Indonesia the Brave
- Thread starter DMA
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Any POD before the 1900 will result in a monarchaic Indonesia. The last great Indonesian monarchy, the kingdom of Banten, was subjugated by the Dutch in the early 1700, though there were many smaller albeit weaker (and sometimes Colonial puppet) monarchies, whose function was to control the populance.
Nationalism started way back even before the Dutch completely colonized Indonesia, but it was mainly narrow nationalism, not for Indonesia but for the kingdom or whatever narrow cause. Prince Diponegoro was a very iconic figure in the later wars of independence, but he fought only to free the Yogyakarta Keraton (some kind of small kingdom) from the weighty taxes employed by the Dutch and because he was pushed off the elite class as a result of opposing those taxes. Also because his families' grave sites had been removed for the construction of a highway (largely a private cause).
Not because he was saddened by the burdens weighed on the proles of his kingdom.
Sure, parts of Indonesia would enjoy the status of being 'free' - in the sense that they could keep their kings and live their ways of life (but still under Dutch economic rule). But that doesn't equal to freedom for Indonesia, sadly.
Hmm.... that's quite tough question actually.... If it wasn't because of the Japanese occupation most likely Indonesia independence would be happening later than IOTL. Indonesians were radicalized under the Japanese rule which brought more numerous changes to them compared to what the Dutch had brought to them for the previously "3 centuries".
I don't really know where to start this....
But, if you're asking for a country named "Indonesia", then I should tell you about the history of that word here.It can be argued that the word "Indonesia" started to become popular when Suwardi Suryaningrat, the pioneer in Indonesian educational field used it as the name for his press bureau in Netherlands, Indonesisch Pers-bureau in 1913. In 1920 the word "Indonesia" was firstly used officially by the nationalists to refer the whole East Indies and its native inhabitants as one single country and people. In 1926, two years after the replaced "Hindia" in their party's name with "Indonesia", PKI instigated an uprising in order to drive out the Dutch and then set up a Soviet Republic of Indonesia. Certainly it was unsuccessful, considering the split of opinions among the PKI leaders themselves whether should the rebellion be done or not, and also because PKI was still lack of enough mass support, and the rebellion was poorly planned too...
In July 4th 1927, the first true Indonesianist party, PNI (Partai Nasional Indonesia) was founded by Sukarno. And at last, in October 28th the next year, "Sumpah Pemuda" was declared, the event of crystalization of Indonesian identity.... in OTL, at least....
I'd say, Indonesian independence won't be able to be achieved before the beginning of WWI unless.... the Dutch managed to unify Indonesia earlier than OTL! And maybe for quite significantly earlier too but it'd be safely in anytime after 1850, the year that the word "Indonesia" was founded by an English ethnologist, George Earl, for the sake of possibly needed plausibility.
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I'd say, Indonesian independence won't be able to be achieved before the beginning of WWI unless.... the Dutch managed to unify Indonesia earlier than OTL! And maybe for quite significantly earlier too but it'd be safely in anytime after 1850, the year that the word "Indonesia" was founded by an English ethnologist, George Earl, for the sake of possibly needed plausibility.
What about the Indonesians uniting themselves?
Nationalistic views can be transferred through the Dutch, who had also felt alien rule themselves. AFAIK this was what the Dutch public had in mind when they supported the 'Balas Budi' (Return Favor) policy halting some evils, like Cultuurstelsel and uneducation.What about the Indonesians uniting themselves?
Indonesians DID uniting themselves IOTL !
Just who would have thought that that time ? I don't think the Dutch would've expected that East Indian activists would going to propose unity among themselves while they were still under impression of those very activists were still roaring for Javanese state, Sumatra state, Balinese state etc in the earlier part of 1920.If the Dutch would only start "Balas Budi" as OTL, then in order to achieve earlier independence the only way would be to make the Dutch weaker. Perhaps the Dutch got into the WWI mess ? That could might be a good start, no ?
Von Schlieffen did actually include the Dutch in his original Schlieffen plan. Well, if Moltke dared to intrude on Belgium neutrality (Allied with the British) then why not with the Dutch as well? Its got good ports after all. So it could be possible.
