Lucius Verus
Banned
The filling in might happen by accident, I do love the theme of a canal city so hopefully not.
Industrial Progress: A Story Of Venetian Suffrage (Haitus)
- Thread starter Lucius Verus
- Start date
The filling in might happen by accident, I do love the theme of a canal city so hopefully not.
In large, it's because I've now been to Venice, and I know of no place like it in the world.
The canals don't have to be filled, in fact they could be expanded to the new infilled lagoon areas. It's not like modern cities don't like canals. They contribute greatly to a city in many ways.
Oh perhaps a big project in the next couple centuries could be dividing the northern half of the lagoon into freshwater and the southern into saltwater. With north of the Grand Canal being freshwater and south being saltwater.
Orange area is the freshwater half of the lagoon, fed by the Dese River. Eventually it gets filled in by constant dredging and dumping and silt build-up. Except for the canals that are continually built to feed the city center large amounts of fresh water.
There would probably be a series of lakes throughout the city, kind of like Suzhou.
108. The Philosophy Of Change Part 2
Lucius Verus
Banned
108. The Philosophy Of Change Part 2
1480
Venetian Republic
We were two companies of three hundred sent to take Carpi, the Elder Pio brother served in the conquest of the Nile and had the foresight to convert his castle into a rampart which our cannonballs just sunk into. Thousands of ducats spent on the latest cast iron techniques, carriages, and one of the finest ballistics expert me and all it took was a pile of dirt. It was a bloody hell fighting up that rampart but we carried the day. it was only after the war that I learned there was an army of four thousand rebels a day's march in Modena; word was that they(Modena) were happy to see the old Ghibellines destroyed... What's a Ghibelline? [1][2]
Bessarion, Combat Engineer captain.
At the beginning of the revolt it was seen as just news pertinent only to the travelers, traders, and the curious while the thousands of soldiers travelling through Venice no different from any other influx of travelers. Then the Estes of Ferrara revolted just across the lagoon, followed by the return of the first hospital ships, and climaxing with an Este raid bombarding the Lido. Due to a combination of better battlefield surgery and Venice being the closest safe haven for all of the Republic's surviving wounded plenty of wounded and dying soldiers filled the streets of Venice giving the situation a sense of gravity. While the situation was a far-cry from the grim days of 1378 when the citizens of Venice starved while awaiting the Genoese slaughter it was now 1487 and a full century had passed for citizens born in safety. The sense of shock and betrayal was in the air and it lubricated the process of drafting for the first time in decades. Meanwhile, as the focal point of the rebellion the Sons of Erasmus was mired in a crisis of discipline as many current or former members and their friends within Terrafirma cities were lynched by mobs. Acts of vengeance for real and perceived wrongs was rampant by the Sons of Erasmus pushing the silent majority towards active rebellion while the armies themselves threatened to devolve into disorganized mobs. Despite the relative autonomy of armies in the field, the Sons of Erasmus was more dependent than any medieval army on its supply train which combined with idealistic Patrician leadership helped reign in the worst excesses in the early days of the rebellion. Just in time too, for most of the incompetent and idealistic Patrician leadership would soon die or be dismissed in the fighting.
For many Terrafirma the troubles started long before 1487 in the 1420s right after Venetian conquest, wages which had been stagnant for nearly two centuries fell precipitously against competition from more efficient and larger Venetian manufacturates. The rising guilds of the 11th-12th centuries, which had led to the creation of well-intentioned if unstable and oligarchic republics had to adapt to Venetian standardized production with wage cuts and/or transitions towards luxury products unprofitable to mass-produce. The process was well-underway by the 1480s yet unlike Venice, which had the legacy of a welfare floor through food subsidies, a vibrant and free jobs market, and bureaucratic jobs restricted to citizens the local governments of Terrafirma were exclusive, obstinate, and non-responsive to Venice and the majority of the populace. The result was dysfunction, bureaucratic chaos, and masses of poor, oppressed, and impoverished urban labourers slowly emigrating to the countryside while the majority sold their loyalty to those that promised them the most. The situation was as bad as the former city-states where bitter feuding between neighbours in a changing economy with the addition of Venice as an universal overlord to rally against.[3]
Historically Venice didn't do much to help its case, unwilling to replace the existing government post-conquest like it did with Dalmatia, Regusa, and the Nile, nor willing to fully integrate the elites like Dalmatia due to the sheer number of mainlander Patricians and Nobles with a culture considered incompatible with the Venetian senate, while also considering the mainland too strategic and threatening for autonomy like the Albanian tribes or Greek despots. Too confident and proud, the heirs of past conquest are unwilling to concede that their parents over-reached nor as willing to adapt. Despite the denial the sheer obstinacy of the mainlanders were already affecting the Patricians, attracted by the profit potential of a rich market and repulsed by official channels have resorted to the more personal networks indulging with the associated marriage and culture-of course this went both ways, many mainland Patricians are also brought into the Venetian system (usually the super-rich) and borne witness to the relatively functional, consistent, and impartial Venetian government as well as Venetian culture.
In contrast to the anger of the people the Patricians of Venice, the Doge, and the State saw the problem from a distance. The treatment of traitors, regardless of time, place, or culture tended to be severe and brutal. Unlike the citizens and residents of the Adriatic, which were relatively well fed by sea and blamed the rebellion for their current food woes the government had been trying to combat the agricultural crisis for nearly two years which lessened the shock of betrayal. It was during a particularly heated senate session Dogaressa Enrica Ruzzini, frustrated by obstinate firebrands, the delay of communicating through her disinterested husband broke with tradition and shouted down proposals to sack the cities of Terrafirma. Reminding them of their failure to prevent the agricultural crisis in the first place and their numerous ties and interests in the mainland Enrica Ruzzini managed to moderate the discourse within the senate away from draconian retribution. Yet perhaps the most important factor in the ultimate treatment of the rebels was the fact that the richest and most Venetianized mainlanders were also the most importance sources of intel and later cooperation in pacified cities. While the Venetian system wasn't able to integrate the numerous and proud mainlanders like it did in its other colonial regions it was at least able to co-op the richest strata of mainland society.
