Infanta Maria Margaret of Spain born a boy

Infanta Maria Margaret of Spain (14 August 1621 – 15 August 1621) was the eldest daughter of Philip IV and his first wife, what I am wondering is what might happen if she was born a boy? What would she be named, and what might she do if she survived long enough to marry and have children as well?
 
Well, for one, it would cement the position of Queen Isabel as the birth of D. Baltasar did several years later. And for another, if this boy - who we can assume will be named Carlos or Fernando (the names of Felipe and Isabel's two sons) - lives long enough, there are no mainline Habsburg archduchesses available - unless Madrid's willing to wait several years for Maria Anna of Austria. However, there are archduchesses from Tyrol - who are half-Medici - in a more appropriate age bracket
 
Well, for one, it would cement the position of Queen Isabel as the birth of D. Baltasar did several years later. And for another, if this boy - who we can assume will be named Carlos or Fernando (the names of Felipe and Isabel's two sons) - lives long enough, there are no mainline Habsburg archduchesses available - unless Madrid's willing to wait several years for Maria Anna of Austria. However, there are archduchesses from Tyrol - who are half-Medici - in a more appropriate age bracket

Interesting, so could this see a slight branch out then?

So, Carlos, heir to Spain is born in 1621, how might this affect Spanish policy?
 
Interesting, so could this see a slight branch out then?

So, Carlos, heir to Spain is born in 1621, how might this affect Spanish policy?

Probably not by much. Unless Isabel's position is rendered powerful enough that she can break Olivares' hold on the king. And even so, IMHO, Felipe is not necessarily going to trust his brothers enough to give them any powerful positions or even let them marry. OTL he didn't because Olivares sowed doubts in his mind about his brothers' loyalty - something Felipe suspected until the last of their deaths. But if Isabel (whose position would be rendered stronger by the birth of a son) and D. Carlos (the king's next brother who was as anti-Olivares as they came) can team up, maybe their joint effort could replace the valido before he does too serious damage.

However, Felipe's sister Maria is still likely to marry the HRE which means that the 30YW is still going to be a massive drain on Spanish finances. IDK if any one else was ever considered for her (besides Charles I (and everyone except James and Charles knew that that wasn't gonna happen)), but the comparatively late ages at which Ferdinand III's sisters married at, seems to indicate to me a hope by the Austrian branch perhaps for a double marriage - an Austrian archduchess (Maria Anna, OTL Electress of Bavaria) to D. Carlos.

That said, an interesting thing was that until he died, James I continued to attempt a rapprochement with the Habsburgs (perhaps in the hope of getting his son-in-law's lands restored), and after the affair of the Spanish Marriages failed, he tried to betroth his grandson by the Winter Queen to the next infanta born to Felipe or to an Austrian archduchess (Cecilia Renata, OTL Queen of Poland). Unfortunately James died, and said grandson drowned but the idea was trotted out again when the Habsburgs tried to marry Maria Leopoldina of Tyrol (OTL Holy Roman Empress) to either Karl I Ludwig, Elector Palatine, or his brother, Prince Rupert. So it might have some merits. Perhaps as a long shot.
 
Probably not by much. Unless Isabel's position is rendered powerful enough that she can break Olivares' hold on the king. And even so, IMHO, Felipe is not necessarily going to trust his brothers enough to give them any powerful positions or even let them marry. OTL he didn't because Olivares sowed doubts in his mind about his brothers' loyalty - something Felipe suspected until the last of their deaths. But if Isabel (whose position would be rendered stronger by the birth of a son) and D. Carlos (the king's next brother who was as anti-Olivares as they came) can team up, maybe their joint effort could replace the valido before he does too serious damage.

