this broken i could see Ireland entering the EU at the first chance, maybe even at the treaty of Rome signing in 1957. Or it could go another way and become more friendly towards Britain again due to them defeating Hitler together (with other nations). We could see an Ireland that is still in the commonwealth.
I can safely say that Ireland would never join the USA ever. All the Irish that wanted to be in America are already there! And anyway any European nation being willingly annexed into the USA is ASB. It annoys me when Americans say that Ireland, Britain, France, Canada or Australia willingly joining the USA is a serious suggestion and is not ASB.
 
If De Valera had decided to join the allies he could have justified it based on the heavy bombing of the North (part of Ireland's national territory according to the constitution - written by De Valera).

I wonder how much of a difference having bases in South West Ireland would make to the Battle of the Atlantic.
 
Ireland's main value to the Allies would have been in the Battle of the Atlantic- air and escort bases in southern & western Ireland would have been pretty useful, especially for narrowing the gap in air coverage and covering the Western Approaches, assuming that the Allies had forces to deploy there & basing RN & RAF units in Ireland wouldn't have caused too much friction with the locals. Probably would have a measurable in not significant effect on the U-boat war, increasing German sub losses and decreasing British merchant losses to some small but significant degree, although I'm not sure how much. Still, anything along those lines would really help Britain. Once long-range fighter aircraft become available, being able to operate them out of Ireland might make it a bit easier to counter German anti-shipping air operations in the Bay of Biscay as well.

The Irish themselves don't start out with much to offer militarily- IIRC the Irish armed forces in OTL WW2 were a battalion or two worth of infantry, a couple dozen old fighters, and a few PT boats, and I'm not sure how much of an army, air force, or navy Ireland could support during wartime, although they'd probably get some equipment upgrades courtesy of the US or Britain in such a scenario- maybe some more modern fighters, maritime patrol aircraft, and escort vessels.
 
I don't think deValera would do this. He was fairly adamant in his neutrality, remember that Ireland actually sent condolences to the German embassy following the death of Hitler.


Peter,

Something he somehow failed to do when FDR died. :rolleyes:

I don't see a bombing raid changing deValera's mind about neutrality. The illegitimate son of Juan Vivion de Valero was nothing if not a stubborn, grudge holding prick.

Now, if deValera wasn't Taioseach when WW2 occurred, Ireland could have played a role.

Still, it's hard to imagine what extra effect Irelands joining the war would have on the actual conflict.

Agreed, an Irish "army" wouldn't be big enough to make much of a difference.

The aircraft based in the Republic could make the war of the Atlantic a little easier, but once long-range aircraft were developed, this would be just like OTL.

We'll have to disagree on that one.

Having access to Irish bases and ports would have greatly effected the Battle of the Atlantic. The "Air Gap" would have been closed much faster, the air patrols over Biscay mounted earlier, surface escorts would have greater endurance, and all of it done much earlier in the war. The Allies wouldn't have to wait until long range aircraft became available to begin defeating the U-boats.

The real difference would come after the war. Ireland would get a larger slice of the Marshall Plan pie.

Agreed again. EU funding was crucial to Ireland becoming the "Celtic Tiger".


Bill
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
And many more Irishmen would be dead instead as a result of dropping neutrality..


I doubt that the Germans would have bothered to spend air assets on bombing Irish cities. So no, there probably wouldn't have been a negative balance on the Allied casualty list. Ireland wasn't in the same position as say Sweden or Switserland. Both those countries were 'forced' to stay neutral or they would have been invaded and conquered by the Germans. Ireland was safe.
 
Ireland could easily have provided a corps in manpower, @50,000 strong as it effectively did in terms of the 'Wild Geese' volunteering for service with the British and could certainly have persuaded the British or (later) the Americans to help with equipment and especially heavy weaponry or tanks.

More likely two or three combat brigades would be formed tops, with the rest as specialists and support.

Likewise an Irish Air Force with a wing or two, 72 fighters per wing, would be quite plausible.

Nothing overwhelming, obviously, but every bit helps.

Most important would be the effect on ASW activities and convoy protection as this adds several hundred miles of air coverage against u-boats and can potentially shave several hundred miles off the trip as the u-boats never achieved much against the ferries on the Irish sea so the most valuable cargos and any ships getting the word that u-boats are especially active can dive into an Irish port and unload.
 

Ak-84

Banned
Ireland in WWII will be be absolutly crucial in 40,41,42 as far as the Battle of the Atlantic is concerned.

As for Ireland's army, I suspect that the Irish Army could raise two or so divisons, which would most likely fight as part of the British Army. The old 10 and 16 Divisions from WWI could be reformed. Though considering the slaugter that was suffered by British infantry in the '44-45 campaign, I find it hard to believe that they could have done more than keep those two divisions in combat.
 
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