Instead of Mohammed, a Jewish Messiah

In time of Mohammed there were many Jewish Arabian tribes, but they didn't win out. Jesus was claimed to be the messiah, but did not fulfil the classic prophecies or ideal that the messiah would rule over Israel as a king, deliver the Jews, restore the temple, etc.

The invasions of the Caliphate established a new form of government over vast reaches of the exhausted Roman and Persian empires. Could a Jewish militant prophet unite Arabia under Jewish leadership and establish a great Arab-Jewish empire?
 
It'd help to know how many of the Arabs were Christians (and what kind), Jews and pagans at that time. But of course, finding statistics will be very hard to impossible.
 

Delvestius

Banned
It'd help to know how many of the Arabs were Christians (and what kind), Jews and pagans at that time. But of course, finding statistics will be very hard to impossible.

It can be speculated it was about half and half, with the cities being slightly more inclined to monotheism.
 
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In time of Mohammed there were many Jewish Arabian tribes, but they didn't win out. Jesus was claimed to be the messiah, but did not fulfil the classic prophecies or ideal that the messiah would rule over Israel as a king, deliver the Jews, restore the temple, etc.

The invasions of the Caliphate established a new form of government over vast reaches of the exhausted Roman and Persian empires. Could a Jewish militant prophet unite Arabia under Jewish leadership and establish a great Arab-Jewish empire?

Of course there is no hard statistics whatsoever.
But I will take a risk and make a guess:
The whole of Arabia is 100%, I mean ALL Arabia, North and South, East and West, city dwellers and bedouins. I mean independent Arabs living outside direct rule of Byzantium and Persia.
The Jewish Arabs were from 2 to 5 per cent of the total population.
The Christian Arabs were 5-15% (all kinds of Christians).
The Zoroastrian Arabs - 1-2%.
The rest of the Arabs, the overwhelming majority were pagan, traditional Arabian beliefs.

So a Jewish militant prophet uniting all the Arabs was very improbable, almost impossible.
In fact for a few centuries Islam was a national Arabian religion - 'us' (Muslim Arabs) and 'them' (the rest of the world).
A Jewish prophet would propose 'us' (the Jews and Jewish Arabs) and 'them' (the rest of the world) - that would not work. That was the time of birth of Arabian self-identity, Arabian patriotism and solidarity. The Arabs needed the Arabian religion, Muhammad felt that and he won.

As a matter of fact in Medina Muhammad courted the Jewish Arabs for some time, the first Muslims even prayed towards Jerusalem. But something went wrong and then the direction of the prayers became - towards Mecca.
My guess is monotheism of Muhammad was closest to traditional Arabian pagan beliefs, that's why they so readily embraced it. That would take a much more time to make the Arabs Jewish. It was contrary to their traditional ways.
 

Deleted member 9338

[FONT=&quot]I am not sure why a strong charismatic Jewish leader could not rally the tribes to their form of monotheism. Muhammad had just as many obstacles and not the long history to bring to bear.[/FONT]
 

OS fan

Banned
Oswald Spengler stated about this question: Mecca (which was pagan) was rather an exception, most of Arabia was either Christian or Jewish. Christians and Jews had made conversions in Arabia centuries before Mohammed.
 

katchen

Banned
A more Jewish Muhammad would have been an even greater challenge to the Byzantine Empire than Islam was. Heraclitus would have had to move against it, probably all the way into Arabia if he could. The Christian Eastern Roman Empire could not coexist with a militant Jewish messiah out of Arabia, especially if his movement was smart enough to conquer Sassanid Persia first.
Interestingly, this would also fulfill both the Jewish and Christian End Times prophecies, casting Heraclitus in the role of the Evil Antichrist Roman Emperor Armilus. Where the TL might go beyond the Holy Land and the lifetime of "Moshiach" is anyone's guess. If peace on earth and goodwill towards men did not result from this apocalypse, a lot of prophecy and theology in both Judaism and Christianity would need to be revised. :confused::eek::eek:
 
Oswald Spengler stated about this question: Mecca (which was pagan) was rather an exception, most of Arabia was either Christian or Jewish. Christians and Jews had made conversions in Arabia centuries before Mohammed.

This sounds about right to me. There were certainly Arab pagans, but Christianity had made some serious inroads during the sixth century, and I'd imagine Christianity was probably dominant amongst the most powerful and influential Arabs by the early decades of the seventh century. Muhammad must have been operating in an environment heavily influenced by active Christianity.

Anyway, as for a Jewish Messiah of some sort, why not a Palestinian Jew? There were attempts at setting up a Jewish state in Palestine in the 610s that ultimately proved to be unworkable for the Iranian authorities, but that the idea was attempted at all shows it was thought of as a plausible possible future for the region by contemporaries, both frightened Christians, hopeful Jews, and opportunistic Iranians.

You need to drastically slacken Roman rule over Palestine in some way, without replacing it with something equally firm. The best starting PoD to me would seem to be a Roman civil war of some sort that splinters imperial control over the region for twenty or thirty years, and allows a Jewish state to emerge. Even if that Jewish state is later smashed again, its ideas can continue to flourish and grow, perhaps amongst the Arabs or in Africa.
 
A more Jewish Muhammad would have been an even greater challenge to the Byzantine Empire than Islam was. Heraclitus would have had to move against it, probably all the way into Arabia if he could. The Christian Eastern Roman Empire could not coexist with a militant Jewish messiah out of Arabia, especially if his movement was smart enough to conquer Sassanid Persia first.
Interestingly, this would also fulfill both the Jewish and Christian End Times prophecies, casting Heraclitus in the role of the Evil Antichrist Roman Emperor Armilus. Where the TL might go beyond the Holy Land and the lifetime of "Moshiach" is anyone's guess. If peace on earth and goodwill towards men did not result from this apocalypse, a lot of prophecy and theology in both Judaism and Christianity would need to be revised. :confused::eek::eek:

Oh, Christians have played "pin the tail on the Antichrist" for a long, long time. Anyone from the Pope to the current U.S. president (some briefly thought it was Reagan because all three of his names had 6 letters) to the Secretary General of the U.N. may be the person designated depending on whom you ask. :)

Failed prophecies did stop the early Jehovah's Witnesses (1914 predicted as end times) or the Millerites (1844 Great Disappointment). Instead, they adjusted the predictions, or said the prophecy was correct, just in a different way than they earlier thought. Religions are pretty resilient.
 
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