Militarily the mainland was seen by the senate as an endless ocean, it seemed that no matter how many soldiers Venice sent the mainland always seemed capable of mustering more and swallowing them whole. Venetian rectors estimated that had Lombardia not burnt itself out with starvation and infighting the campaign would've taken another year or two and given foreign powers a chance to intervene. Combined with the dire state of saltpeter stocks and the perpetual inability of "piters" (urine processing by farms) to produce powder high-quality enough [4]
In reality the rebels on the mainland were in various stages of paranoid purging and hunger with men flocking to the banners in hopes of securing food. Unlike their own men, which could be led astray by promises of food and amnesty the Sons of Erasmus seemed unwavering with the rebel leadership begrudgingly acknowledging the fact. On paper the rebels had more wealth, men, and arms than the Venetians and in the wake of defeat there was consensus on the need for a professional military but how? The very city-state that they rebelled for is based on the creation and hoarding of privileges over others within their city; what insanity would it be to train and arm the enemies that they had or will exploit and oppress? For many of the guilds and minor nobles which provided the leadership of the rebellion it was easier to blame traditional enemies and scapegoats or resort to the nebulous solution of mercenaries than it was to reassess their "natural" claims of privilege. In many ways the revolts were reactionary, trying to turn the clock back to the city-states, a time made increasingly obsolete by the Venetian empire and military innovations. For the a good deal of the guilds, nobles, and patricians for whom the city-state was the basis of the privilege and economy that they relied on for their welfare and identity there was no peace, merely a truce.
Like the days of the Visconti dominance there was a sense of inevitability to Venetian power and these people rather bend than lose more in a third time resisting. This group were mostly the professionals, merchants, rural landowners, yeoman farmholds, and enterprising noble-Patricians who have adapted and benefited most in the last few decades. Led by the richest mainland patricians and nobles who had integrated into the Venetian system this line of thought was formerly split between those that wanted greater integration in the hopes of participating in and perhaps even taking over the senate with sheer numbers and wealth while other wished for greater autonomy, the latter discredited by the Venetian reconquest.
The bulk of the urban residents were the labouring poor, impoverished by the traditional city-state administration's taxation and oppression with the new addition of Venetian economic competition. Without ideology, split between cities, neighbourhoods, blood, and by their patrons this disorganized mass of misery wallows in the day to day challenges of life and while riotous are mostly limited to local concerns unless pushed to the brink. Without strong loyalties they try to sell their loyalties for a pittance.
Amidst all the politics a small core of well to do academics, clerics, and writers that saw the problem clearly; Terrafirma could be independent if only the cities united in opposition. Brought together by social circles of letters and a shared belief in humanism instead of birth or city-citizenship they represent a vocal minority mostly ignored by the popular humanists pre-revolt but are now gaining a growing audience among the expanding professional classes and nobles. They cared little for what city one was from and are the only group with universal appeal yet they are often are blindsided by their wealthy upbringings mostly neglecting to the masses and fumbling when they try to.
"We are crabs in the bucket, all too busy trying to pull either other down while the fisherman prepares to dine"
Donato Bramante
[1]IOTL 50 ducats=about the annual wage of a Italian skilled worker, 15 ducats for a laborer. Italian income per capita was about 150%-200% that of the rest of Europe and kept at that level until the 16th century when the Netherlands surpassed them. IOTL the cost of living in Venice inflated Venetian incomes, while it wasn't growing the average person did live relatively wealthy lives. ITTL Venice per capita income is still growing spurred on by both intensive improvements in organization, technology, and institutions and the extensive benefits of empire.
[2] IOTL the Ghibellines and Guelphs were factions supporting the Holy Roman Emperor(HRE) and the Pope respectively. There was a social element to the division as the merchants tended to be Guelphs while the nobles that made their money from land holding tended to be Ghibellines. IOTL the Patricians of Venice were all cut from the same mercantile clothe and there weren't powerful large land owners till recently ITTL (yes IOTL there were Patrician lords in Crete, but they were distant and lacing influence in Venice).
[3] IOTL the "original" citizens, or I suppose highest tier pure bloods numbering over 10,000 in Venice were heavily employed in the bureaucracy and helped maintain Venetian social stability; so it wasn't just anti-corruption but economic patronage of a sort paradoxically. ITTL the practice still lingers, part of the reason it is so desirable for poor Dalamatians to learn Venetian was the prospect of a government job and citizenship rights that comes with ministers finding cheaper alternatives than Venetians.
[4] IOTL Saltpeter mined from bat caves or geological deposits generated more propulsion than the piter-produced nitrates that created more relatively heat than propulsion due to higher charcoal and sulphur contents.
1480
Venetian Republic
We were two companies of three hundred sent to take Carpi, the Elder Pio brother served in the conquest of the Nile and had the foresight to convert his castle into a rampart which our cannonballs just sunk into. Thousands of ducats spent on the latest cast iron techniques, carriages, and one of the finest ballistics expert me and all it took was a pile of dirt. It was a bloody hell fighting up that rampart but we carried the day. it was only after the war that I learned there was an army of four thousand rebels a day's march in Modena; word was that they(Modena) were happy to see the old Ghibellines destroyed... What's a Ghibelline? [1][2]
Bessarion, Combat Engineer captain.