However, Felipe's sister Maria is still likely to marry the HRE which means that the 30YW is still going to be a massive drain on Spanish finances. IDK if any one else was ever considered for her (besides Charles I (and everyone except James and Charles knew that that wasn't gonna happen)), but the comparatively late ages at which Ferdinand III's sisters married at, seems to indicate to me a hope by the Austrian branch perhaps for a double marriage - an Austrian archduchess (Maria Anna, OTL Electress of Bavaria) to D. Carlos.

That said, an interesting thing was that until he died, James I continued to attempt a rapprochement with the Habsburgs (perhaps in the hope of getting his son-in-law's lands restored), and after the affair of the Spanish Marriages failed, he tried to betroth his grandson by the Winter Queen to the next infanta born to Felipe or to an Austrian archduchess (Cecilia Renata, OTL Queen of Poland). Unfortunately James died, and said grandson drowned but the idea was trotted out again when the Habsburgs tried to marry Maria Leopoldina of Tyrol (OTL Holy Roman Empress) to either Karl I Ludwig, Elector Palatine, or his brother, Prince Rupert. So it might have some merits. Perhaps as a long shot.

Hmm interesting, whom might This eldest son of Philip marry then?
 
One of his cousins most likely. Baltasar Carlos' choices came down to two - Maria Anna of Austria and Mary of England (OTL Princess of Orange). TTL Carlos won't have any of his maternal line cousins to choose from besides either La Grande Mademoiselle (if she's not born as le petit Monsieur) and Luisa Cristina of Savoy (who had no kids OTL, but that might've been due to the fact that her husband was her uncle). So it's off to Austria (since there are no Bavarian princesses) and since the only option in the mainline is the much older Cecilia Renata (who's also his aunt - a definite no-no by canon law (yes, dispensations are granted, but go look at how many aunt-nephew marriages there were, and how many of those produced surviving children)). So that leaves a Tyrolean archduchess - either Isabella Klara of Austria-Tyrol, the OTL duchess of Mantua (who may or may not fill that post, depending if Caterina de Medici has a child by her husband Ferdinando, or if said husband acknowledges his legitimate but common born son as his heir (butterfly alert, no war of the Mantuan Succession means Mazarin doesn't meet Richelieu means he doesn't go to France)) and the OTL Holy Roman Empress, Maria Leopoldina of Austria-Tyrol. However, the Tyrolean cousins are related to him on both sides - their mother is also a Medici (cousin of Queen Isabel) and their father is uncle to Felipe.

Another candidate - not far in age, and OTL offered for several suitors including Gaston d'Orléans, the Great Elector, the archduke of Tyrol and finally marrying the Count Palatine of Neuburg, is the Polish-Swedish princess, Anna Katarzyna Konstancja Vasa. She's half Austrian (her mother and Felipe's are sisters).

And finally in Italy, the d'Estes are out (they're pro-French as a general rule) and Savoy turned anti-Spanish after Felipe's birth displaced them in the Spanish line of succession (Victor Amadeus did, anyway; his brothers less so). Anna de Medici might work if you overlook the fact that he's five years younger than her. Vittoria della Rovere would be an interesting candidate (although I think her mother and mother-in-law had her married from the cradle to her cousin, the Grand Duke of Tuscany), but she's uterine half-sibling to the archdukes of Tyrol and her mother OTL ended up regent of Tyrol until her son's majority AFAIK. Farnese means you've either got to accept an older bride for the prince or that you'd have to wait for the first princess of the new generation (daughter of Margherita de Medici) to be born (which might be too long a wait).
 
