Iowa protection

That... Is not the full story. While the test's there were two of them were at point blank range they had thier charges reduced to simulate firing at range. (This is how big guns are tested due to the fact that trying to do armout pentration tests at realistic battle ranges would be stupidly expensive, dangerous and have much less control of variables). About 15,000 yards for test 1 and 20,000 yards for test 2.

The tests were for zero obliquity. The turret face was sloped at 45 degrees

Test 1
1992 ft per second (10-15,000 yards with 6-10 degree fall for 26-23" of penetration)

Test 2
1707 ft per second (20-25,000 yards with 15-21 degree fall for 20-17" penetration)

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.php

On the tests:

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-040.php

At about 40,000 yards, the U.S. Navy 16"/50 firing a 16" Mark 8 Mod 6 AP projectile (the later Mod 7 and Mod 8 designs were post-WWII, so I usually do not count them and they were no better ballistically, to my knowledge) will hit at about 45° downward angle and 1607 feet/second (489.8 m/sec). Just as with a point blank hit at 2500 feet/second (762 m/sec) and 45° obliquity, this hit too will barely hole the plate as the projectile is hitting at 0° (normal) obliquity, though not completely penetrate it. Any slight barrel wear will lower the muzzle and striking velocities and no holing will occur at these or any other ranges, as mentioned. However, this is so far above any real fighting range (even with radar it is hard to see the target due to the earth's curvature interfering, especially in any kind of imperfect seeing conditions) that I do not even consider it in my computations, while putting the gun barrel up to almost touching the enemy turret is also a pipe dream in real life! Thus, no holing or complete penetrations, ever, though possibly some cracking of the plate and possible jamming of the turret if the crack-off plate piece is dislodged badly enough.

Therefore, these plates are the only warship armor plates that could not be completely penetrated by any gun ever put on a warship when installed leaning back at 45°, as they were in the actual turrets!!! Even to completely hole the plate all the way through at that inclination requires a brand new 16"/50 Mark 7 or German 38cm SK C/34 gun at point-blank range firing the latest versions of their respective AP projectiles; it might be cracked at a lower striking velocity, but no hole put entirely through it! And they said guns had completely overmatched all armor - not so!!!
 
The tests were for zero obliquity. The turret face was sloped at 45 degrees
I never mentioned anything about the obliquity. I merely poineted out that the guns had reduced charges too simulate firing at range and that saying they were firing at "point blank" range didn't nesserily mean that it was. Thru I've never actually seen any penetration test's that account for obiquiity and makes me wonder if any nation's took expected obliquity angles into account during third penetration tests (At least no British are American ones which are the only ones I've been able to find).
 
Fish in a barrel or not, none of that except slowing down actually made Yamashiro an easier target. So, no, you don’t get to dismiss West Virginia’s performance out of hand like that.

And once again you’re citing the failure of the ship to hit a destroyer-sized target. Which is what Sendai is, frankly. Yeah, didn’t mention that she was trying to swat a destroyer group with her main battery, huh? I don’t think any battleship did well swatting destroyers with the main battery, it’s why so many navies still stuck 6” guns on their battleships.

And don’t cite Second Narvik, please, the British destroyers did most of the legwork against their German counterparts and only one 15” shell hit a ship.


You do know American battleship doctrine, at least prewar, emphasized medium range (17k-21k yards) as the decisive range, that they planned multiple tactics and maneuvers to help close through the long-range band (full-fleet about-face, destroyer attack backed up by cruisers, potentially even a well-timed air strike) and only practiced extreme-range gunnery for disruption, to get the range early, and maybe get a golden BB? They did not plan to stay at long or extreme range, that was a Japanese thing.


Again you seem to be somewhat unrealistic and too much crediting a mediocre USN large gunnery practice in reality, continuing to quote artificial stats and theoretical circumstances. Fact remains: DD's are certainly not much smaller targets than a cruiser in WW2, still being between 100 and 150 meters in length, compared to a cruiser roughly between 150 and 200 metes, depending on the class of ship involved, while most BB's were around the 200 to some 220 meters, most of the time, except the newer ones, which were not available in large numbers in Japan to start with. This meaning: if a BB cannot engage, with a reasonable change of at least straddling it, a DD with main guns at long to medium range, it also cannot engage a cruiser, of BB! This is the main flaw in USN Battleships through the entire war period, as the USN did neve have experience in real naval battles before WW2, with modern Dreadnought type BB's and only could do theoretical testings, without the experience gained by nations whose navies did clash at sea with Dreadnought type ships in the Great War. Doctrine is nice to have, experience tells much more.

