There are many alt histories pre and post 1900 of germany and there seem to be alot of stereotypical topics and ideas which were already done alot of times. What do you think would be some interesting, obscure or overlooked Ideas/PoDs for "Germany" from the germanic people during Arminius till early modern times ?
Simply no German unification is something I rarely see in a TL, although this was as some nobles around Napoleon's era have thought, would never happen anyway, the cultural differences were very big, and the country was divided by religious, geographic and ideological lines.
I mean, if you'd butterfly the unification of the House of Brandenburg and Prussia away and have the Habsburgs less powerful by just not getting access to both Bohemia and Hungary, you'd have a mixed carpet of almost equally powerful duke- and kingdoms like Bavaria, Austria, Bohemia, Württemberg, the Saxonies, Brandenburg, Hesse etc. who may live in a somewhat peaceful equilibrium until the modern age with some sort of German Confederation or an HRE revised as a defensive, political and economic union between the German counties and states. Sure, there would be trouble once an unlucky death occurs that would pull many states into war against each other, but well, I guess that would be a matter of a TL.
Very post-1900, but otherwise, that was discussed some multiple times there:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/search/75114069/?q=strasser&o=date&c[node]=16
A)
Carolingian kings die a little bit different compared to OTL, resulting in different kingdoms and combination of kingdoms to survive.
B)
Lutheranism splits between Gnesio-Lutheranism and Phillippism. How would the reformation look like, with a further division? Such a split could lead to Butterflies in many places.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnesio-Lutherans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippists
C)
Some reforms inside the Holy Roman Empire in the 16. century, including a stronger, more successful role of the Imperial Circles, leading to a stronger Holy Roman Empire
D)
Somehow the Saxon-Polish personal union manages to gain Silesia in the 18. century
E)
A powerful non-Habsburg Bohemia, remaining as an independent power inside the Holy Roman Empire
Interesting Idea, it's true, a not unified german area is rarely seen, i think only saw some idependand bavaria scenarios. With an even earlier PoD there could be some intresting alternative kingdoms and cultures emerging. A Third Germany might also be an intresting idea for a later pod, Having Prussia, Austria and a third german power with those three beign in an unstable balance of power.
Imagine what could have happened to East Francia (and the Danube basin too) had the Magyars never migrated to Pannonia or been crushed early.
I've suggested this before and it's been poo-pooed by some on this board, but an interesting way if accomplishing that for me would be the British Parliament supporting Prussian annexation of Saxony in exchange for Rhineland and Westphalia being annexed by Hanover on the logic that beefing up Hanover would make it more feasible for it to provide for it's own defense and limit the amount of British resources that would have to go into that enterprise, and later on Britain encourages some of the smaller states to coalesce into a confederation of the Rhine around Hanover.
would indeed be interesting, though idk if it would stay seperated idefinitly, i can see some form of german confederation forming. Maybe a more prussia and eastern oriented Prussia/teutonic order could prevent prussia from beign dominant and i doubt the habsburgs could unite germany long term. Maybe a Prussia-Novgorod thing with a strong focus on the northern trade ? Although idk if that is asb or even remotely doable
I have expressed this elsewhere, but I am always interested to see more scenarios that explore what it might have meant for Europe had Late Antiquity and the decline and fall of the Roman Empire unfolded in broadly the same fashion in our world, with the primary exception being that Christianity does not catch on quite so strongly, at least in the Mediterranean world. What would have become of the Germanic tribes and the kingdoms that they carved out of formerly Roman lands had it instead been Sol Invictus, or Manichaeism, or another religion?
Saxony was pagan for a long time, it would also be interesting to explore what a surviving pagan saxon would have ment. Or maybe christinity became an eastern religion and Sol Invictus prominent in the west ? Do you know if there are any good resources to see how politics would have been influenced by that ? My knowledge about religions and their influence on borders etc. in late antiquity is fairly limited
I think that I've never seen someone explore the possibilities of a Mongol conquest of Germany. For example, if Ogodei became sober for some reason and have a long life the Mongol Empire could have remained coherent and focused on reaching the Atlantic enough to conquer Germany. The consequences would have been enormous: for starter, the political order of Germany would have been completely destroyed. Noble families, kingdoms, duchies wiped away. The HRE could stop existing or relocating its heartland to Italy, leading (probably) to a series of Italian emperors and an internal organization more based on free cities than OTL HRE due to Comuni and little Signorie already being the norm in most of Imperial Italy. Other thing, Mongol Germany would mean a flux of communication between Germany and all the places under the Pax Mongolica, like China, that could lead to the acquiring of Eastern technologies, ideas and institution.
