Industrialized Minioans: Possible?

I never meant to suggest that the Thera eruption ended the Minoan civilization right there and then... It certainly didn't.

I didn't think you were trying to suggest that. Many people believe it, though - along with "peaceful matriarchal utopia," "Atlantis destroyed by the Thera eruption" is one of the most common myths about Minoan Crete, and like Daeres, I want to make sure those myths don't gain currency here. I have a somewhat proprietary interest in the Minoans, for reasons that are well known to you. :)

I agree with your assessment that the Thera eruption caused, or more likely contributed to, a long-term decline.

And my point about unification was meant to address the population issue that you mentioned. A united Minoan polity with multiple urban centres answering to a single central authority strikes me as a somewhat better position from which to start industrialization (if we ignore the myriad of other factors pitted against them, of course) than a far-flung, decentralized colonial empire ruled by various feuding statelets.

In Crete as elsewhere in Greece, though, the terrain makes unification difficult. Greece in OTL was only unified from outside. Hmmm, I wonder if it might be possible to set up a Rome-Greece dynamic in which Minoan Crete is conquered by a stronger and more cohesive but less culturally advanced empire, which then proceeds to incorporate large amounts of Minoan culture into its own. I can't think of an empire in a position to do that - Assyria and Egypt were too far away and too civilized, the Hittites weren't stable enough, and the Mycenaeans, who did adopt a good deal of Minoan culture, weren't an empire.

Maybe a politically unified Mycenaean culture would do the trick, although again, there's the problem of terrain and the ingrained city-state political structure. Or maybe the Minoans, or more likely a daughter colony, could somehow survive the Bronze Age collapse, and then influence one of the developing Iron Age empires. But by that time, the Minoan colony might not be very Minoan any more.

I wasn't even aware there were people who insist on romanticizing the Minoans in such an absurd way!

They surely do. I think I've read every published novel set in Minoan Crete (for reasons that, again, are known to you) and there's a distinct subgenre which portrays the Minoans as a pacifist, feminist culture with virtually modern politics and ethics. Quite a few of the authors seem to believe this is actually how Minoan Crete was.
 
I thought there were depictions of warriors and possibly warfare on the frescoes of Akrotiri? And if I'm not mistaken pre-Mycenaean swords and other weapons and armor have been found on Crete as well. I've also seen articles about what may be walls being found at Minoan settlements as well, though I don't think around the palaces. In any case, didn't the Dorian invasion and subsequent dark age alter Mycenaean culture quite a bit?

It's very hard to tell what's a warrior, and what's a war god, or a symbolic role, or 'chieftains', or whatever. At least, it is when we have no context for the imagery we're looking at. I didn't mean to indicate that there was no weaponry in Minoan Crete, only that it isn't very prominent and widespread.

Ah yes, the Dorians. That is an incredibly hard mystery to decipher; some people think the Dorians were culturally separate from the Mycenaeans and were either 'Achaeafied' or were actually the original Greeks that transformed the Mycenaeans. Others think that the Dorian invasion never really happened, and was simply a post mortem reconstruction made by Greeks using what little information happened. Others think that both the Dorians and Mycenaeans were 'Greek' civilizations, but that the Dorians had been to the Mycenaeans what the Macedonians and Thrakians became to the later Hellenes. These and many variations thereof are arguments that will probably only be properly solved at a slow pace.

I would say that it's likely that it was not just the Dorians who caused the Mycenaeans to collapse; economic and social collapse across the Mediterranean had already been occuring and destroyed the previous political order. But you are right to say that Mycenaean culture got quite altered through this period and then the Greek 'Dark Age', because out of the other end we get Archaic-period Hellenes!

I wasn't even aware there were people who insist on romanticizing the Minoans in such an absurd way! (Except for maybe Gavin Menzies and his latest load of dreck...)

This is pretty much what I got taught at GCSE History in the brief mention of Minoans in the History of Medicine module; that Minoan Crete was an extremely advanced anomaly that didn't cause a lasting impact in any of the other civilizations or the history of the world's technological development, and thus that it was a very intriguing 'what if' for the history of civilization. And I think the OP is kind of reflecting a similar set of attitudes. Also, who let Gavin Menzies near the ancient Mediterranean :noexpression:.

Hmmm, maybe the Minoans become part of the Sea People migration during the collapse and end up taking the place of the Philistines? Or maybe, before the collapse, they establish daughter colonies in the western Med - near OTL Carthage, for instance, or even Sicily or Iberia - and one of them survives as a recognizably Minoan-descended culture? There was tin in Iberia, so they'd have a reason to set up a trading colony there.

I think this works if the Canaanites don't colonise the Mediterranean as greatly as OTL. If this happens then the Minoans would get their pick of the Balaerics, Iberia, North Africa, Sardinia, Corsica, and even Sicily. I think Sicily is a nice bet for them, OTL Messina and Syrakuse demonstrate that the resources of the island are capable of supporting large populations. I think you can have trading colonies set up in Sicily and other places, then at some point a large exodus from the Minoan homelands westwards in response to some crisis or collapse. That way you might be able to get large populations of Minoans elsewhere capable of avoiding big Empires and having rich resource filled environments at their disposal. The key thing is that the populations need to be relatively large to not become assimilated into the native cultures or even to be conquered outright.
 
I wasn't even aware there were people who insist on romanticizing the Minoans in such an absurd way! (Except for maybe Gavin Menzies and his latest load of dreck...)
Ah, so you've seen that particular gem as well, haven't you? I was wondering around the bookstore one day when I saw a large hardback with the words "Atlantis" and "Gavin Menzies" plastered on the front and I was like "what nonsense is he coming up with this time, I wonder?" I took a closer look and saw "Atlantis legend inspired by Thera" and was like "Oh, this isn't actually bad." And then I looked at the summary on the flap and saw "Minoans discovered America!" and then he was straight back to being pants-on-head retarded.
 
Ah, so you've seen that particular gem as well, haven't you? I was wondering around the bookstore one day when I saw a large hardback with the words "Atlantis" and "Gavin Menzies" plastered on the front and I was like "what nonsense is he coming up with this time, I wonder?" I took a closer look and saw "Atlantis legend inspired by Thera" and was like "Oh, this isn't actually bad." And then I looked at the summary on the flap and saw "Minoans discovered America!" and then he was straight back to being pants-on-head retarded.

When people seriously talk about Atlantis (ahem-History Channel-ahem) it just makes me sad. I once saw a documentary show on the history channel (I was in the hospital, so I couldn't change the channel,) and. It suggested, because someone found a rock with a Templar cross scratched into it- which couldn't be dated, because it cut through the strata of the rock or something- that the Knights Templar discovered America. It made me tear up...
 
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