I applaud this well mannered and abundantly informed statements !
1) This bolded remark is not a sign of hostility ? All right. But it is a sign of ignorant bigoted imprudence! You have just insulted the rest 56% of Indonesian non-Javanese population by generalizing them as Javanese, merely because they are Indonesians. Do you think that it is funny to say anything that holds impressions that Indonesia will be forever reigned by Javanists like Suharto ??? Is it really fun to ignorantly toy with our experiences shamelessly like that ? I thought you know how to behave......
Besides, your "colonists" weren't just of ethnic Javanese, but also Madurans, Balinese, Sundanese, Bugis, Bataks and Minangs.
2) And is it still a reality that West Papua never had connection with at least a certain part of Indonesia ? Is it still is because all Indonesians are Javanese ???
The proposal of independent West Papua though, it had already lost its relevance since Abdurrahman Wahid's administration made the region specially autonomous. That, added with the terrible shape of OPM today, have provided enough reasons for the sane Papuans to stay within the Republic.
And I will now again repeat my point.
While you are right that we were the aggressors, you kept outcrying that while ignoring the point that West Papuan dispute should have been settled in 1950 !! And a little note to you, that the rise of the New Order, along with the crappy Indonesians=Javanese stereotype could have been butterflied away, this way !!!
You could have at least pretend that you know your behavior in a discussion would be limited by the informations you possess.....
3) It is the fact that what the Dutch government had been doing regarding West Papuan dispute was trying to avoid any negotiation with Indonesia regarding the dispute, thus breaking the already-made-agreement !! HJTulp said that West Papuan issue was a democratic one. It was indeed, but it wasn't originally, but originally was a legal issue instead. Apparently all the Netherlands was doing in West Papua after 1949 actually only useful for provoking Indonesia. Therefore, no Dutchman in the whole solar system has the right to blame Indonesian annexation of West Papua, and they should be punished if they would still do it, then should it be the same that should be be given to any Indonesian who dares to deny that Indonesia conquered East Timor !!!
1) The least Indonesian part as in not Indonesian (read Javan) at all?
2) If history is a reason to have 'claims' on other countries, then the Dutch could claim New York, South-Africa, and everything to the South of the Netherlands up to Dunkirque and Luxembourg.
When determing what should have become of West Guinea, shouldn't be the most important thing what's best for the people actually living there?
In my very uninformed opinion that would be independence for the people of W-Guinea, not being annexed by the Indonesians and 'disappearing' into a huge population.
a)That might explain why Indonesia wanted W-Guinea, but doesn't give Indonesia a casus belli to do just that or make it the right thing to do.
b)Ofcourse, because by 1962 and onwards the Dutch were just about ready to retake the entire archipelago.![]()
Grabbing New Guinea was an effort at building a (colonial) empire IMHO by the Indonesians. My previous mentioning of colonists only confirms that.
It's bullocks that for defensive reasons the Indonesians needed to prevent the Dutch from having any base in the vicinity of Indonesia.
3) Then why didn't you write that, instead of this:
Not really the same, is it?Your first post clearly implicates you put the fault of W-Guinea not being independent on the Dutch; whilst if anything it's by sheer Indonesian aggression that those people aren't their own seperate nation.
1) This bolded remark is not a sign of hostility ? All right. But it is a sign of ignorant bigoted imprudence! You have just insulted the rest 56% of Indonesian non-Javanese population by generalizing them as Javanese, merely because they are Indonesians. Do you think that it is funny to say anything that holds impressions that Indonesia will be forever reigned by Javanists like Suharto ??? Is it really fun to ignorantly toy with our experiences shamelessly like that ? I thought you know how to behave......
Besides, your "colonists" weren't just of ethnic Javanese, but also Madurans, Balinese, Sundanese, Bugis, Bataks and Minangs.
2) And is it still a reality that West Papua never had connection with at least a certain part of Indonesia ? Is it still is because all Indonesians are Javanese ???
The proposal of independent West Papua though, it had already lost its relevance since Abdurrahman Wahid's administration made the region specially autonomous. That, added with the terrible shape of OPM today, have provided enough reasons for the sane Papuans to stay within the Republic.
And I will now again repeat my point.
While you are right that we were the aggressors, you kept outcrying that while ignoring the point that West Papuan dispute should have been settled in 1950 !! And a little note to you, that the rise of the New Order, along with the crappy Indonesians=Javanese stereotype could have been butterflied away, this way !!!
You could have at least pretend that you know your behavior in a discussion would be limited by the informations you possess.....
3) It is the fact that what the Dutch government had been doing regarding West Papuan dispute was trying to avoid any negotiation with Indonesia regarding the dispute, thus breaking the already-made-agreement !! HJTulp said that West Papuan issue was a democratic one. It was indeed, but it wasn't originally, but originally was a legal issue instead. Apparently all the Netherlands was doing in West Papua after 1949 actually only useful for provoking Indonesia. Therefore, no Dutchman in the whole solar system has the right to blame Indonesian annexation of West Papua, and they should be punished if they would still do it, then should it be the same that should be be given to any Indonesian who dares to deny that Indonesia conquered East Timor !!!
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