At the beginning of the revolt it was seen as just news pertinent only to the travelers, traders, and the curious while the thousands of soldiers travelling through Venice no different from any other influx of travelers. Then the Estes of Ferrara revolted just across the lagoon, followed by the return of the first hospital ships, and climaxing with an Este raid bombarding the Lido. Due to a combination of better battlefield surgery and Venice being the closest safe haven for all of the Republic's surviving wounded plenty of wounded and dying soldiers filled the streets of Venice giving the situation a sense of gravity. While the situation was a far-cry from the grim days of 1378 when the citizens of Venice starved while awaiting the Genoese slaughter it was now 1487 and a full century had passed for citizens born in safety. The sense of shock and betrayal was in the air and it lubricated the process of drafting for the first time in decades. Meanwhile, as the focal point of the rebellion the Sons of Erasmus was mired in a crisis of discipline as many current or former members and their friends within Terrafirma cities were lynched by mobs. Acts of vengeance for real and perceived wrongs was rampant by the Sons of Erasmus pushing the silent majority towards active rebellion while the armies themselves threatened to devolve into disorganized mobs. Despite the relative autonomy of armies in the field, the Sons of Erasmus was more dependent than any medieval army on its supply train which combined with idealistic Patrician leadership helped reign in the worst excesses in the early days of the rebellion. Just in time too, for most of the incompetent and idealistic Patrician leadership would soon die or be dismissed in the fighting.
For many Terrafirma the troubles started long before 1487 in the 1420s right after Venetian conquest, wages which had been stagnant for nearly two centuries fell precipitously against competition from more efficient and larger Venetian manufacturates. The rising guilds of the 11th-12th centuries, which had led to the creation of well-intentioned if unstable and oligarchic republics had to adapt to Venetian standardized production with wage cuts and/or transitions towards luxury products unprofitable to mass-produce. The process was well-underway by the 1480s yet unlike Venice, which had the legacy of a welfare floor through food subsidies, a vibrant and free jobs market, and bureaucratic jobs restricted to citizens the local governments of Terrafirma were exclusive, obstinate, and non-responsive to Venice and the majority of the populace. The result was dysfunction, bureaucratic chaos, and masses of poor, oppressed, and impoverished urban labourers slowly emigrating to the countryside while the majority sold their loyalty to those that promised them the most. The situation was as bad as the former city-states where bitter feuding between neighbours in a changing economy with the addition of Venice as an universal overlord to rally against.[3]
Historically Venice didn't do much to help its case, unwilling to replace the existing government post-conquest like it did with Dalmatia, Regusa, and the Nile, nor willing to fully integrate the elites like Dalmatia due to the sheer number of mainlander Patricians and Nobles with a culture considered incompatible with the Venetian senate, while also considering the mainland too strategic and threatening for autonomy like the Albanian tribes or Greek despots. Too confident and proud, the heirs of past conquest are unwilling to concede that their parents over-reached nor as willing to adapt. Despite the denial the sheer obstinacy of the mainlanders were already affecting the Patricians, attracted by the profit potential of a rich market and repulsed by official channels have resorted to the more personal networks indulging with the associated marriage and culture-of course this went both ways, many mainland Patricians are also brought into the Venetian system (usually the super-rich) and borne witness to the relatively functional, consistent, and impartial Venetian government as well as Venetian culture.
In contrast to the anger of the people the Patricians of Venice, the Doge, and the State saw the problem from a distance. The treatment of traitors, regardless of time, place, or culture tended to be severe and brutal. Unlike the citizens and residents of the Adriatic, which were relatively well fed by sea and blamed the rebellion for their current food woes the government had been trying to combat the agricultural crisis for nearly two years which lessened the shock of betrayal. It was during a particularly heated senate session Dogaressa Enrica Ruzzini, frustrated by obstinate firebrands, the delay of communicating through her disinterested husband broke with tradition and shouted down proposals to sack the cities of Terrafirma. Reminding them of their failure to prevent the agricultural crisis in the first place and their numerous ties and interests in the mainland Enrica Ruzzini managed to moderate the discourse within the senate away from draconian retribution. Yet perhaps the most important factor in the ultimate treatment of the rebels was the fact that the richest and most Venetianized mainlanders were also the most importance sources of intel and later cooperation in pacified cities. While the Venetian system wasn't able to integrate the numerous and proud mainlanders like it did in its other colonial regions it was at least able to co-op the richest strata of mainland society.
Militarily the mainland was seen by the senate as an endless ocean, it seemed that no matter how many soldiers Venice sent the mainland always seemed capable of mustering more and swallowing them whole. Venetian rectors estimated that had Lombardia not burnt itself out with starvation and infighting the campaign would've taken another year or two and given foreign powers a chance to intervene. Combined with the dire state of saltpeter stocks and the perpetual inability of "piters" (urine processing by farms) to produce powder high-quality enough [4]
In reality the rebels on the mainland were in various stages of paranoid purging and hunger with men flocking to the banners in hopes of securing food. Unlike their own men, which could be led astray by promises of food and amnesty the Sons of Erasmus seemed unwavering with the rebel leadership begrudgingly acknowledging the fact. On paper the rebels had more wealth, men, and arms than the Venetians and in the wake of defeat there was consensus on the need for a professional military but how? The very city-state that they rebelled for is based on the creation and hoarding of privileges over others within their city; what insanity would it be to train and arm the enemies that they had or will exploit and oppress? For many of the guilds and minor nobles which provided the leadership of the rebellion it was easier to blame traditional enemies and scapegoats or resort to the nebulous solution of mercenaries than it was to reassess their "natural" claims of privilege. In many ways the revolts were reactionary, trying to turn the clock back to the city-states, a time made increasingly obsolete by the Venetian empire and military innovations. For the a good deal of the guilds, nobles, and patricians for whom the city-state was the basis of the privilege and economy that they relied on for their welfare and identity there was no peace, merely a truce.