It would necessarily need more study than what I've written there, but Mongol Germany holds millions of interesting possibilities.
It would necessarily need more study than what I've written there, but Mongol Germany holds millions of interesting possibilities.
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As a mongol fan i have said this and I will say it again if you give ogedie some years to live a complete life you still have problems
So beyond Poland, you’re no longer as
a) fast and
b) logistically supplied as you have been in the past. You’re also dealing with wealthier and heavier-armored foes in the form of the Holy Roman and French and Italian armies. If you want to go south? You’re dealing with mountain choke points with foes armed with pikes and crossbows and a massive castle every 10 miles. You go north? You’re dealing with dense forest, frequent fortifications, winding hills, and knights that for all intents and purposes could be classified This is what they would have been fighting thousands upon thousands of on their home terrain and in unfavorable conditions
heavy infantry can be massacred by cavalry archers on open ground, a mounted archer force would be annihilated if it tried to fight in wooded, uneven terrain. Forests severely hamper the maneuverability of horsemen and allows them to be engaged by infantry, while attempting to assault a force who have the high ground neutralises their speed, saps their stamina and makes them far more vulnerable to missile fire, which is critical given that cavalry archers sacrifice the defense afforded by heavy armour for speed and agility, so a barrage of arrows from above can decimate them before they even have a chance to fight. Men who are being picked off by volleys of arrows would much rather run downhill to safety than uphill towards more danger, horses doubly so, making a full scale rout the likely result of attempting a sustained uphill fight.
even in our timeline had it not been for subotia batu would have been killed in mohi when he the rive in the back.
now places like vienna Bohemia etc but east of hambrug becomes unlikely
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But wasnt china for example also highly fortified with very good equipped armies and rough terrain ? I am absolutely no expert but maybe the Holy Roman Empire could become a battleground
the song dynasty was like euorpe in a sense that it was wet , forrested and had plenty of forrtress
how long did it take for the mongols to take it 40 Years , and the battle against song china had some things that you dont have in europe
1) being close to the supply , china was close , europe is about 7000 km away
2) the big one ,mongol cavarly archers dindt conquer the song , it was the chinise infantry that fougth for them which was the bulk of the army and the main reason why the won , you aslo have to include the mongol navy.
these things cant happen in euorpe there not gonna send more 100k chinise heavy infantry to the HRE
if subotai goes for it and ogedie lives subotia would harm he places i mention but like hungary and poland he would not have conquered them
Kaze
Banned
Different unifies of Germany... My favorites are:
1. Baron Ludwig von Windthorst. Bismarck's political Rival, founder of the Centre Party.
2. Mad King Ludwig. He thought about it for a long while, but went insane before he could do it. In an ISOT, he could be competent and have a Bavaria-centered Germany.
3. Karl Marx. He supported the idea of a United Germany. Heaven save Germany if he gets to place his theories in practice
4. Martin Luther & Charles V. Luther makes an impassioned speech at the Diet of Worms, Charles V listens and unites Germany.
5. House of Hohenstaffen / Welf. Or... an alliance between the two houses
1. Baron Ludwig von Windthorst. Bismarck's political Rival, founder of the Centre Party.
2. Mad King Ludwig. He thought about it for a long while, but went insane before he could do it. In an ISOT, he could be competent and have a Bavaria-centered Germany.
3. Karl Marx. He supported the idea of a United Germany. Heaven save Germany if he gets to place his theories in practice
4. Martin Luther & Charles V. Luther makes an impassioned speech at the Diet of Worms, Charles V listens and unites Germany.
5. House of Hohenstaffen / Welf. Or... an alliance between the two houses
I have 1 point Vienna gets destroyed by 1243 by subotai
Or something happens that destroys Austria and the hasburgs
Ausria was the main reason why Germany didn't unite as the austrians once a a German principality got to strong they would declare war
But they they selves could not unite Germany
With austria I really see Saxony or other nother principality unitined Germany
Or something happens that destroys Austria and the hasburgs
Ausria was the main reason why Germany didn't unite as the austrians once a a German principality got to strong they would declare war
But they they selves could not unite Germany
With austria I really see Saxony or other nother principality unitined Germany