During WWII, the Japs did of course temporarily occupy Attu & Kiska on the Aleutians during 1942-early 1943- but could they have also gone for mainland Alaska ?
Invasion of mainland Alaska WWII
- Thread starter Melvin Loh
- Start date
Well, assuming it just needs to happen in some version of ww2 ANYTHING could have happened.
But I don't think it was part of their strategy, they don't gain any advantage from holding it, so they would probably trash the facilities and withdraw as opposed to invading it. Maybe they invade some small town to force USA into sending lots of guys to defend the others?
But I don't think it was part of their strategy, they don't gain any advantage from holding it, so they would probably trash the facilities and withdraw as opposed to invading it. Maybe they invade some small town to force USA into sending lots of guys to defend the others?
Dutch Harbor maybe, otherwise why bother. Any place they occupy in Alaska is very underdeveloped with no resources to exploit or even significant excess food supplies to feed the military. Guerillas have huge wilderness to hide in & live off land, and Japanese have zero experience in Alaskan weather conditions. Maybe from Dutch Harbor "Emily" seaplanes can bomb Seattle, but like I said - why bother, what they did was only a diversion and they abandoned it rather than fight.
MacCaulay
Banned
I always figured that if they had won Midway,then occupation of Dutch Harbour and the surrounding environs would've been to their advantage: they're not there to hold it, they're there to make the Americans and Canadians use resources coming after them.
Land a battalion or two at Dutch Harbour, dig in with what they can and hopefully land some anti-tank and anti-aircraft guns, scuttle the ships at the mouth so they can't land straight into the Harbour, then defend from attacks to landward.
The Americans and Canadians have no choice but to come after them with enough forces to get the job done, then follow them back up the chain, island hopping through the Aleutians like what actually happened.
In The Thousand Mile War: World War II in Alaska and the Aleutians, Garfield and Cole say that the air raid against Dutch Harbour at the beginning of the war was actually to test out the defenses prior to an amphibious assault that was set to come at some unspecified point in the future. That time never came because the Americans won at Midway.
Land a battalion or two at Dutch Harbour, dig in with what they can and hopefully land some anti-tank and anti-aircraft guns, scuttle the ships at the mouth so they can't land straight into the Harbour, then defend from attacks to landward.
The Americans and Canadians have no choice but to come after them with enough forces to get the job done, then follow them back up the chain, island hopping through the Aleutians like what actually happened.
In The Thousand Mile War: World War II in Alaska and the Aleutians, Garfield and Cole say that the air raid against Dutch Harbour at the beginning of the war was actually to test out the defenses prior to an amphibious assault that was set to come at some unspecified point in the future. That time never came because the Americans won at Midway.
With the Japanese still squashed. The US could rail their troops via Canada in numbers that would overwhelm anything that Japan had a hope of landing, particularly since Canada would also be sending troops.
Potentially the Japs could cut off rail links and stymie reinforcements...but that won't mean shit in the long run when their supplies run out, or the navy smashes them in with the magic of offshore bombardment. So yeah.
MacCaulay
Banned
Joe K is right. It's the magic of the Alcan Highway being built in overdrive much faster. That's probably what would happen. There was a line of airbases already in action, the RCAF and USAAC were operating Search and Rescue and Anti-Submarine aircraft from them as early as February, 1942.
The interesting thing about something like this is: if the Japanese land, say...a regiment at Dutch Harbour and dig in, then the American and Canadians will have a massive logistical capacity built towards going northwards.
A string of bases along the Alcan Highway, then out along the Aleutians as they push the Japanese back through the islands that way. Since we're all assuming a Japanese victory at Midway, this would actually make an American advance through the North Pacific much more preferable to an advance through the South Pacific, since the logistics are already there.
BlackWave said:
It didn't work at Attu and Kiska. US Navy destroyers shelled Attu for days before the infantry went ashore, and it still took weeks to dig the Japanese troops out. There's plenty of places to dig in around Dutch Harbour, and they'll have time to do it.
What happens to the US-USSR North Pacific supply route? If Japan takes Dutch Harbor and has a foothold on the Alaskan mainland, is the North Pacific supply route still used? Aircraft were flown across the Bering Sea; those shipments are stopped or reduced.
Japan may benefit if the US contributes a lot of effort to kicking the Japanese out of Alaska. This could slow the offensives in the Central and Southern Pacific.
Germany and Italy will see the biggest benefit from Japan's invasion of Alaska. I presume the USA and Canada will devote more resources to the Alaskan theater than in real-life. The North Africa invasion is likely to be smaller; the eastern-most invasion happens later, after land bases are captured and developed to provide airbases and supply depots.
I think we would see a battleship clash in this situation. The Japanese invasion of Dutch Harbor, brings the US Pacific Fleet's battleships up north. This leads to a meeting of the battlelines as Japan moves on to the Alaskan mainland.
Japan may benefit if the US contributes a lot of effort to kicking the Japanese out of Alaska. This could slow the offensives in the Central and Southern Pacific.
