Indonesia isn't united by Dutch in 19th Century

Note that Indonesia was only a concept in modern times. In 1820, it was still largely unclaimed by foreign powers, with the Netherlands only controlling part of Java, a bit of Sumatra and the "Spice Islands" of the Moluccas.

What would be the likely colonial outcome if the Netherlands proved incapable of retaking control of Java and then take a century to assume control of the rest of modern Indonesia?

What would be the ethnic and religious composition without the mass Javanese and Mandurese emigration to Sumatra, Bornea, Bali, Timor, Irian Jaya, etc?

Would there be a local ruler (Java, maybe) which conquered the rest or would one or would it be another European Power? Multiple European Powers all taking a cut?

Thanks.

 
I'm guessing multiple Europeans. The Dutch will keep some, obviously, the English will take more from Malaya, the Spanish might come over from the Philippines, someone will claim New Guinea (not that this is a good idea, but that never stopped anyone), and maybe the Portuguese expand a bit more from their Timorese bases. For all we know the gap created by less Dutch presence will attract French or American attention too, though I guess the Americans would be too alte for all but New Guinea, and by that time Japan/Germany/Italy might try for a slice too (with Japan the least likely to just get it, of course).
 
I'm guessing multiple Europeans. The Dutch will keep some, obviously, the English will take more from Malaya, the Spanish might come over from the Philippines, someone will claim New Guinea (not that this is a good idea, but that never stopped anyone), and maybe the Portuguese expand a bit more from their Timorese bases. For all we know the gap created by less Dutch presence will attract French or American attention too, though I guess the Americans would be too alte for all but New Guinea, and by that time Japan/Germany/Italy might try for a slice too (with Japan the least likely to just get it, of course).

Maybe the Solomons as well by 1900 if the Americans were in a colonial mood.
 
First, there would likely still be some sort of pan-Malay nationalism, of the kind that led Indonesia to pick Malay as its sole official language. It'd be unlikely to lead to any political unity the way India managed to take over French and Portuguese Indian colonies: Indonesia failed to take over East Timor, and Indonesia and Malaysia are happy being separate states. (Just don't tell Singapore, which is paranoid about an Indonesian invasion.)

Second, it's possible Makassar would remain a major entrepot if there were a colonial power based in Sulawesi. The Javanese orientation of the Dutch East Indies meant that no Dutch-controlled city had a chance to compete with Singapore. In contrast, a power with its capital in Makassar might have prevented the city from declining to peripheral status. (Well, it would've still been peripheral - the core was Europe, the US, and Japan. But it would've been central for Malaya.)
 
Note that Indonesia was only a concept in modern times.

You could say the same of virtually every nation-state in South East Asia, Malaysia is a very young concept, and the fact that we still have nine kings points to how each state was separate in the past. Plus the Philippines never really accepted our claim on North Borneo while the border of Malaysia-Thailand is porous due to the peoples being virtually interchangeable.

Then again, there are some who dream of a united Nusantara (both Malaysia and Indonesia combined, I suppose Singapore and Brunei may be in it too). If the Dutch don't unite Indonesia, could there be a chance for the British to take parts of Sumatra, and have them join Malaya/Malaysia during Independence? :D
 
You could say the same of virtually every nation-state in South East Asia, Malaysia is a very young concept, and the fact that we still have nine kings points to how each state was separate in the past. Plus the Philippines never really accepted our claim on North Borneo while the border of Malaysia-Thailand is porous due to the peoples being virtually interchangeable.

Then again, there are some who dream of a united Nusantara (both Malaysia and Indonesia combined, I suppose Singapore and Brunei may be in it too). If the Dutch don't unite Indonesia, could there be a chance for the British to take parts of Sumatra, and have them join Malaya/Malaysia during Independence? :D

Here, I'd say that Malaysia was a new concept.

Malaya wasn't, though (I think).
 
Then again, there are some who dream of a united Nusantara (both Malaysia and Indonesia combined, I suppose Singapore and Brunei may be in it too). If the Dutch don't unite Indonesia, could there be a chance for the British to take parts of Sumatra, and have them join Malaya/Malaysia during Independence? :D

Lol at OTL's Singapore joining such a grouping. Singapore hates Malays and both Malaysia and Indonesia hate Chinese people.
 
A gross oversimplification verging on cartoonish, and such a thing would not apply for a pre 1900 POD.