Then what? Start a general revolt?
Though it has to be noted that, the Dutch were actually quite pro-Germany, so it's quite feasible (most likely, in fact) if the Dutch would've jumped to the German side in the war. In such scenario though, Indonesian independence wouldn't be achieved to soon after the war though.
If the Entete would've still won, say Hi to British East Indies !
If it's the CPs that would've won, than it won't be so simple. But it's perfectly possible that Indonesia could've won independence faster. But the chance of stronger, and maybe even more benevolent(!) Dutch presence in the country to emerge will be just as possible as the earlier option.
As you said, the British were more benevolent in their occupation
So, an OTL Independence date in Indonesia but a better future one? But if the Dutch were defeated by the Germans, who would reign over Indonesia? I expect some nationalist patriot would seize this chance. Maybe the Sumpah Pemuda (Youths' Oath) happens faster?As you said, the British were more benevolent in their occupation
If the Dutch would be defeated by Germans ? I don't know how to turn the Dutch into anti-Germany though.....
Turning away the Netherlanders' attraction for them would only grant the Brits access of the Netherlands in order to fight the Germans, I think.
But yeah, it's still a way to screw the Dutch out.
If the Dutch would be in CP, then no doubt the security of their colony here would be danger. The only recently consolidated colony would be seized quickly by the British.
As for Sumpah Pemuda and the exact independence day though, I wouldn't know....
Butterflies would surely be in effect.If the Dutch would be in CP, then no doubt the security of their colony here would be danger. The only recently consolidated colony would be seized quickly by the British.
As for Sumpah Pemuda and the exact independence day though, I wouldn't know....
At least after the war. Indonesia would've needed to consolidate and unite much faster for them to be independent while the British are distracted. Can the British move fast enough to capture Indonesia in WW1? Their naval forces were quite distracted.
The good thing about the Dutch being a CP power is that the garrisons in Indonesia will be kept to a minimum to support forces in the ETO.
So who will be the likely leader in the place of Sukarno?
1) And the Dutch navy was a joke. And the country that time was surrounded all by the British spheres: will-be-Malaysia to the north, East Papua inthe East, Australia in the South, and British Raj in the west, or should I say the real problem besides the northern front (don't forget the Gurkhas!). Besides, no one rules the see except them that time anyway.
That, added with minimum Dutch presence in East Indies would ensure her to fall into the British hand.
And as for the Indonesians, should it be noted that Indonesianism was only started to grow in 1920s. No guarantee that different WWI would result in earlier emergence of Indonesianism but yes, anything is possible.
2) Hmm.....
Tan Malaka? Or.... "different" Suwardi Suryaningrat ?
Sukarno can still be there, though.
1) And the Dutch navy was a joke. And the country that time was surrounded all by the British spheres: will-be-Malaysia to the north, East Papua inthe East, Australia in the South, and British Raj in the west, or should I say the real problem besides the northern front (don't forget the Gurkhas!). Besides, no one rules the see except them that time anyway.
That, added with minimum Dutch presence in East Indies would ensure her to fall into the British hand.
And as for the Indonesians, should it be noted that Indonesianism was only started to grow in 1920s. No guarantee that different WWI would result in earlier emergence of Indonesianism but yes, anything is possible.
2) Hmm.....
Tan Malaka? Or.... "different" Suwardi Suryaningrat ?
Sukarno can still be there, though.
1) Indonesia will be a part of the Malaysian Federation!
But sufficient British naval forces were tied up in the ETO. I don't know if the British has troops to spare for the occupation. Well, in OTL our independence was in the period known as the 'Vaccum of Power'...2) Tan Malaka would be the most likely candidate. Maybe some of the older kings? (Hope it doesn't throw up monarchy again
) Suwardi Suryaningrat didn't have the political savvy. He could become Minister of Education.I'd sooner see the Japanese have forces available to scoop up parts of the Dutch East Indies.
"Van de regen in de drup" for the Indonesians I'd say.
Don't know how that translates in English, but in German it'd be something along the lines of "vom Regen in dem Traufe kommen".
