Information Request:Anglo-American war 1859-1900

Like it says in the title, this is an information request for a potential anglo-american war to start at some point between 1850 and 1900. What I am looking for in this thread is links to sites that can give me good insights to economic, political, technical and other related aspects of such a potential conflict. Published works are also most welcome, so just post the title etc and give a brief description.

I specifically would like information about the respective populations for:
Canada
USA
British Islands
British Empire (less the home islands)

from about the time of the US war of Independence, to 1850, 1860, 1870, 1880, and so on.

What I hope to achieve is a thread that gives me links to sufficiently accurate and in depth information that I will be able to then organize things for the purpose of outlining such a war, with many possible variations (A surprise attack, by one side or the other, and the public opinion/diplomatic aspects/repercussions of such), or perhaps a limited war of short duration and no intent, all the way up to one (or more) wars that are fought to the bitter end, winner take all type things.

Does anyone want to post some links? Or suggestions about this concept?

Any thoughts?
 
Population statistics: www.populstat.info is the best source for historical population information. For some countries, you can get estimates going all the way back to 1700. The site is a little weird, though, so you're better off typing "country x populstat" into google and going to the country's page directly.

In general, google is your friend. Every time you have a question, just type it in and something relevant will pop up.
 
You can find declassified copies of War Plan Red from the 1920s on the internet, where US military planners assess their strength vs the British empire's. Though because the war game is assuming the war is declared on the US, some of the conclusions drawn are pretty out there, like which beaches near Boston and New York City the British army would be using as landing sites for their invasion of the Northeast. (The reasoning for this apparently having nothing to do with estimates of British military strength, but the idea that in order to win anything but a stalemate the British would have to invade the US proper, and therefore they'd do that. If instead the US managed to take Canada, it could be used to get any possible peace terms the US desired.)

In reality at the same time British army planners, assuming a war declared on them by the United States, seem to have been split on whether to try and hold positions in Canada, or give up on defending it and concentrate their forces and superior navy on hitting the Americans elsewhere to force them to sue for peace, but they didn't have any detailed plans that we know of like the US did.
 
Economic info: MeasuringWorth.com will give you everything you need to know on GDP values for the US and UK since at least 1790, purchasing power of the pound and dollar over a similar period and other useful information. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to cover Canada, so you'll have to look elsewhere for that.

On War Plan Red - the real problem with that (apart from the fact it's outside the relevant time period, anyway), is that it completely misjudges the response of Canada - WPR assumes that Canada will either wait on the defensive or even try to invoke neutrality in the event of a US/UK war, whereas the actual Canadian plan in the event of such a war was to launch a balls to the wall invasion of the US, in the hope of causing sufficient disruption to American plans that enough time would be gained for Britain to get reinforcements across the Atlantic.
 
It's also useful to remember that War Plan Red significantly underestimated the power of the US and overestimated Britain's, especially in the 1920s and early 30s. By that point, the "defensive warfare only because we can't hope to match the Royal Navy" seems a bit silly.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
There are a lot of threads, good and bad, in this forum

You can search for them with a variety of search terms. Here's mine, which is in progress:

BURNISHED ROWS OF STEEL: A History of the Great War

Best
 
Population statistics: www.populstat.info
Thanks for the link!

Thanks for the info.

Economic info: MeasuringWorth.com will give you everything you need to know on GDP values for the US and UK since at least 1790, purchasing power of the pound and dollar over a similar period and other useful information.
Sounds interesting, I'll check this one out after work tonight.

You can search for them with a variety of search terms. Here's mine, which is in progress:

BURNISHED ROWS OF STEEL: A History of the Great War

Best
Sweet! I'll check this out after work as well.

I am wanting to get accurate info for the time period. For example, I was tought in school that during the WoI, the 13 colonies had a population of something like 6 million, while the British (Empire or Islands) had 13 million. I also remember reading that the WWII populations were:
Germany = 60 million
France = 40 million
GB = 2? million
and the USA = 180 million

Unfortunately, those numbers don't seem to match up, so I am going to have to sift through the different sites and then try to come up with numbers that are at least as accurate as I can.
 
Thanks for the link!


Thanks for the info.


Sounds interesting, I'll check this one out after work tonight.


Sweet! I'll check this out after work as well.

I am wanting to get accurate info for the time period. For example, I was tought in school that during the WoI, the 13 colonies had a population of something like 6 million, while the British (Empire or Islands) had 13 million. I also remember reading that the WWII populations were:
Germany = 60 million
France = 40 million
GB = 2? million
and the USA = 180 million

Unfortunately, those numbers don't seem to match up, so I am going to have to sift through the different sites and then try to come up with numbers that are at least as accurate as I can.

I've written enough WWII TLs (That I then deleted) to know these off the top of my head, so I'll save you the trouble of looking them up:
Germany=69 million
France=41 million
GB=49 million (India 400 million)
US=140 million
USSR=160 million
Japan=73 million
China=530 million
Italy=45 million

Edit: Also, the US had fewer than 3 million people in the 1770s and 1780s. The UK had a little less than 10 million.
 
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The later it is, the more the USA will win - the British knew they could never hold Canada against the USA. Canada knew they couldn't hold off the USA. The British can't even do much damage via blockade given the USA was self-sufficient. The war would simply be over how much the USA gets at the peace table.
 
It's also useful to remember that War Plan Red significantly underestimated the power of the US and overestimated Britain's, especially in the 1920s and early 30s. By that point, the "defensive warfare only because we can't hope to match the Royal Navy" seems a bit silly.

Well, part of the reason for that was that the plan made the assumptions that one, Britain is the one attacking, and two, Britain is a rational actor, therefore in the case of the British empire declaring war against the United States, the British empire would be ready, have all of its colonies completely behind it, and would have reason to expect to win.

How logical is sort of reasoning actually is/was is questionable, but that's what happens when planning a scenario around automatic assumptions. Plus anyway, it's probably a good idea in war games to err on the side of underestimating rather than overestimating your own strength.

I am wanting to get accurate info for the time period. For example, I was tought in school that during the WoI, the 13 colonies had a population of something like 6 million, while the British (Empire or Islands) had 13 million.

These numbers are way off, off the top of my head from earlier research I'm pretty sure at the start of the war it was ~2.5 million for the 13 colonies, and ~8 million for Great Britain, not including Ireland.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Buy a paperback copy of Paul Kennedy's The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers

Thanks for the link!


Thanks for the info.


Sounds interesting, I'll check this one out after work tonight.


Sweet! I'll check this out after work as well.

I am wanting to get accurate info for the time period. For example, I was tought in school that during the WoI, the 13 colonies had a population of something like 6 million, while the British (Empire or Islands) had 13 million. I also remember reading that the WWII populations were:
Germany = 60 million
France = 40 million
GB = 2? million
and the USA = 180 million

Unfortunately, those numbers don't seem to match up, so I am going to have to sift through the different sites and then try to come up with numbers that are at least as accurate as I can.


Gives you all the detail anyone would want in terms of comparative economics, at least for argument's sake....

Best,
 

TFSmith121

Banned
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