So your statement is flawed by stating an Iowa, or other modern USN BB cannot engage a ship that is 113 meters long (Kagero class), or even a Naka class cruiser of 153 meters, meaning the shelldispersion of the 16 inch is more than 153 meters at least, which is horrible to say the least, as that would indicate guns that are completely incapable of landing a shell where it was planned to be. It is a know fact the USN 16 inch/50 Mk.7 (121.519 tons (including breech)) was affected by the light construction of the barrel, causing significant droop and resulting in flexing when fired, compared to the not used heavier barrel of the 16 inch/50 Mk.2 (128.15 tons), originally build of the Lexington and canceled South Dakota classes of the early 20's. Also note the British 15 inch/42 Mk 1 did score a sollid hit in the first salvo fired at 29,000 yards and HMS Warspite's fire was compact and straddling the target (as was Malaya's untill getting out of range) from the beginning, something that is hardly said about the performace of USN BB gunnery in the war. At Truk both USS Iowa and New Jersey were shooting at ships already damaged by airatacks (DD Maikaze hit by rockets from stafing fighters, Auxilliary's Katori hit by a torpedo from carrierplanes and Akagi maru hit by multiple torpedoes and bombs, sinking shortly after the Iowa and New Jersey started shooting, though she was not the target for the BB's!) Both targets for the BB's (Katori and Maikaze survived the BB's misserable gunnerypractice, only to be sunk by veteran cruisers
USS Miniapolis and New Orleans, mwho did score hits at least.)

As for Oldendorff's line, The USS West Virginia shared hits on the Yamashiro and Mogami with USS Callifornia, Tennessee, Maryland and Mississippi. USS Pennsylvania also present was unable to engage at the time, due to blocking of sight and out of date electronics.
Quote:
Six battleships formed a battle line; the Pearl Harbor veteran West Virginia was the first to open fire a minute later, scoring at least one hit with 16-inch (410 mm) shells in the first 20,800-meter (22,700 yd) salvo,[38] followed by Tennessee and California. Hampered by older radar equipment, Maryland joined the fight late, Pennsylvania never fired,[39] and Mississippi managed to fire exactly one salvo—the last of the engagement.
Yamashiro increased speed to 15 knots in an attempt to escape the trap,[45] but she had already been hit by two to four torpedoes, and after two more torpedo hits near the starboard engine room, likely fired by the USS Bennion,[46] she was listing 45 degrees to port. Shinoda gave the command to abandon ship, but neither he nor Nishimura made any attempt to leave the conning tower as the ship capsized within five minutes and quickly sank, stern first, vanishing from radar between 04:19 and 04:21.

This would suggest the fire from Oldendorf's line did score a number of hits on an already badly damage and flooding BB, unable to do crippling damage to her, or sink her outright. If you take into acount Yamashiro already had severe flooding due to earlier torpedohits, (also flooding the aft magazines, reducing her guns to only 6 main 14 inch riffles), only capable of barely 15 knots and in confined waters, it is surprising the vastly superior numbers of large calliber guns on Oldendorffs line did so surprisingly little, other than mostly cosmetic damage and setting fire to her supperstructure. Two things might have played into this: The Oldendorff group was supposed to be supporting against groundtargets, so the loadout of ammunition might have been in play here, or the gunnery was not too compact, due to allied forces at close range in the way, as the DD's and cruisers also were in the same area at this time, meaning friendly fire a serious likelyhood.

Basically WW2 period USN BB' gunnery was: "Fire enough shit at the wall, some of it will stick". This is certainly true, as in an unequal fight with vastly superior numbers it will work, though it is not economical. Only a power with a worldclass industrial-, economical- and manpower backing it can do things like this, which is why the USA were so impotant in WW2 in the first place.
 
Again you seem to be somewhat unrealistic and too much crediting a mediocre USN large gunnery practice in reality, continuing to quote artificial stats and theoretical circumstances. Fact remains: DD's are certainly not much smaller targets than a cruiser in WW2, still being between 100 and 150 meters in length, compared to a cruiser roughly between 150 and 200 metes, depending on the class of ship involved, while most BB's were around the 200 to some 220 meters, most of the time, except the newer ones, which were not available in large numbers in Japan to start with. This meaning: if a BB cannot engage, with a reasonable change of at least straddling it, a DD with main guns at long to medium range, it also cannot engage a cruiser, of BB! This is the main flaw in USN Battleships through the entire war period, as the USN did neve have experience in real naval battles before WW2, with modern Dreadnought type BB's and only could do theoretical testings, without the experience gained by nations whose navies did clash at sea with Dreadnought type ships in the Great War. Doctrine is nice to have, experience tells much more.