Like the days of the Visconti dominance there was a sense of inevitability to Venetian power and these people rather bend than lose more in a third time resisting. This group were mostly the professionals, merchants, rural landowners, yeoman farmholds, and enterprising noble-Patricians who have adapted and benefited most in the last few decades. Led by the richest mainland patricians and nobles who had integrated into the Venetian system this line of thought was formerly split between those that wanted greater integration in the hopes of participating in and perhaps even taking over the senate with sheer numbers and wealth while other wished for greater autonomy, the latter discredited by the Venetian reconquest.
The bulk of the urban residents were the labouring poor, impoverished by the traditional city-state administration's taxation and oppression with the new addition of Venetian economic competition. Without ideology, split between cities, neighbourhoods, blood, and by their patrons this disorganized mass of misery wallows in the day to day challenges of life and while riotous are mostly limited to local concerns unless pushed to the brink. Without strong loyalties they try to sell their loyalties for a pittance.
Amidst all the politics a small core of well to do academics, clerics, and writers that saw the problem clearly; Terrafirma could be independent if only the cities united in opposition. Brought together by social circles of letters and a shared belief in humanism instead of birth or city-citizenship they represent a vocal minority mostly ignored by the popular humanists pre-revolt but are now gaining a growing audience among the expanding professional classes and nobles. They cared little for what city one was from and are the only group with universal appeal yet they are often are blindsided by their wealthy upbringings mostly neglecting to the masses and fumbling when they try to.
"We are crabs in the bucket, all too busy trying to pull either other down while the fisherman prepares to dine"
Donato Bramante
[1]IOTL 50 ducats=about the annual wage of a Italian skilled worker, 15 ducats for a laborer. Italian income per capita was about 150%-200% that of the rest of Europe and kept at that level until the 16th century when the Netherlands surpassed them. IOTL the cost of living in Venice inflated Venetian incomes, while it wasn't growing the average person did live relatively wealthy lives. ITTL Venice per capita income is still growing spurred on by both intensive improvements in organization, technology, and institutions and the extensive benefits of empire.
[2] IOTL the Ghibellines and Guelphs were factions supporting the Holy Roman Emperor(HRE) and the Pope respectively. There was a social element to the division as the merchants tended to be Guelphs while the nobles that made their money from land holding tended to be Ghibellines. IOTL the Patricians of Venice were all cut from the same mercantile clothe and there weren't powerful large land owners till recently ITTL (yes IOTL there were Patrician lords in Crete, but they were distant and lacing influence in Venice).
[3] IOTL the "original" citizens, or I suppose highest tier pure bloods numbering over 10,000 in Venice were heavily employed in the bureaucracy and helped maintain Venetian social stability; so it wasn't just anti-corruption but economic patronage of a sort paradoxically. ITTL the practice still lingers, part of the reason it is so desirable for poor Dalamatians to learn Venetian was the prospect of a government job and citizenship rights that comes with ministers finding cheaper alternatives than Venetians.
[4] IOTL Saltpeter mined from bat caves or geological deposits generated more propulsion than the piter-produced nitrates that created more relatively heat than propulsion due to higher charcoal and sulphur contents.
For me it is the Republic itself and how its institutions might adapt as we get closer to the modern era.
I'm (slowly) toying with a Venice-centric timeline of my own. Gonna really put pen to paper when I come back from NY this weekend. One of my favorite parts was brainstorming with a friend about what kind of government a hypothetical 20th/21st Century Venice might have. We came up with some fun ideas that may or may not work but are fun to think about.
I'm (slowly) toying with a Venice-centric timeline of my own. Gonna really put pen to paper when I come back from NY this weekend. One of my favorite parts was brainstorming with a friend about what kind of government a hypothetical 20th/21st Century Venice might have. We came up with some fun ideas that may or may not work but are fun to think about.
Go go, Enrica Ruzzini! And the Terrafirma rebels do seem to be in a catch-22 situation: they need to be professional, but the city-state(s) they rebelled for doesn't want a lower-class threat. They only way out that doesn't involve vomiting cash to mercenaries is to be united, but that would put a check on old privileges and pedigrees. I'm surprised that there weren't many cities that follow Venice's example of giving Roman-eque grain subsidies; is it because buying them was too expensive, even OTL?
I can already smell the faraway char of future revolts on these words.
I can already smell the faraway char of future revolts on these words.
Lucius Verus
Banned
Go go, Enrica Ruzzini! And the Terrafirma rebels do seem to be in a catch-22 situation: they need to be professional, but the city-state(s) they rebelled for doesn't want a lower-class threat. They only way out that doesn't involve vomiting cash to mercenaries is to be united, but that would put a check on old privileges and pedigrees. I'm surprised that there weren't many cities that follow Venice's example of giving Roman-eque grain subsidies; is it because buying them was too expensive, even OTL?
I can already smell the faraway char of future revolts on these words.
They do and they don't some like Genoa have turned the grain subsidies into private ventures for profit, buying grain with public money then reselling it and hoarding it at a higher price. Some do handouts, but only based on political/guild loyalties. Many existing ones found it easier to offload the work to the state church, but hamper the state church enough so that the subsidies are enough but no one likes Venice. Others have over the generations simply legislated them out in favor of Patricians.
Many Patrician liberals and elites of the time saw the poor as dumb beasts, to be paid just enough to eat to motivate their lazy asses. Heck we still have this today, clearly the bums downtown are lazy druggies without self-control. The city-state of the 13th century onward was very much zero-sum, Italy was stagnant and no one saw the economic growth of the 10th-12th centuries again so my gain is your loss so to speak. Ignoring the context of poverty and focusing on the result instead. Kinda the opposite of the Sconvolger culture, who are paid to be motivated and definitely less zero-sum.