One of his cousins most likely. Baltasar Carlos' choices came down to two - Maria Anna of Austria and Mary of England (OTL Princess of Orange). TTL Carlos won't have any of his maternal line cousins to choose from besides either La Grande Mademoiselle (if she's not born as le petit Monsieur) and Luisa Cristina of Savoy (who had no kids OTL, but that might've been due to the fact that her husband was her uncle). So it's off to Austria (since there are no Bavarian princesses) and since the only option in the mainline is the much older Cecilia Renata (who's also his aunt - a definite no-no by canon law (yes, dispensations are granted, but go look at how many aunt-nephew marriages there were, and how many of those produced surviving children)). So that leaves a Tyrolean archduchess - either Isabella Klara of Austria-Tyrol, the OTL duchess of Mantua (who may or may not fill that post, depending if Caterina de Medici has a child by her husband Ferdinando, or if said husband acknowledges his legitimate but common born son as his heir (butterfly alert, no war of the Mantuan Succession means Mazarin doesn't meet Richelieu means he doesn't go to France)) and the OTL Holy Roman Empress, Maria Leopoldina of Austria-Tyrol. However, the Tyrolean cousins are related to him on both sides - their mother is also a Medici (cousin of Queen Isabel) and their father is uncle to Felipe.

Another candidate - not far in age, and OTL offered for several suitors including Gaston d'Orléans, the Great Elector, the archduke of Tyrol and finally marrying the Count Palatine of Neuburg, is the Polish-Swedish princess, Anna Katarzyna Konstancja Vasa. She's half Austrian (her mother and Felipe's are sisters).

And finally in Italy, the d'Estes are out (they're pro-French as a general rule) and Savoy turned anti-Spanish after Felipe's birth displaced them in the Spanish line of succession (Victor Amadeus did, anyway; his brothers less so). Anna de Medici might work if you overlook the fact that he's five years younger than her. Vittoria della Rovere would be an interesting candidate (although I think her mother and mother-in-law had her married from the cradle to her cousin, the Grand Duke of Tuscany), but she's uterine half-sibling to the archdukes of Tyrol and her mother OTL ended up regent of Tyrol until her son's majority AFAIK. Farnese means you've either got to accept an older bride for the prince or that you'd have to wait for the first princess of the new generation (daughter of Margherita de Medici) to be born (which might be too long a wait).

Della Rovere could be very interesting. As does Anna Katarzyna Konstancja Vasa. What benefits might those two bring?
 
Della Rovere could be very interesting. As does Anna Katarzyna Konstancja Vasa. What benefits might those two bring?

Della Rovere - AFAIK the papacy had already seized the actual duchy when her grandfather died, merely allowing her to retain the style and the property of the dukes - i.e. the art collections and the lordships of Rovere and Montefeltro (which she passed to her younger son).

As to Anna Katarzyna, I'm not quite sure.
 
Della Rovere - AFAIK the papacy had already seized the actual duchy when her grandfather died, merely allowing her to retain the style and the property of the dukes - i.e. the art collections and the lordships of Rovere and Montefeltro (which she passed to her younger son).

As to Anna Katarzyna, I'm not quite sure.

Ah fair, fair. An interesting thought nontheless
 
The names of Philip IV's children run as:
Francis Ferdinand
Charles
John
Balthasar Charles
Philip Prospero
Ferdinand Thomas Charles

Main differences will be no OTL Charles II of Spain, means no War of the Spanish Succession, meaning the Spanish Empire (Southern Netherlands and Spain's overseas empire, stretching from the Americas to the Spanish East Indies.)

So the name is most likely going to be:
Ferdinand Charles, Prince of Asturias born 14 August 1621, and he would most likely be able to live out at least 60 years (unless he is involved in a war), so around 1681, would be his date of death.

IOTL Philip IV, began diplomatic efforts to seek a bride for Balthasar Charles, Prince of Asturias.
- First suggestion was Archduchess Mariana of Austria, daughter of Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand III and his paternal aunt, Maria Anna, and therefore his cousin, being chosen, IOTL she would marry her uncle King Philip IV.
Another cousin, the daughter of his mother's sister, Henrietta Maria and her husband, King Charles I of England, Mary, Princess Royal, was also proposed as a potential bride