Germany and Italy will see the biggest benefit from Japan's invasion of Alaska. I presume the USA and Canada will devote more resources to the Alaskan theater than in real-life. The North Africa invasion is likely to be smaller; the eastern-most invasion happens later, after land bases are captured and developed to provide airbases and supply depots.
I think we would see a battleship clash in this situation. The Japanese invasion of Dutch Harbor, brings the US Pacific Fleet's battleships up north. This leads to a meeting of the battlelines as Japan moves on to the Alaskan mainland.
MacCaulay
Banned
Well, like I was saying, according to The Thousand Mile War, the Japanese really only intended to attempt a landing at Dutch Harbour if Midway was successful. If it was, then the US Navy would be out of the Central and South Pacific except for Australia for the next year or so until the escort carriers could come online.
Until then, the Alcan Highway could've been built and the Americans and Canadians could start pushing the Japanese off Alaska and back across the Aleutians.
I don't know as it would be that high up on the Japanese Navy's list. They put two carriers towards the Aleutian Operation, but the battleships were kept towards the south. They figured, apparently, that the biggest threat that could be countered with them was the British, Australian, and Indian fleets in the South Pacific and Indian Oceans.
A carrier battle in the North Pacific? I can see that. Or to be more precise: PBY Catalinas being used to track the things down so the US carriers will know where they are.
Bill Cameron
Banned
Dilvish,
Nothing.
That supply route functioned uninterrupted up until the USSR attacked Manchuria in August of '45. US supplies aboard US built ships flying USSR flag shuttled out of Seattle, San Francisco, and other west coast ports past IJN subs, across the northern Pacific, past occupied Attu and Kiska, past Sakhalin, and into Vladivostok without Japan so much as making a peep.
In fact, all of the few ships that were lost were sank by the US with either mines or torpedoes.
All that war material belong to the Soviet Union as soon as it left US docks of airfields and Japan isn't going to do anything to upset the Soviet Union. Hell, as late as Red Army tanks crossing the Manchurian border on August 9th Japan was trying to get Moscow to act as an intermediary between her and the Western allies.
Bill
I'm not saying the Japanese would win, I'm just saying Alaska would become a major battleground. I could see major land and sea actions to try and prevent landings by the Allies, or by Japan to keep there foothold. Maybe a shift in priorities, where Japan first tries to secure Alaska in 1941 besides immediate bases to the south (Guam, Hong Kong, Philippines) to secure there flank, and the strike into the East Indies powered by Alaskan oil. With no US battleships, the Japanese Battline with a few carriers could sail in the Northern waters unopposed, and use the Main carrier fleet to blunt any British attempts with the Indian Ocean Fleet. The US would have to commit all naval, air and land assets to Alaska to oppose it to, and with no Alcan highway in Dec 1941, it would be hard to ship forces by land, although possible, so maybe heavy fighting in the coastal areas in British Columbia/Alaskan Panhandle/Washington between light ships as Japan tries to interdict allied reinforcements through convoys because it would be much faster. Also maybe carrier strikes on Seattle and Vancouver by Japan, and even whole air raids by bombers based in Kodiak and Anchorage (did Japanese bombers have that range?) or even Juneau if they get that far.
Just wondering aloud....
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MacCaulay
Banned
I think the US and Canada probably would've just rushed the construction of the highway, but there's no way they could've gotten it done before, say...July, 1942.
But the US would have to throw the Corps of Engineers at it in a much larger capacity (they used mostly coloured troops to build it), and the Canadian Army would have to use the Zombies (conscientious objectors).
Then it could be done by then. There were rails built alongside the road, by the way: the Alberta Northern was brought in to consult on it.
So by say Fall 42' maybe a workable road? But still, until then, what would be used to get reinforcements north? I guess coastal waters, would be interesting the heavy fighting that might happen, maybe even landings by Japanese Regiments on islands in British Columbia to fortify to install guns, build air bases, and use as bases for torpedo boats and such to interdict convoys.
MacCaulay
Banned
I don't really see that happening...the Japanese had the ability to land more troops than what they did on Attu and Kiska. They could've landed on Unalaska Island, or the Komandorskis, but they didn't.
I just don't see them bringing the any large amounts of troops north until the Alcan highway is built. The Japanese battleplan in the Aleutians was to basically take a piece of ground, then dig in and make the Americans pay as heavy a price as they could getting them out.
Prowling Japanese subs and carrier based aircraft, I could see. But I'm not so sure about ground troops down into the panhandle. The Alaskan Peninsula, maybe even a second amphibious assault or land drive on Anchorage.
But an Anchorage assault would be very lucky. There's a lot of space between Dutch Harbour and Anchorage. Hundreds and hundreds of miles, and bad ocean between it. If they dug into the peninsula, that would be bad enough. They'd occupy hundreds of square miles of American territory, and it'd take a concerted American/Canadian effort to get them out.
Well I'm thinking along the lines of Alaskan oil through different geology being available at the time, so Alaska and its southern ports being very valuable, and Japan putting most of its energy into securing Alaskan ports and oilfields to supply them before the advance into South East Asia. If that was true then Japan would need Alaska, and the US and Canada, besides the moral blow of Japanese forces in North America, strategically, would need the oil taken away, if not for the Allies but just to deny Japan it.