/Rant
It pisses me off to no end that countless smokers, panhandlers, and abusive people camp outside our office everyday harassing people for change and giggles, I have zero respect for people lying and harassing people to make a living. There's three shelters and food banks just down the street you lying ****. Yet not all of them are there by choice, a good deal of the street people start off as young kids and adults who don't have the know-how, support network, or savings for life that older adults do. I've seen 14 and 16 year old runaways in front of my office beside pimps, hookers, and a racist, mentally ill, urine smelling, crack addict who gets off threatening, insulting, and punching me.
//Rant
I brought the teenagers breakfast, the fact that they choose McDonalds and the sugary stuff worried me but I didn't go further since they didn't want me to. I also gave 220$ to a girl that claimed she was pregnant and trying to get back to Alberta. Might be a scam, leap of faith y'all.
I get the temptation to dismiss them all, or imprison them like China did for the Olympics but it could as well as been me had I had less parental support or were raised without a strong pride in self-reliance.
I can already smell the faraway char of future revolts on these words.
Much like the Risorgimento IOTL, it wasn't the nobles, farmers, or workers that led nationalist revolts but the intellectuals. Much remains to be seen.
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109. Eastern Addictions
Lucius Verus
Banned
109. Eastern Addictions
15th Century
The Near East And Far East
From the late days of the Roman Empire, the fate of Venice was tied to the east for better or worse. Wars, crusades, enormous wealth in trade , numerous conquests, and many eastern people, ideas, and goods made their way into the lagoon - in a both literal and spiritual sense Venice was addicted to the east.
A year and a half into the Servi Rebellion (a confusing name that implies revolts by the Servi as opposed to a revolt by mainlanders) the Venetian stocks of gunpowder were running dangerously low and threatening to hamper military tempo. There were the rare nitre caves and beds alongside the low-quality niter urine converters yet none of these were enough compared to the demands of war. While the Venetians were unaware that the regions of Bahir and Bengal produced nearly 90% of gunpowder in the world, they were aware that gunpowder was measured in carts in Bengal as opposed to baskets in Venice. Taking advantage of Armenian and private Venetian connections Indian credit was secured before the arrival of the first bullion shipments and the Republic had the financial might of both Venice and the Baniya (merchant caste) of the Indus, an advantage noted by the monarchs of Christiandom. The far east, a lucrative if boring topic just years ago was once again the talk of the town.[1][2]
Admits all the clamor within government the existing Pharaoh's canal was brought out by the senate for military purposes but like most of the Nile region was dependent on nature's rhythms. Limited by the river's seasons the Pharaoh's canal was too small for anything but specialized barges and its use limited to flood season when and if the river would overflow. For the original purpose of transporting fresh harvests to the Islam holy cities the canal was profitable but, for military purposes it was insufficient; time and cost savings were marginal when cargo had to be transferred from ship to barges on both ends of the canal plus it ran up against powerful planter interests as it demanded water transfers from the Faiyum oasis. For all the talks of a canal it simply faster and just more economical to invest in the existing ports, caravans, and warehouses from the Red Seas to the Mediterranean. This meant non-Venetian ships, often built at cost in India that were outdated by Venetian standards, yet quite suitable in the lassie-faire and serene Indian ocean. Unlike the Venetians who were born on water the Indians seem uninterested in naval pursuits since it has been over an century since the last Indian naval empire. [3][4]
As with all things Venetian, the military side was often accompanied by an economical side as the "wine of araby" and "Arón" have made their way into the palate of the rich and not so rich. The "wine of Araby" otherwise known as coffee was originally cultivated by the Sufis of Yemen around the turn of the 15th century. Due to the porous barriers between slaves and slave-drivers the drink was eventually introduced to Venetian society by the rare slave that had either escaped and blended into the populace or brought their freedom. Adopted by young Patricians hoping to make a fortune in the plantations and return home as well as the Ealim with their strong ties to the Nile and soon the first coffee houses opened in Rashid and Venice. In order to make it to the highest strata of Venetian society the "wine of Araby" was sold as "farcheno" (pharaoh's wine) in Venice in order to appeal to the ongoing Egyptophile trend that fanciful Ealim writers spun for a living, a myth that persists to modernity in the popular imagination. To the much reduced Islamic scholars still employed it was disheartening to see their former peers turn away from the honorable and pious path to peddle in fanciful lies and ancient heresies. [5]
A plantation was a massive investment of capital and technology and required a wide and specialized variety of skills and knowledge, these slaves and occasional freeman were treated quite well due to the simple rarity of their talent. Distillation had advanced greatly going hand in hand with the modular manufacturing and mass market of Venice which when combined on the plantation with the technical skills and an excess of waste molasses (from sugar refining) led to bored experiments in fermentation. The resultant sweet alcoholic drink was slowly passed around the plantations making its way to the slaves and freed folk gaining the informal name Arón (Rum). Unlike the "wine of araby" unrefined Arón was a rough drink and it took three decades until the drink gained enough interest to secure funding for a proper distillery in Pula, Dalmatia. Unlike the "wine of araby" whose worst effects are subtle and a lack of sleep Arón was high in alcohol content, affordable on an industrial scale, and getting cheaper much to the growing lamentations of moral guardians. [6]