So your statement is flawed by stating an Iowa, or other modern USN BB cannot engage a ship that is 113 meters long (Kagero class), or even a Naka class cruiser of 153 meters, meaning the shelldispersion of the 16 inch is more than 153 meters at least, which is horrible to say the least, as that would indicate guns that are completely incapable of landing a shell where it was planned to be. It is a know fact the USN 16 inch/50 Mk.7 (121.519 tons (including breech)) was affected by the light construction of the barrel, causing significant droop and resulting in flexing when fired, compared to the not used heavier barrel of the 16 inch/50 Mk.2 (128.15 tons), originally build of the Lexington and canceled South Dakota classes of the early 20's. Also note the British 15 inch/42 Mk 1 did score a sollid hit in the first salvo fired at 29,000 yards and HMS Warspite's fire was compact and straddling the target (as was Malaya's untill getting out of range) from the beginning, something that is hardly said about the performace of USN BB gunnery in the war. At Truk both USS Iowa and New Jersey were shooting at ships already damaged by airatacks (DD Maikaze hit by rockets from stafing fighters, Auxilliary's Katori hit by a torpedo from carrierplanes and Akagi maru hit by multiple torpedoes and bombs, sinking shortly after the Iowa and New Jersey started shooting, though she was not the target for the BB's!) Both targets for the BB's (Katori and Maikaze survived the BB's misserable gunnerypractice, only to be sunk by veteran cruisers
USS Miniapolis and New Orleans, mwho did score hits at least.)
Citation on Warspite hitting first-salvo at 29,000 yards. Everything I’ve read states that she only scored a hit at 26,000 yards, and it was in no way a first-salvo hit.

Citation on the barrel droop for the Mark 7. If it is a known fact, it should be straightforward to find something stating so.

And yet, every Navy in the world disagreed with you regarding hitting destroyers with battleship guns. Nobody counted on it. Which is why everyone mounted extensive secondary batteries on their battleships and many, including the US, Britain, and Italy, built light cruisers whose job was solely to hose down incoming destroyers with 6” shellfire.

Your size numbers are decidedly off, too. Even the Mogador class, probably the largest destroyers of the war, weren’t 150 meters long, and didn’t even come close. The vast majority of destroyers topped out under 400 feet (120 meters), including every Japanese prewar destroyer. So I reject your size comparison.

Also, IIRC, the issue of hitting destroyers with a BB’s main battery is one more of fire control limitations than gun dispersion, but I need to confirm that. Edit: it’s a combination of the small size and the fact that destroyers are going to be wildly maneuvering where cruisers and battleships aren’t. DDs don’t care about throwing off their own firing solutions, after all, and even American fire control can only compensate so much for such wild maneuvers.

As for Truk: again, Iowa and New Jersey were firing at Katori and Nowaki at very extreme ranges. According to CombinedFleet.com, Nowaki was engaged at 35,000 yards - and was straddled first salvo. That she escaped is, IMO, no knock against the Americans because she was faster and already at 35,000 yards when fired upon. CombinedFleet further claims that Iowa straddled Katori with all eight of her salvos, probably at similar ranges.

And no, Minneapolis and New Orleans only bagged Maikaze. Katori was sunk either by Iowa or her torpedo damage.

And yes, straddling is a desirable result even without hits; keep straddling the target, and you’re going to get hits just by sheer probability.

As for Oldendorff's line, The USS West Virginia shared hits on the Yamashiro and Mogami with USS Callifornia, Tennessee, Maryland and Mississippi. USS Pennsylvania also present was unable to engage at the time, due to blocking of sight and out of date electronics.
Quote:
Six battleships formed a battle line; the Pearl Harbor veteran West Virginia was the first to open fire a minute later, scoring at least one hit with 16-inch (410 mm) shells in the first 20,800-meter (22,700 yd) salvo,[38] followed by Tennessee and California. Hampered by older radar equipment, Maryland joined the fight late, Pennsylvania never fired,[39] and Mississippi managed to fire exactly one salvo—the last of the engagement.
Yamashiro increased speed to 15 knots in an attempt to escape the trap,[45] but she had already been hit by two to four torpedoes, and after two more torpedo hits near the starboard engine room, likely fired by the USS Bennion,[46] she was listing 45 degrees to port. Shinoda gave the command to abandon ship, but neither he nor Nishimura made any attempt to leave the conning tower as the ship capsized within five minutes and quickly sank, stern first, vanishing from radar between 04:19 and 04:21.