It's a gross oversimplification, but much of it is true. All over Southeast Asia, ethnic Chinese had lots more money than everyone else, so they were normally resented by the local populace. Eventually, lots lost lots of land.

See Vietnam, Cambodia, etc.
 
All over Southeast Asia, ethnic Chinese had lots more money than everyone else, so they were normally resented by the local populace.

Bigots will be bigots, I fail to see why everyone must be tarred with the same brush, unless you really do believe it's "normal" for us all to resent the Chinese.

Oh well, at least this is an enlightening exposure of racial stereotypes...so Chinese are rich, Malays are resentful, gotcha!
 
#NotAllChineseSingaporeans and #NotAllMalayMalaysians.

With that out of the way: Singapore discriminates against Malays in immigration policy (the creator of Demoncratic Singapore got jailed for saying that, arguing that given higher Malay birth rates, the Malay population proportion shouldn't be falling). Somehow, completely magically, Raffles and Hwa Chong are almost entirely Chinese, and so are honors classes at NUS. At the other end, Malaysia has quotas on ethnic Chinese students at university - a fair number of Chinese-Malaysians end up emigrating to Singapore, despite Singapore's own quotas on foreigners.

Basically, take my previous statement as equivalent to "Israel hates Arabs" or "the US hates black people" or "Japan hates Koreans and Chinese" or "Europe hates Muslims" or "English Canada hates Francophones."
 
At the other end, Malaysia has quotas on ethnic Chinese students at university - a fair number of Chinese-Malaysians end up emigrating to Singapore, despite Singapore's own quotas on foreigners.
"
And that's why some of the famous actors in Singapore are actually Malaysian Chinese.
 
Then they have to abandon the Philippines to Koxinga.

Seriously I don't get this obsession over an independent "native" Philippines shtick. The island weren't even united before the Spaniards, and any unification would just be X- group from Luzon or Mindanao imposing their own system onto the other regions.
Rant over Now

Anyways to get back to the thread. Wouldn't the French and English be the ones to benefit the most from the lack of Dutch supremacy in the region? The other power would just be to late in the game to make any major gains, plus the Spanish have other things to worry about closer to the Atlantic.
 
Seriously I don't get this obsession over an independent "native" Philippines shtick. The island weren't even united before the Spaniards, and any unification would just be X- group from Luzon or Mindanao imposing their own system onto the other regions.
Rant over Now

Anyways to get back to the thread. Wouldn't the French and English be the ones to benefit the most from the lack of Dutch supremacy in the region? The other power would just be to late in the game to make any major gains, plus the Spanish have other things to worry about closer to the Atlantic.

Luzon and Sulu were both under Majapahit Suzerainty before its decline..but Luzon remained majority Hindu-Buddhist even if it was under Bolkiah suzerainty so it is possible for the land to become a Majapahit refugia in case the Spanish gets the core Majapahit regions.
 
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Seriously I don't get this obsession over an independent "native" Philippines shtick. The island weren't even united before the Spaniards, and any unification would just be X- group from Luzon or Mindanao imposing their own system onto the other regions.
Rant over Now

And what has that to do with Koxinga?

In order for OTL Indonesia to be important to the Spanish, that place must offer more value compared to any Chinese Silver trade to abandon Luzon besides the natural resources Luzon offers.

Now if you somehow switch the places of philippines and indonesia with magic to be nearer China than Luzon you might be able to make Spanish invade Indonesia instead of Luzon.

Besides, no one in maritime south east asia was even united as per OTL present day nations.
 
And what has that to do with Koxinga?

In order for OTL Indonesia to be important to the Spanish, that place must offer more value compared to any Chinese Silver trade to abandon Luzon besides the natural resources Luzon offers.

Now if you somehow switch the places of philippines and indonesia with magic to be nearer China than Luzon you might be able to make Spanish invade Indonesia instead of Luzon.

Besides, no one in maritime south east asia was even united as per OTL present day nations.

Actually, the Spanish would have never considered to conquer the Philippines if it united with Portugal, the Portuguese were busy vassalizing the Malay pagan states and have been christianizing the people of Nusa Tengarra and have access to the Spices, the Spanish only realized the Silver Trade after they failed to find spices in the Philippines and failed acquire the native gold in Luzon.

The people of the Gold Producing parts of Luzon were HOSTILE to the Spanish to begin with even if the Spanish learned about it.
 
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