"Van de regen in de drup" for the Indonesians I'd say.
Don't know how that translates in English, but in German it'd be something along the lines of "vom Regen in dem Traufe kommen".
I'd sooner see the Japanese have forces available to scoop up parts of the Dutch East Indies.
"Van de regen in de drup" for the Indonesians I'd say.
Don't know how that translates in English, but in German it'd be something along the lines of "vom Regen in dem Traufe kommen".
What does it mean? Google Translator just came up with : "From the rain in the worse".
What? The Japanese scrape up enough forces in WW1 to invade the DEI? Wait, you're a Dutchman...
1) Indonesia will be a part of the Malaysian Federation!
2) Tan Malaka would be the most likely candidate. Maybe some of the older kings? (Hope it doesn't throw up monarchy again
Tan Malaka would be the most likely candidate. Nevertheless, it wasn't without a reason why that certain declaration was called "Sumpah Pemuda", they were just so... young... our grandpops that time...
Earlier unified Nusantara (let's consider the fact that the state should not necessarily be named "Indonesia", by which means that we're now able to look for pre-1850 PoDs) by anybody would certainly provide more time for Nusantaran to gather the strength to commence independence movement. The earlier the better. In fact, earlier unified Nusantara would perfectly make it possible the chance for earlier independence.Maybe Majapahit assimilating with Islamic cultures (of course, you need to find a successor to Gadjah Mada)? We did have a lot of territories back then, and it wasn't just Indonesia that was under Majaphits' heels.
What would be the alternative name to Indonesia? Melayunesia?
I'd sooner see the Japanese have forces available to scoop up parts of the Dutch East Indies.
"Van de regen in de drup" for the Indonesians I'd say.
Don't know how that translates in English, but in German it'd be something along the lines of "vom Regen in dem Traufe kommen".
Because holding grudges is good for you....
Because, no matter who would've won WWI, Japan will always become super power
And also, that was why I have proposed for earlier unified Indonesian archipelago. Post-1900 PoDs will most likely not going to provide more time for Indonesians to gain strength to gain independence before 1945. Japanese rule over Indonesia certainly had quite a role in forming Indonesians into being prepared to fight their revolutionary war for the 4 years after that period ended.
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Maybe Majapahit assimilating with Islamic cultures (of course, you need to find a successor to Gadjah Mada)? We did have a lot of territories back then, and it wasn't just Indonesia that was under Majaphits' heels.
What would be the alternative name to Indonesia? Melayunesia?
Cool Islamified surviving Majapahit is cool
I always like that idea However, Majapahit's "Nusantara" was a rather different concept compared to today's Indonesianist Nusantara. Today's Nusantara doesn't mean "non-Javanese vassal states of Negara Agung". What Majapahit and Diponegoro inspired to the modern nationalists was primarilly the spirit only.
Or you mean a surviving Majapahit Empire that will be turned into a republic once it reached modern times ?
However, it will still be of a different soul from our Indonesia. Sumpah Pemuda was not for a Java-wankery!
And the last but not least, I wouldn't say Melayunesia would be plausible choice of name if one would choose to pick a PoD around Majapahit era.
Cool Islamified surviving Majapahit is cool
However, Majapahit's "Nusantara" was a rather different concept compared to today's Indonesianist Nusantara. Today's Nusantara doesn't mean "non-Javanese vassal states of Negara Agung". What Majapahit and Diponegoro inspired to the modern nationalists was primarilly the spirit only.
Or you mean a surviving Majapahit Empire that will be turned into a republic once it reached modern times ?
However, it will still be of a different soul from our Indonesia. Sumpah Pemuda was not for a Java-wankery!
And the last but not least, I wouldn't say Melayunesia would be plausible choice of name if one would choose to pick a PoD around Majapahit era.
Yeah. That second part. Everything has to evolve. Maybe like pseudo-England monarchy, where there's still a king and there's also a representative government. But of course it has to undergo the period named 'enlightened despotism' or something quite similar.
Indonesia could then have several democratic revolts, led by some radical left wing guy (Sukarno?)