This would suggest the fire from Oldendorf's line did score a number of hits on an already badly damage and flooding BB, unable to do crippling damage to her, or sink her outright. If you take into acount Yamashiro already had severe flooding due to earlier torpedohits, (also flooding the aft magazines, reducing her guns to only 6 main 14 inch riffles), only capable of barely 15 knots and in confined waters, it is surprising the vastly superior numbers of large calliber guns on Oldendorffs line did so surprisingly little, other than mostly cosmetic damage and setting fire to her supperstructure. Two things might have played into this: The Oldendorff group was supposed to be supporting against groundtargets, so the loadout of ammunition might have been in play here, or the gunnery was not too compact, due to allied forces at close range in the way, as the DD's and cruisers also were in the same area at this time, meaning friendly fire a serious likelyhood
West Virginia still achieved first-salvo hits. So, again, that the shellfire didn’t outright sink Yamashiro is rather irrelevant to my argument.

Also, nice job not quoting an entire paragraph.

The main bombardment lasted 18 minutes, and Yamashiro was the only target for seven of them.[41] The first rounds hit the forecastle and pagoda mast, and soon the entire battleship appeared to be ablaze. Yamashiro's two forward turrets targeted her assailants, and the secondary armament targeted the American destroyers plaguing Mogami and the destroyer Asagumo.[42] The ship continued firing in all directions, but was not able to target the battleships with the other four operable 14-inch guns of her amidships turrets until almost 04:00, after turning west.[43] There was a big explosion at 04:04, possibly from one of the middle turrets. Yamashiro increased her firing rate between 04:03 and 04:09, despite the widespread fires and damage, and was hit during this time near the starboard engine room by a torpedo. By 04:09, her speed was back up to 12 knots, and Nishimura wired to Kurita: "We proceed till totally annihilated. I have definitely accomplished my mission as pre-arranged. Please rest assured."[44] At the same time, Oldendorf issued a brief cease-fire order to the entire formation after hearing that the destroyer Albert W. Grant was taking friendly fire, and the Japanese ships also ceased fire.[45]

The key part here is timing: between West Virginia opening fire and Oldendorf issuing the cease-fire, only sixteen minutes passed. In total, this was a 27-minute engagement. Not a whole lot of time to sink a target like Yamashiro.
 
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Citation on Warspite hitting first-salvo at 29,000 yards. Everything I’ve read states that she only scored a hit at 26,000 yards, and it was in no way a first-salvo hit.

Citation on the barrel droop for the Mark 7. If it is a known fact, it should be straightforward to find something stating so.

And yet, every Navy in the world disagreed with you regarding hitting destroyers with battleship guns. Nobody counted on it. Which is why everyone mounted extensive secondary batteries on their battleships and many, including the US, Britain, and Italy, built light cruisers whose job was solely to hose down incoming destroyers with 6” shellfire.

Your size numbers are decidedly off, too. Even the Mogador class, probably the largest destroyers of the war, weren’t 150 meters long, and didn’t even come close. The vast majority of destroyers topped out under 400 feet (120 meters), including every Japanese prewar destroyer. So I reject your size comparison.

Also, IIRC, the issue of hitting destroyers with a BB’s main battery is one more of fire control limitations than gun dispersion, but I need to confirm that. Edit: it’s a combination of the small size and the fact that destroyers are going to be wildly maneuvering where cruisers and battleships aren’t. DDs don’t care about throwing off their own firing solutions, after all, and even American fire control can only compensate so much for such wild maneuvers.

As for Truk: again, Iowa and New Jersey were firing at Katori and Nowaki at very extreme ranges. According to CombinedFleet.com, Nowaki was engaged at 35,000 yards - and was straddled first salvo. That she escaped is, IMO, no knock against the Americans because she was faster and already at 35,000 yards when fired upon. CombinedFleet further claims that Iowa straddled Katori with all eight of her salvos, probably at similar ranges.

And no, Minneapolis and New Orleans only bagged Maikaze. Katori was sunk either by Iowa or her torpedo damage.

And yes, straddling is a desirable result even without hits; keep straddling the target, and you’re going to get hits just by sheer probability.