Other brides are:
- Anna de' Medici (1616-1676) daughter of Cosimo II de' Medici, and Maria Maddalena of Austria, a daughter of Charles II, Archduke of Austria, and a sister of Emperor Ferdinand II. IOTL she married Ferdinand Charles, Archduke of Austria (1628–1662) and had issue.
- Princess Luisa Cristina of Savoy, daughter of ctor Amadeus I, Duke of Savoy and Christine Marie of France
-Anna Catherine Constance Vasa, Polish princess as daughter of King Sigismund III Vasa of Poland
- Anne Marie Louise d'Orléans, Duchess of Montpensier, daugher of Gaston d'Orléans, and his first wife Marie de Bourbon, Duchess of Montpensier, had a string of proposals from various members of European ruling families, including Charles II of England, Afonso VI of Portugal, and Charles Emmanuel II of Savoy.
- Anna Beatrice d'Este (1626–1690), daugher of Alfonso III d'Este, Duke of Modena and Isabella of Savoy
- Princess Louise of Savoy, daughter of Thomas Francis, Prince of Carignano and Marie de Bourbon
 
The names of Philip IV's children run as:
Francis Ferdinand
Charles
John
Balthasar Charles
Philip Prospero
Ferdinand Thomas Charles

Main differences will be no OTL Charles II of Spain, means no War of the Spanish Succession, meaning the Spanish Empire (Southern Netherlands and Spain's overseas empire, stretching from the Americas to the Spanish East Indies.)

So the name is most likely going to be:
Ferdinand Charles, Prince of Asturias born 14 August 1621, and he would most likely be able to live out at least 60 years (unless he is involved in a war), so around 1681, would be his date of death.

IOTL Philip IV, began diplomatic efforts to seek a bride for Balthasar Charles, Prince of Asturias.
- First suggestion was Archduchess Mariana of Austria, daughter of Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand III and his paternal aunt, Maria Anna, and therefore his cousin, being chosen, IOTL she would marry her uncle King Philip IV.
Another cousin, the daughter of his mother's sister, Henrietta Maria and her husband, King Charles I of England, Mary, Princess Royal, was also proposed as a potential bride

Other brides are:
- Anna de' Medici (1616-1676) daughter of Cosimo II de' Medici, and Maria Maddalena of Austria, a daughter of Charles II, Archduke of Austria, and a sister of Emperor Ferdinand II. IOTL she married Ferdinand Charles, Archduke of Austria (1628–1662) and had issue.
- Princess Luisa Cristina of Savoy, daughter of ctor Amadeus I, Duke of Savoy and Christine Marie of France
-Anna Catherine Constance Vasa, Polish princess as daughter of King Sigismund III Vasa of Poland
- Anne Marie Louise d'Orléans, Duchess of Montpensier, daugher of Gaston d'Orléans, and his first wife Marie de Bourbon, Duchess of Montpensier, had a string of proposals from various members of European ruling families, including Charles II of England, Afonso VI of Portugal, and Charles Emmanuel II of Savoy.
- Anna Beatrice d'Este (1626–1690), daugher of Alfonso III d'Este, Duke of Modena and Isabella of Savoy
- Princess Louise of Savoy, daughter of Thomas Francis, Prince of Carignano and Marie de Bourbon

Interesting, very interesting, who would be the most likely option there?
 
Another interesting candidate, albeit unlikely, is none other than Christina of Sweden (the Girl King). Before the 30YW was over, and before his remarriage to his niece, Felipe presented a suit for himself, as did his former-brother-in-law, the Holy Roman Emperor. Needless to say, Reina Cristina in Madrid could always make for fun times.
 
Interesting, very interesting, who would be the most likely option there?
Archduchess Mariana of Austria.

She was Queen of Spain, IOTL she would marry her uncle King Philip IV, famous for funding the Jesuit voyage, in order to Catholicize the indigenous in North Pacific Ocean. Plue being the older sister of Leopold I, Holy Roman Emperor, Mariana could influence Leopold and Ferdinand Charles

Mary, Princess Royal of England
King Charles I, wished the Princess Royal to marry a son of Philip IV, Kingof Spain, so with a health son, King Philip could arrange the marriage without a problem.
She has full potential and would keep her children away from Great Britain, meaning the Glorious Revolution will change.