The last and perhaps oldest addictions were spice, pepper, and sugar the latter two of which were declining in prestige. With the cultivation of the Canaries and Madeira in the Atlantic (with considerable private help from private Venetian and Jewish-Venetian ventures) the traditional Venetian sugar monopoly was effectively dissolved as supply increased in volume and sources while profits crashed in Crete and Cyprus in the initial decades. As the price of sugar dropped and the Northern Atlantic gained access sugar was fast becoming a staple of the well-to-do in the Lower Countries, in contrast the traditional planters of Crete and Cyprus found themselves inefficient due to a long complacency, some tried to lobby the senate to shut down/out Atlantic sugar while others attempted to adapt. For the most part the lobbyists were doomed as many Atlantic sugar plantations were funded by both the Flemish outside of Venetian jurisdiction, Venetian plantation investors with deep pockets and powerful friends, and opposed by powerful trade houses unwilling to antagonize the wealthiest trade center of the North. Along with the renewal of the Venetian planter class was the renewal of the sweet grain itself, the drop in the price of sugar was offset by an increase in the number of wealthy Venetian professionals creating greater demand in a several decade long cycle of boom and bust between growing demand driving up prices followed by plantation investments that take decades and will inevitably depress prices as investors realize too late and supply exceeds demand. [7][8]
To complicate matters the succession war between Spain and Portugal in 1475 was a vexing issue for Venice, the Aragonite-Venetian alliance was vital for muscling the papacy, a peaceful Mediterranean, and Patricians had private-vassal relations on the Canary islands with Castile, the Atlantic trade routes whereas Portugal was just as vital for the Atlantic trade routes and the overlord of a good deal of Venetian investments in the form of slaves and plantations. Despite mercantile interests Venice was allied to Aragon with its personal union with Castile and a minimal contribution was required to maintain the alliance, even at the cost of angering the anti-Aragonite French court. The war was inconclusive, with Ferdinand and Isabella consolidating power but losing the ocean-going fleet and Atlantic access along with it. The war soured Venetian-Portuguese relations and while Lisbon couldn't ban Venetian trade to Bruges since they couldn't stop all the smugglers even if they wanted to and they still wanted port fees from Venetian traders they were still able to make their displeasure clear with favors towards Flemish commercial competitors.[9]
Similarly pepper was declining in price due to a more streamlined trade routes to the east (without the Mamluks) allowing for more volume and more quality resulting in declining per unit price. While the volume of pepper imported give it the lion's share of total value imported despite its price it was no longer the sign of prestige as it was a century ago. Taking the prestigious mantle of delicious consumption were more exotic spices such as cinnamon, cassia, cardamom, peppercorn, and turmeric which commanded greater relative price for their volume. The only exception was ginger, which replaced pepper as the staple trade good in Aleppo. [10][11]
In 1495, the remnants of a Portuguese fleet slowly staggers back into Lisbon having returned from the east with a meager cargo of spices and goods from the Calicut coast of India, failing to secure a trade treaty, and having committed several acts of violence and piracy as they didn't have anything the locals wanted. Regardless of the loss the potential for profit was clear and the Portuguese crown made plans for more journeys to the east.[12]
[1] IOTL, until the discovery of Chilean niter deposits in the late 19th century India was the world's foremost producer of quality gunpowder. This was part of the reason China invented gunpowder but lagged behind India in militarizing it due to a lack of economical sources.
[2] IOTL, the British empire was able to leverage loans from India in addition to London, a silent but valuable asset from colonial India.
[3] IOTL until the construction of modern dams the Nile always dealt in water politics between the Faiyum Oasis and the Delta, ITTL is no different. The Faiyum Oasis is replenished by canal with most of its evaporating/lost to the ground, in a sense whatever went to the Faiyum was lost to the Nile.
[4] IOTL the Chola dynasty (300-1279) was the last naval orientated Indian kingdom. Due to a quirk of Indian geography it was hard for internal powers to project naval power into the Indian Ocean and it worked both ways, IOTL it was hard for both the Dutch, Portuguese, and English to convert naval power into results inland.
[5] IOTL coffee was exported out of Ethopia to Yemen, not that the Venetians ITTL know or are concerned.
[6] IOTL rum originated in new world sugar plantations.
[7] IOTL this was more or less the British sugar trade, a bunch of boom and bust cycles between growing demand and delayed oversupply.
[8] IOTL the British had and still has an extensive sweet culture in contrast to many other European cultures, mostly because they were unaware of its corrosive health effects and its sheer abundance. ITTL Venetians are taking up this delicious culture.
[9] Just as IOTL, Venetian help was more evident on land where they simply had to repel the Portuguese invaders while the Venetian navy was meant for the coastal waters of the Mediterranean as opposed to the ocean-going Portuguese fleet.
[10] IOTL the price of pepper was already in decline by the late 15th century before the Portuguese found the route to India. IOTL without much to trade that the Indians wanted the Portuguese could only generate a profit by piracy and extorting traders in the Indian Ocean-disrupting the supply and driving up the cost, something Indian and Muslim traders IOTL resented but simply accepted as they weren't crushing and that night time smuggling along the coast was nearly impossible to prevent. Still IOTL one can only create artificial supply bottlenecks for so long as the Indians adopted Portuguese naval technology as the decades passed and the sheer volume of pepper (which was still the majority of value) shipped drove down prices once again.
[11] Pretty much the same market pattern of spices IOTL except a century earlier.
[12] Similar to IOTL, but 4 years earlier due to historic Venetian investments and easy credit for Portugal.
15th Century
The Near East And Far East
From the late days of the Roman Empire, the fate of Venice was tied to the east for better or worse. Wars, crusades, enormous wealth in trade , numerous conquests, and many eastern people, ideas, and goods made their way into the lagoon - in a both literal and spiritual sense Venice was addicted to the east.
