Integration Now, Integration Tomorrow, Integration Forever

Yes, the South is failing. The point of this timeline is to seriously screw up the south and politics at the same of time.

So... your point actually is to create a scenario that leads to the killing of a lot of people? Aren't there forum rules about that sort of thing?
 

Abhakhazia

Banned
The South's Fail

After the South failed industry and military having almost no loyality to it, the CS quickly fell apart. Nixon's popularity is enormous, and the election of 1960 seems to be in his hands.

The date of the South's surrender takes place of January 1st, 1958.

The flying of the Confederate Flag, or the owning of any Confederate leaning objects is illegal.
 
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How long does the war last? If it lasts for a week or more, then racial violence will continue for long after the Confederate States cease to exist.
 

Abhakhazia

Banned
How long does the war last? If it lasts for a week or more, then racial violence will continue for long after the Confederate States cease to exist.

It only lasts about a month. The US has destroyed the south pretty easily.

Racial Violence will continue, but reconstruction is going to be trust.
 
It only lasts about a month. The US has destroyed the south pretty easily.

Racial Violence will continue, but reconstruction is going to be trust.
A month!

The South's population is going to be 15% of what it was before.

Also, who knows if the US would even want to integrate and reconstruct after the war. The whites in the US would probably have the bejeezus scared out of them by what happened in the South. Same for the blacks. And the racial violence would probably spread outward.
 

Abhakhazia

Banned
A month!

The South's population is going to be 15% of what it was before.

Also, who knows if the US would even want to integrate and reconstruct after the war. The whites in the US would probably have the bejeezus scared out of them by what happened in the South. Same for the blacks. And the racial violence would probably spread outward.

Understand that racial violence only picks up only in the last week.

Riots will come to an end.
 
Understand that racial violence only picks up only in the last week.

Riots will come to an end.
That is impossible. The Second Confederacy is based on keeping blacks segregated. Its purpose is to oppress blacks. That will lead to immediate rebelllion.

As soon as some Southern blacks rebel, the Confederates will see blacks as potential enemies.

As soon as the Southern blacks hear about that, they will see all white people as potential enemies. Which would be correct at the time, because non-haters of blacks in the Confederacy would be seen as supporting the Union.

By the second day of the Confederacy's existence, at the latest, it will become full-on 'race war'.

This scenario is possibly the worst post-1900 scenario that could happen to the United States barring nuclear apocalypse.
 

Abhakhazia

Banned
That is impossible. The Second Confederacy is based on keeping blacks segregated. Its purpose is to oppress blacks. That will lead to immediate rebelllion.

As soon as some Southern blacks rebel, the Confederates will see blacks as potential enemies.

As soon as the Southern blacks hear about that, they will see all white people as potential enemies. Which would be correct at the time, because non-haters of blacks in the Confederacy would be seen as supporting the Union.

By the second day of the Confederacy's existence, at the latest, it will become full-on 'race war'.

This scenario is possibly the worst post-1900 scenario that could happen to the United States barring nuclear apocalypse.

It is ONE MONTH. 30 days!!!!!!!!! Up to a year of race violence would not "be the worse thing in the world", compared to OTL's what, 15?
Anyway, the North would seriously try to cut down on race violence ASAP. It would be no worse than OTL, in the long run.
 
It is ONE MONTH. 30 days!!!!!!!!! Up to a year of race violence would not "be the worse thing in the world", compared to OTL's what, 15?
Anyway, the North would seriously try to cut down on race violence ASAP. It would be no worse than OTL, in the long run.
Thirty days of every black person in the South vs every white person in the South, and hundreds of thousands of deaths, is going to leave a very lasting impression throughout the United States. And all except the most tolerant and optimistic blacks and whites outside of (and inside of) the South will feel that the other race are crazy murderous bastards, so even after the Union destroys the Confederacy, the war will continue in the South and probably expand outward.

OTL's race violence was not a constant conflict. There were race riots etc. not continuous war.
 
Thirty days of every black person in the South vs every white person in the South, and hundreds of thousands of deaths, is going to leave a very lasting impression throughout the United States. And all except the most tolerant and optimistic blacks and whites outside of the South will feel that the other race are crazy murderous bastards, so even after the Union destroys the Confederacy, the war will continue in the South and probably expand outward.