West Virginia still achieved first-salvo hits. So, again, that the shellfire didn’t outright sink Yamashiro is rather irrelevant to my argument.

Also, nice job not quoting an entire paragraph.



The key part here is timing: between West Virginia opening fire and Oldendorf issuing the cease-fire, only sixteen minutes passed. In total, this was a 27-minute engagement. Not a whole lot of time to sink a target like Yamashiro.

I stand corected in the range HMS Warspite hit Guilio Caesar. Mistyped 26,000 for 29,000 yards on numerrical keyboard. Sorry fo that. By the way, the hit was scored after eight minutes after the Italian battleship started the engagement, HMS Warspite did not respond directly, though one of her first salvo's produced the hit, after she stated to shoot back at both Italian BB's.
Quote:
The two Italian battleships maneuvered to shell Warspite in a joined effort. The Italian Battleship Giulio Cesare opened fire at a range of 26,400 meters while her sister ship - Conte di Cavour - held up, the Italian strategy being to have only one ship shelled at a time. During the Battle of Jutland it was found that if more than one ship fired at a single target it became very difficult for the rangefinding parties on each attacking ship to tell which direct hits were theirs. Conte di Cavour had been assigned to fire on HMS Malaya and HMS Royal Sovereign, which were trailing Warspite and did not join the engagement. Warspite then split her fire between the two Italian Battleships ships which saved the Giulio Cesare. She straddled the Italian flagship and scored her first hit after only eight minutes. The Italians then withdrew and the action ended with no clear victor. In November of 1940 she supported the attack on the Italian fleet at Taranto and in December of 1940 she was part of the naval force charged with bombarding the Italian naval base at Valona.

What about the Tashkent class (Project 20), of 139.7 m???, or the proposed Spahkreuzer, which basically was a destroyer for the high seas??? Both in the same range as the smaller light cruiser around, like the Dutch Tromp class of 131 meters and Yubari of 138 meters., Both these ships were cruisers as designed, compared to the sometimes larger Destroyers of various fleets, designed as large, but pure destroyers.

As for Truk, Katori was not just straddled by the USN BB's but also at the same time by the fire of the cruisers, whose 8 inch splashes were not very much different than those of the 16 inch shells seen from medium to long range. More important still: Katori's speed was not more than a few knots after the airstrike so shooting an almost stationary target at only 14,500yds, which was the actual range USS Iowa was shooting at, produced little to nothing and USS Minneapolis and New Orleans had to clean up the mess the BB's created by failing in the fist place to do their jobs properly. So not the suggested 35,000 yards as that is shooting from over the horizon, which is not the purpose of the BB in the first place, especially as the change of landing a shell in, or near the target is less than 1% at such extreme ranges. USS Iowa never sank anything in wartime, despite some believers she did.

Secondly, there is no reliable referance to USS West Virginia scoring a first salvo hit at all. All is based on a claim off the gunnery director officer of the ship itself, which is often quoted, not by scientifical facts. Also the Yamashiro took fire from a lot of other ships as well, from all directions, making a claim of just a single BB highly unreliable, given the circumstances in the confusing engagement. Another fact is the Yamashiro was set on fire by the hits scored on her with gunnery, indicating a lot of the shell's used against the battleships were of the HE type, not the AP type normally associated with BB gunnery. Most damage still was created by the multiple hits of torpedoes, not the shellfire as the wreck itself will tell.
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What about the Tashkent class (Project 20), of 139.7 m???, or the proposed Spahkreuzer, which basically was a destroyer for the high seas??? Both in the same range as the smaller light cruiser around, like the Dutch Tromp class of 131 meters and Yubari of 138 meters., Both these ships were cruisers as designed, compared to the sometimes larger Destroyers of various fleets, designed as large, but pure destroyers.
Ah, I’d forgotten about Tashkent, TBH. But even she doesn’t crack 140 meters, let alone 150, and the Spahkreuzer was a paper project. More to the point, just as Tashkent and, say, the Mogadors are unusually large for destroyers, so too are Yubari and the Tromps unusually small for cruisers; you’re essentially relying on outliers to advance this line of argument (granted, more so on the cruiser side than the destroyer side) and that’s never a convincing argument.