A year and a half into the Servi Rebellion (a confusing name that implies revolts by the Servi as opposed to a revolt by mainlanders) the Venetian stocks of gunpowder were running dangerously low and threatening to hamper military tempo. There were the rare nitre caves and beds alongside the low-quality niter urine converters yet none of these were enough compared to the demands of war. While the Venetians were unaware that the regions of Bahir and Bengal produced nearly 90% of gunpowder in the world, they were aware that gunpowder was measured in carts in Bengal as opposed to baskets in Venice. Taking advantage of Armenian and private Venetian connections Indian credit was secured before the arrival of the first bullion shipments and the Republic had the financial might of both Venice and the Baniya (merchant caste) of the Indus, an advantage noted by the monarchs of Christiandom. The far east, a lucrative if boring topic just years ago was once again the talk of the town.[1][2]
Admits all the clamor within government the existing Pharaoh's canal was brought out by the senate for military purposes but like most of the Nile region was dependent on nature's rhythms. Limited by the river's seasons the Pharaoh's canal was too small for anything but specialized barges and its use limited to flood season when and if the river would overflow. For the original purpose of transporting fresh harvests to the Islam holy cities the canal was profitable but, for military purposes it was insufficient; time and cost savings were marginal when cargo had to be transferred from ship to barges on both ends of the canal plus it ran up against powerful planter interests as it demanded water transfers from the Faiyum oasis. For all the talks of a canal it simply faster and just more economical to invest in the existing ports, caravans, and warehouses from the Red Seas to the Mediterranean. This meant non-Venetian ships, often built at cost in India that were outdated by Venetian standards, yet quite suitable in the lassie-faire and serene Indian ocean. Unlike the Venetians who were born on water the Indians seem uninterested in naval pursuits since it has been over an century since the last Indian naval empire. [3][4]
As with all things Venetian, the military side was often accompanied by an economical side as the "wine of araby" and "Arón" have made their way into the palate of the rich and not so rich. The "wine of Araby" otherwise known as coffee was originally cultivated by the Sufis of Yemen around the turn of the 15th century. Due to the porous barriers between slaves and slave-drivers the drink was eventually introduced to Venetian society by the rare slave that had either escaped and blended into the populace or brought their freedom. Adopted by young Patricians hoping to make a fortune in the plantations and return home as well as the Ealim with their strong ties to the Nile and soon the first coffee houses opened in Rashid and Venice. In order to make it to the highest strata of Venetian society the "wine of Araby" was sold as "farcheno" (pharaoh's wine) in Venice in order to appeal to the ongoing Egyptophile trend that fanciful Ealim writers spun for a living, a myth that persists to modernity in the popular imagination. To the much reduced Islamic scholars still employed it was disheartening to see their former peers turn away from the honorable and pious path to peddle in fanciful lies and ancient heresies. [5]
A plantation was a massive investment of capital and technology and required a wide and specialized variety of skills and knowledge, these slaves and occasional freeman were treated quite well due to the simple rarity of their talent. Distillation had advanced greatly going hand in hand with the modular manufacturing and mass market of Venice which when combined on the plantation with the technical skills and an excess of waste molasses (from sugar refining) led to bored experiments in fermentation. The resultant sweet alcoholic drink was slowly passed around the plantations making its way to the slaves and freed folk gaining the informal name Arón (Rum). Unlike the "wine of araby" unrefined Arón was a rough drink and it took three decades until the drink gained enough interest to secure funding for a proper distillery in Pula, Dalmatia. Unlike the "wine of araby" whose worst effects are subtle and a lack of sleep Arón was high in alcohol content, affordable on an industrial scale, and getting cheaper much to the growing lamentations of moral guardians. [6]
The last and perhaps oldest addictions were spice, pepper, and sugar the latter two of which were declining in prestige. With the cultivation of the Canaries and Madeira in the Atlantic (with considerable private help from private Venetian and Jewish-Venetian ventures) the traditional Venetian sugar monopoly was effectively dissolved as supply increased in volume and sources while profits crashed in Crete and Cyprus in the initial decades. As the price of sugar dropped and the Northern Atlantic gained access sugar was fast becoming a staple of the well-to-do in the Lower Countries, in contrast the traditional planters of Crete and Cyprus found themselves inefficient due to a long complacency, some tried to lobby the senate to shut down/out Atlantic sugar while others attempted to adapt. For the most part the lobbyists were doomed as many Atlantic sugar plantations were funded by both the Flemish outside of Venetian jurisdiction, Venetian plantation investors with deep pockets and powerful friends, and opposed by powerful trade houses unwilling to antagonize the wealthiest trade center of the North. Along with the renewal of the Venetian planter class was the renewal of the sweet grain itself, the drop in the price of sugar was offset by an increase in the number of wealthy Venetian professionals creating greater demand in a several decade long cycle of boom and bust between growing demand driving up prices followed by plantation investments that take decades and will inevitably depress prices as investors realize too late and supply exceeds demand. [7][8]
To complicate matters the succession war between Spain and Portugal in 1475 was a vexing issue for Venice, the Aragonite-Venetian alliance was vital for muscling the papacy, a peaceful Mediterranean, and Patricians had private-vassal relations on the Canary islands with Castile, the Atlantic trade routes whereas Portugal was just as vital for the Atlantic trade routes and the overlord of a good deal of Venetian investments in the form of slaves and plantations. Despite mercantile interests Venice was allied to Aragon with its personal union with Castile and a minimal contribution was required to maintain the alliance, even at the cost of angering the anti-Aragonite French court. The war was inconclusive, with Ferdinand and Isabella consolidating power but losing the ocean-going fleet and Atlantic access along with it. The war soured Venetian-Portuguese relations and while Lisbon couldn't ban Venetian trade to Bruges since they couldn't stop all the smugglers even if they wanted to and they still wanted port fees from Venetian traders they were still able to make their displeasure clear with favors towards Flemish commercial competitors.[9]
Similarly pepper was declining in price due to a more streamlined trade routes to the east (without the Mamluks) allowing for more volume and more quality resulting in declining per unit price. While the volume of pepper imported give it the lion's share of total value imported despite its price it was no longer the sign of prestige as it was a century ago. Taking the prestigious mantle of delicious consumption were more exotic spices such as cinnamon, cassia, cardamom, peppercorn, and turmeric which commanded greater relative price for their volume. The only exception was ginger, which replaced pepper as the staple trade good in Aleppo. [10][11]
In 1495, the remnants of a Portuguese fleet slowly staggers back into Lisbon having returned from the east with a meager cargo of spices and goods from the Calicut coast of India, failing to secure a trade treaty, and having committed several acts of violence and piracy as they didn't have anything the locals wanted. Regardless of the loss the potential for profit was clear and the Portuguese crown made plans for more journeys to the east.[12]
[1] IOTL, until the discovery of Chilean niter deposits in the late 19th century India was the world's foremost producer of quality gunpowder. This was part of the reason China invented gunpowder but lagged behind India in militarizing it due to a lack of economical sources.
