Inglorious Basterds aftermatch.

*spoilers for the movie*

June 1944.
Hitler, Goring, Goebbels, along with the top leaders of the SS and Gestapo and dozens of Nazi officers die in the fire and explosion of a small cinema in Paris. The explosion is later confirmed to have been part of "Operation Kino", of which a group of judeo-americans commanded by U.S. Generals and double agents from the SS were part. What happens next?
 
I haven't seen the mvoie, but I would think the German Military would take over control of the country, and since it is late in the war, try and make a peace pact with the allies.

I believe thats what they were planning to do after the assassination attempt, if it were successful.
 
Unfortunately, as the valkyrie conspirators weren't prepared for this, operation valkyrie concludes with its original purpose, keeping control of the government in the hands of the nazi party. That is, unless they were in on it...
 
I can't believe we have a threat about this terrible movie. Anyways, they forgot one very important person even in that farce.

Heinrich Himmler anyone? He'd take over, he'd listen to his generals, and the war would last even longer more than likely.
 

LittleSpeer

Monthly Donor
I can't believe we have a threat about this terrible movie. Anyways, they forgot one very important person even in that farce.

Heinrich Himmler anyone? He'd take over, he'd listen to his generals, and the war would last even longer more than likely.

good point anyone heard of the Fox of the Rhine books???
 

Eurofed

Banned
Unfortunately, as the valkyrie conspirators weren't prepared for this, operation valkyrie concludes with its original purpose, keeping control of the government in the hands of the nazi party. That is, unless they were in on it...

This is actually untrue. The essential gears of the Valkyrie conspiracy were in place since the March 1943 attempts. And even if they weren't, the death of Hitler frees the Wehrmacht from any loyalty to the Nazi regime. In the threat of chaos from the sudden death of Hitler and pretty much all his top followers, the generals are going to seize power rather than acknowlege Himmler as leader, whom they hated and despised (and the generals have the upper hand in a fight for power, since they have Valkyrie ready, while the vast majority of the SS network is dispersed on the front) or a second-tier Nazi figure.

I make a strong case for my default "successful Valkyrie" scenario: separate peace negotiations with the Western Allies, leading to a Japan-like conditional in all but name surrender of Germany and its allies to the Anglo-Americans in exchange for national unity in their ethnic-linguistic borders and no Soviet occupation, after a mostly successful last stand of the Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front with everything it has left in Europe, and an Iron Curtain rather further east than OTL.

With a successful 20 July, I generally assume this to mean Germany in its pre-Munich borders minus East Prussia, an Iron Curtain on the Vistula and the Danube, with Grossdeutchsland, Czechia, West Poland, West Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia, maybe Slovakia, in the NATO/EU camp, even if Stalin would seek revenge from Sovietizing Finland.

However, this scenario makes a most crucial difference. Hitler dies before the start of Bagration. If the generals can organize a more successful defense against Bagration, the Red Army could be stopped, and the final Iron Curtain be drawn, on the 1941 borders at least, and a case could be made for the 1939 borders as well. Romania, Bulgaria, perhaps even Finland and the Baltic states could be saved from Communism, Poland and Hungary would be united, Hungary could have a chance to keep northern Transylvania and southern Slovakia, Poland could have a chance to keep its eastern territories, Germany could have a chance to keep East Prussia and perhaps even the Sudetenland. Sadly Romania would fail to keep Bessarabia in any case, since the Red Army had already occupied half of it at the PoD.

And most importantly, stopping the Holocaust in early June 1944 saves a great deal (although quite sadly, not most) of its victims. Score for mankind, and welcome to a stronger Israel. I can see the Sionists successfully claiming the West Bank in the War of Independence.

However, the South Koreans are going to pay the bill for keeping Eastern Europe free from Stalinist terror, as the USSR shall accelerate its timetable for invading Manchuria. Maybe Stalin could even manage to seize Hokkaido, but I do not trust the amphibious capabilities of the 1944 Red Army. He's going to keep North Iran as well (although this could easily butterfly Khomeini away).
 
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I can't believe we have a threat about this terrible movie. Anyways, they forgot one very important person even in that farce.

Heinrich Himmler anyone? He'd take over, he'd listen to his generals, and the war would last even longer more than likely.

OP forgot to mention him, as Himmler was in the cinema.

And Basterds is like the way people feel about pickles. Either you love it or hate it. I loved it.
 

Eurofed

Banned
I was thinking about the political aftereffects if the Nazi leaders are offed by a combined commando operation of a group of judeo-americans commanded by U.S. Generals and German double agents. Besides the positive fallout for the anti-Nazi Germans, which wraps into easier acceptance of the Axis separate conditional surrenfer by the Anglo-American public, this is a big score for the Jew community, too.

This ought to turn into greater support of UK and USA (which IOTL were at best lukewarm) for the Sionist cause. Combined with all the extra Jews that are going to survive if the Final Solution shuts down into June 1944 (all of whom are going to land into the Western bloc, and hence free to emigrate), this is really going to give a major boost to the scenario of a 1948 Greater Israel. This may push Stalin to a pro-Arab stance, and accelerate his OTL gradual switch to antisemitism in his late years. Say that the extra Jew lives that are saved in the West could be still lost, or at least suffer terrible hardship, when Stalin unleashes his own mega-pogrom.

If the vast majority of the Arab population in Palestine flees (or is evicted, believe what you want) a total Sionist victory, we are going to see a rather different Middle East.

Greater Israel would be even more pro-Western (and quite psosibly get more European support than OTL). Lebanon and Jordan was be fatally destabilized. There would not be any Hashemite monarchy anymore in Jordan, but a militant pro-Soviet Nasserite Palestinian republic to join hands with Syria. On one side, there would be more Jordanian partecipation in the wars against Israel, and more terrorist raids and retaliatory bombings across the Jordan. OTOH, the knot of the Jew-Arab impossible coexistence in Palestine would be severed, with both peoples getting their own separate homelands (greater potential for stable peace in the very long term, after the Cold War).

Sadly, Lebanon would be radically destabilized, leading to earlier adnd more severe civil wars and Syrian-Israeli interventions. Possibly the Nasserite coup in Iraq could be accelerated (Cold War showdown about Iraqi expansionism in Kuwait ?). The Islamist revolution would be quite likely butterflied away in Iran (but it might or might not happen elsewhere, e.g. in Egypt or Algeria) by the division of the country. Honestly dunno if this scenario could lead to a greater success of Nasserite efforts to unify Arab states, or not.
 
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