Anna de' Medici (1616-1676).
Her brothers, never married and her sister are not married to anyone influencial. And the Grand Duchy of Tuscany, is not a major player on the world stage.
Although she could help the spanish empire in their Italian regions.

Princess Luisa Cristina of Savoy.
A first cousin of Louis XIV of France and Charles II of England, another Italian from the Kingdom of Savovy, whose brothers could assist in Spain in the its Italian campaign,

Anna Catherine Constance Vasa.
Not only does she Shbring a considerable dowry in jewels and cash, but also the support of Poland.

Anne Marie Louise d'Orléans, Duchess of Montpensier.
Might be a little differcult, due to eventually marrying for love. Falling for courtier, Antoine Nompar de Caumont which bacame a major scandal in the court of France when she asked Louis XIV for permission to marry him.

Anna Beatrice d'Este
Not much is know about Anne, apart from she married Alessandro II Pico della Mirandola and had issue. She is also the granddaughter of Infanta Catherine Michelle of Spain

Princess Louise of Savoy
Another granddaughter of Infanta Catherine Michelle of Spain, via her son Thomas Francis, Prince of Carignano.

Princess Henriette Adelaide of Savoy
Hopefully she will be the same as OTL and have much political influence in her adopted country and with her husband did much to improve the welfare of Spain

Another interesting candidate, albeit unlikely, is none other than Christina of Sweden (the Girl King). Before the 30YW was over, and before his remarriage to his niece, Felipe presented a suit for himself, as did his former-brother-in-law, the Holy Roman Emperor. Needless to say, Reina Cristina in Madrid could always make for fun times.
The problem with Christian, is that she had decided not to marry, from a young age, when at 9, she was impressed by the Catholic religion and the merits of celibacy, as well as reading a a biography on the virgin queen Elizabeth I of England with interest.
To change this, you will need to change her personality, that could change how she would rule her nation and act as a wife.
 
She was Queen of Spain, IOTL she would marry her uncle King Philip IV, famous for funding the Jesuit voyage, in order to Catholicize the indigenous in North Pacific Ocean. Plue being the older sister of Leopold I, Holy Roman Emperor, Mariana could influence Leopold and Ferdinand Charles


King Charles I, wished the Princess Royal to marry a son of Philip IV, Kingof Spain, so with a health son, King Philip could arrange the marriage without a problem.
She has full potential and would keep her children away from Great Britain, meaning the Glorious Revolution will change.


Her brothers, never married and her sister are not married to anyone influencial. And the Grand Duchy of Tuscany, is not a major player on the world stage.
Although she could help the spanish empire in their Italian regions.


A first cousin of Louis XIV of France and Charles II of England, another Italian from the Kingdom of Savovy, whose brothers could assist in Spain in the its Italian campaign,


Not only does she Shbring a considerable dowry in jewels and cash, but also the support of Poland.


Might be a little differcult, due to eventually marrying for love. Falling for courtier, Antoine Nompar de Caumont which bacame a major scandal in the court of France when she asked Louis XIV for permission to marry him.


Not much is know about Anne, apart from she married Alessandro II Pico della Mirandola and had issue. She is also the granddaughter of Infanta Catherine Michelle of Spain


Another granddaughter of Infanta Catherine Michelle of Spain, via her son Thomas Francis, Prince of Carignano.


Hopefully she will be the same as OTL and have much political influence in her adopted country and with her husband did much to improve the welfare of Spain


The problem with Christian, is that she had decided not to marry, from a young age, when at 9, she was impressed by the Catholic religion and the merits of celibacy, as well as reading a a biography on the virgin queen Elizabeth I of England with interest.
To change this, you will need to change her personality, that could change how she would rule her nation and act as a wife.

Interesting going with Mary could be quite interesting
 
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