[2] IOTL, the British empire was able to leverage loans from India in addition to London, a silent but valuable asset from colonial India.
[3] IOTL until the construction of modern dams the Nile always dealt in water politics between the Faiyum Oasis and the Delta, ITTL is no different. The Faiyum Oasis is replenished by canal with most of its evaporating/lost to the ground, in a sense whatever went to the Faiyum was lost to the Nile.
[4] IOTL the Chola dynasty (300-1279) was the last naval orientated Indian kingdom. Due to a quirk of Indian geography it was hard for internal powers to project naval power into the Indian Ocean and it worked both ways, IOTL it was hard for both the Dutch, Portuguese, and English to convert naval power into results inland.
[5] IOTL coffee was exported out of Ethopia to Yemen, not that the Venetians ITTL know or are concerned.
[6] IOTL rum originated in new world sugar plantations.
[7] IOTL this was more or less the British sugar trade, a bunch of boom and bust cycles between growing demand and delayed oversupply.
[8] IOTL the British had and still has an extensive sweet culture in contrast to many other European cultures, mostly because they were unaware of its corrosive health effects and its sheer abundance. ITTL Venetians are taking up this delicious culture.
[9] Just as IOTL, Venetian help was more evident on land where they simply had to repel the Portuguese invaders while the Venetian navy was meant for the coastal waters of the Mediterranean as opposed to the ocean-going Portuguese fleet.
[10] IOTL the price of pepper was already in decline by the late 15th century before the Portuguese found the route to India. IOTL without much to trade that the Indians wanted the Portuguese could only generate a profit by piracy and extorting traders in the Indian Ocean-disrupting the supply and driving up the cost, something Indian and Muslim traders IOTL resented but simply accepted as they weren't crushing and that night time smuggling along the coast was nearly impossible to prevent. Still IOTL one can only create artificial supply bottlenecks for so long as the Indians adopted Portuguese naval technology as the decades passed and the sheer volume of pepper (which was still the majority of value) shipped drove down prices once again.
[11] Pretty much the same market pattern of spices IOTL except a century earlier.
[12] Similar to IOTL, but 4 years earlier due to historic Venetian investments and easy credit for Portugal.
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This timeline is impressive, the detail amazing.
Seems slightly contradictory or am I just reading this wrong?
Seems slightly contradictory or am I just reading this wrong?
Thanks for the updates, really love all this lore and social aspects.
Only a little thing:
Obelerio lost his seat in 810, after the invasion of Pepin, king of Italy. He and his brother Beato (who was co-doge) were ambiguos toward the frankish king and when a byzantine fleet arrived, Pepin retired his forces, leaving the two doges alone. Obelario tried to flee toward the franks, but he was handed over to the byzantines and imprisoned in Constantinople, while Beato was imprisoned in Zara and died the year after.
Only a little thing:
I just checked, Obelerio wasn't deposed by the byzantines. He reaffirmed his fealty and was rewarded with the title of spatharius ("one who carry the sword").
Obelerio lost his seat in 810, after the invasion of Pepin, king of Italy. He and his brother Beato (who was co-doge) were ambiguos toward the frankish king and when a byzantine fleet arrived, Pepin retired his forces, leaving the two doges alone. Obelario tried to flee toward the franks, but he was handed over to the byzantines and imprisoned in Constantinople, while Beato was imprisoned in Zara and died the year after.
What is this quirk exactly?
Considering that Egypt is apparently all the rage right now, I wonder if the Hieroglyphs will get translated a few centuries early?
Lucius Verus
Banned
Maybe, I meant to say that it was still the majority of trade by total value but the per unit value has declined. They sell more, even if its worth less and the total adds up. What is the contradictory part?
Thx, that was a quick lookup at work. I'll find another instance.
The Rosetta stone was the lucky break IOTL, its really a matter of luck. I'll have to reread my sources, its an interesting matter but I can't give a complete answer right now.
Larger than usual, good infrastructure, organization, and a militant culture in half of the Republic. As for the navy, rather weak in standing power, with an Aragonite alliance there isn't much of a threat in the Mediterranean. I haven't gotten much into it as the region's relatively peaceful, more in the future when its relevant.
I did mean to answer this earlier but got distracted. Apologies.
"While pepper still accounted for the majority of value in Eastern trade the black gold was no longer a sign of wealth or prestige as its novelty declined overtime and supplies became abundant. Taking the prestigious mantle of delicious consumption were more exotic spices such as cinnamon, cassia, cardamom, pepper, and turmeric which commanded greater relative price for their volume." emphasis added
As I said, maybe I'm reading it wrong.
Lucius Verus
Banned
My bad, yes. Its that weird thing where rereading one's own work simply takes me through the thought process of when I wrote it as opposed to fresh eyes. Thank you both.
Also glorious news, my research has revealed that Kosovo coal is low in sulphur with surface deposits, heck it even has lime concentrations that soak up excess sulphur which fouled iron smelted with it! (Steel that is not completely desulfured is brittle, particularly at low temperatures) That let's one skip decades of metal-working development! More details later on the ironworking industry.
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