This. I've heard stories about how bad the Rodney King Riots are, and that's just a RIOT. Imagine a full-blown WAR. :eek::eek:

Marc A
 
I still think a second Confederacy TL would be interesting, due to the sheer chaos and due to how post-apocalyptic everything would become.

I would recommend calling it 'Hell Comes to America' or something to that effect.
 
Even if the war only lasted about a month, surely the Soviets would have taken interest in the conflict. Honestly, if your worst enemy starts fighting themself, even only briefly, you're going to take advantage of it somehow.
 
Here is the most likely outcome of this. At worst you have an insurgency. A strong one that is put down in the face of massive rioting, but still put down. And it ends within a month or two. The left over insurgents last maybe a year with clandestine Soviet support. Any actual Soviet assistance to the Confederacy, results in WW3.
 

Abhakhazia

Banned
The Soviet Union's Interest

Obviously, having their greatest rival in a civil war the Soviet Union wishes to take advantage of the situation. On August 13, 1958, the Soviet Union dropped three nuclear bombs on the United States. At 0057 Eastern Daylight Time, the Soviet Union dropped there first bomb, a 60 kiloton, on Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, directly on top of Independence Hall. The next bomb, at 0244 Eastern Daylight Time, hit on Wall Street, New York City, New York. The final bomb was dropped on Martinsburg, West Virginia a small town 60 miles outside of Washington, D.C. at 0459 Eastern Daylight Time. The Soviet bomber missed Washington, because the city was on a blackout orders.

All hell broke loose. President Nixon was evacuated to a small town in North Dakota. You may think that racial violence would go into extreme levels, but it doesn't. Actually, it stops. The country needs to present itself as a unified front.

The Soviet Union get's 4 of it's own little presents. Four bombers left from an airbase at 2121 Moscow Time. The first bomb, dropped over Leningrad at 0034 Moscow Time, weighed 3 kilotons more than the Soviet bombs. The second dropped on Moscow two minutes later weighed 70 kt. The last two bombs dropped on both Novgorod and Stalingrad at 0100 Moscow Time also weighed 63 kt.

On August 14, President Nixon made a speech saying the no one anywhere had heard from the Soviet Union until that morning. A report said that Khruschev, and almost all Soviet leaders were dead. Ethnic and tribal warfare had already started, and Armenia had already declared independence. He famously said on this day "December 7, 1941 was a day that shall live in infamy, but August 13, 1958 should live in the hearts and souls of all Americans- those young and old, man and woman, black and white, that America can always hold it's own. And that we can always strike back."
 
Yeah this is extremely implausible, either full up exchange or nothing, US air defense could stop a measly 3 Bears, and once the USSR starts it over 1,000 US bombers are going to finish it, Eisenhower delegated nuclear launch to the generals in the event of a nuclear war, the POTUS of the time could not stop it if he tried
 
The original reference is military, referring to a cluster bomb. You see, when a bomb drops on you, you're f___ed, but when a cluster bomb drops on you, you're clusterf___ed. And that is what you're about to do to the characters in your scenario.

Out of curiosity, do you have a citation for that etymology? It sounds likne a folk etymology to me, and what I can find suggests that "Mongolian cluster fuck" (the original phrase) is related to orgy.
 
Out of curiosity, do you have a citation for that etymology? It sounds likne a folk etymology to me, and what I can find suggests that "Mongolian cluster fuck" (the original phrase) is related to orgy.


The former Marine uncle who told me about it has been dead for many years, unfortunately. I'll see if I can find another source.
 
Yeah this is extremely implausible, either full up exchange or nothing, US air defense could stop a measly 3 Bears, and once the USSR starts it over 1,000 US bombers are going to finish it, Eisenhower delegated nuclear launch to the generals in the event of a nuclear war, the POTUS of the time could not stop it if he tried

I too agree. There's no way any Soviet nuclear attack on US soil NOT attract a full US counterstrike. :eek:

The more important question, however, is: why would the Sovs go for such a strike in the first place? :confused::cool:

Marc A
 
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