As for Truk, Katori was not just straddled by the USN BB's but also at the same time by the fire of the cruisers, whose 8 inch splashes were not very much different than those of the 16 inch shells seen from medium to long range. More important still: Katori's speed was not more than a few knots after the airstrike so shooting an almost stationary target at only 14,500yds, which was the actual range USS Iowa was shooting at, produced little to nothing and USS Minneapolis and New Orleans had to clean up the mess the BB's created by failing in the fist place to do their jobs properly. So not the suggested 35,000 yards as that is shooting from over the horizon, which is not the purpose of the BB in the first place, especially as the change of landing a shell in, or near the target is less than 1% at such extreme ranges. USS Iowa never sank anything in wartime, despite some believers she did.
Citation that the cruisers fired on Katori. Nothing I’ve found agrees with that. Definitely not that the cruisers were the ones who sunk her. What I’ve found suggests it was either Iowa or her old torpedo damage; don’t have any decisive evidence either way.

Secondly, there is no reliable referance to USS West Virginia scoring a first salvo hit at all. All is based on a claim off the gunnery director officer of the ship itself, which is often quoted, not by scientifical facts. Also the Yamashiro took fire from a lot of other ships as well, from all directions, making a claim of just a single BB highly unreliable, given the circumstances in the confusing engagement. Another fact is the Yamashiro was set on fire by the hits scored on her with gunnery, indicating a lot of the shell's used against the battleships were of the HE type, not the AP type normally associated with BB gunnery. Most damage still was created by the multiple hits of torpedoes, not the shellfire as the wreck itself will tell.
Stop citing the damage, for fuck’s sake. So torpedoes did the most damage, so what? We’re talking fire control here, that hits were achieved is the salient point.

Anyway, regarding the first-salvo hit claim: I can’t refute that, but I’m honestly not surprised that it’s a quote from the gunnery director officer; not like anyone else would be able to say otherwise, considering how only ten of Yamashiro’s crew survived and I doubt any of them were officers capable of verifying something like this.

However, this is no reason to dismiss the gunnery officer’s claim out of hand, especially not for the reason that it’s “not a scientifical* fact”. Fact of the matter is that there really isn’t a scientific way to prove or disprove this claim; it’s entirely eyewitness accounts. Welcome to history, by the way, where this sort of thing is a fact of life for historians. Further, Kirishima’s sinking suggests that, if anything, the gunnery officer would underestimate the hits achieved, with observers aboard the ship unable to track underwater hits or distinguish between two hits in very close proximity. Again, a real pity only ten men got off Yamashiro.

One last thing: yes, Yamashiro took fire form multiple ships in multiple directions. West Virginia shot first, though, and the two minutes it took for everyone else to open fire is enough time to spot the results. Further, just because fires were started doesn’t mean AP wasn’t used. AP has explosive filler, too, and some accounts claim an explosion at one of Yamashiro’s main battery turrets, suggesting ammo going up.

*Also, really? Scientifical? Mistypes or no, I’m tempted to dismiss your entire argument just for that.

I stand corected in the range HMS Warspite hit Guilio Caesar. Mistyped 26,000 for 29,000 yards on numerrical keyboard. Sorry fo that. By the way, the hit was scored after eight minutes after the Italian battleship started the engagement, HMS Warspite did not respond directly, though one of her first salvo's produced the hit, after she stated to shoot back at both Italian BB's.
Quote:
The two Italian battleships maneuvered to shell Warspite in a joined effort. The Italian Battleship Giulio Cesare opened fire at a range of 26,400 meters while her sister ship - Conte di Cavour - held up, the Italian strategy being to have only one ship shelled at a time. During the Battle of Jutland it was found that if more than one ship fired at a single target it became very difficult for the rangefinding parties on each attacking ship to tell which direct hits were theirs. Conte di Cavour had been assigned to fire on HMS Malaya and HMS Royal Sovereign, which were trailing Warspite and did not join the engagement. Warspite then split her fire between the two Italian Battleships ships which saved the Giulio Cesare. She straddled the Italian flagship and scored her first hit after only eight minutes. The Italians then withdrew and the action ended with no clear victor. In November of 1940 she supported the attack on the Italian fleet at Taranto and in December of 1940 she was part of the naval force charged with bombarding the Italian naval base at Valona.
yes, one of Warspite’s first salvoes hit Giulio Cesare, especially impressive because she was splitting her fire. But timing suggests that it was in no way a first-salvo hit. The Italians opened up at 15:52; Malaya at 15:54; Warspite was before Malaya and so somewhere in between; and the hit on Cesare happened at 1600. This shows at least a couple salvoes in between opening fire and hitting Cesare.
 
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