Yeah top of sane SuhartoisFrom the President Secretariat YT channel Jokowi visit Try Sutrisno today at RSPAD
Unlike Hartono
It seems he will gone forever
Yeah top of sane SuhartoisFrom the President Secretariat YT channel Jokowi visit Try Sutrisno today at RSPAD
I'm a bit confused now; assuming that Primakov accepted Maskhadov's 11th October 1999 proposal what is the current status of Chechnya? Was the OTL planned free economic zone opened or not in TTL? (https://reliefweb.int/report/russian-federation/primakov-claims-breakthrough-relations-chechnya). If yes, I can perfectly see Chechnya being reintegrated inside Russia with a great degree of autonomy like OTL Tatarstan or OTL modern Chechnya.Feigning hurt feelings, Primakov jokingly asked whether Try did not think Primakov’s attitude was genuine. Try said he acknowledged that Primakov was an expert on Arab countries and acknowledged Primakov’s stance in Chechnya which had given the opportunity for President of the Chechen Republic Aslan Maskhadov to attempt to clamp down on the hardliners. At the same time, Try asked Primakov to acknowledge that Try’s stance against radicalism was also genuine and that whatever benefits Indonesia got for its stance was a happy bonus.
I wonder if it will be expanded to either South Africa or Turkey ; BRICIS or BRICIT maybe?The topic moved from Islam to economics. Putin brought up BRICI
So if I understand correctly TTL bigger 9/11 distracts the USA enough to allow Milosevich to survive, right?Try then brought back matters to within Russia’s vicinity and asked Primakov about the United States and the United Kingdom’s intentions towards Yugoslavia. Primakov laughed it off and said that the White House and Downing Street are not happy that President of Yugoslavia Slobodan Milosevic went ahead, held snap elections, and won while their attention was occupied by Afghanistan. More seriously, Primakov said that “McCain and Blair are fishing around for a trigger” but that NATO as a collective will not fall in line.
NiceThe final set of agreements for the trip were inked which included:
-Dorodjatun and Gref signed an agreement which commits both the Indonesian and Russian governments to facilitate a joint venture between Indonesia’s state-owned resources company Antam and Russia’s Rusal. Antam and Rusal will jointly construct a smelter to process bauxite into alumina in West Kalimantan.
-Anthony and Gref signed an agreement which would see Indonesian fast-moving consumer goods gain access to the Russian market starting with Mayora biscuits.
-Wismoyo and Maslyukov signed an agreement. 40 BMP-3 IFVs will be heading the Marine Corps’ way while 12 export versions of the Mi-24 assault helicopters will be heading to the Air Force (joining 14 Mi-17s transport helicopters procured and delivered with the 12 Sukhoi Jets in 2001).
Fully agree with this statementIt will be a bit of a complicated relationship this one. Russia is China’s ally but Indonesia wants to strengthen its military and Russia thinks it has a long history of selling weapons to Indonesia and might be well-placed to take advantage even though Indonesia and China’s relationship are not so good.
Maybe medium to heavy types and attack helicopters given to Air Force while lighter types like Bell-412 and light attack helicopter (H145M or little bird) given to the Army for Air Assault and Attack/Escort. And maybe if we buy Su-30 we should get the one similar toMKI derivative. Lets just say in the story the ABRI-AU has seen how much Su-30 MKIs India going to buy. And from that thinking of the economic of scale and long term upgrades by Indian Air Force. Indonesia should buy them so in the long run we could either purchase or jointly develop our Su-30s to Super Sukhoi upgrade that the Indians are working on. Our relationship with Russia probably going to be same if not a bit different to India and Russia since Russia is the primary weapons provider to India but India has some issues with China while Russia also have a good relationship with China. So it would be interesting to see how Russia would balance us between China.11th September 2002:
The first thing President Try Sutrisno did when he arrived at Sheremetyevo Airport and having been welcomed by Russian Minister of Foreign Affairs Igor Ivanov on the tarmac was visit the US Embassy in Moscow and lay flowers there to mark the 1st Anniversary of the September 11th Attacks the previous year. Despite the insistence that no room was found on the schedule for Try to pay his respects in Berlin, rumor spread throughout the Indonesian press corps that this was done on purpose; for the President to openly send a signal to Washington that he was in Moscow.
Try had dinner with the Indonesian community living in Russia at the Indonesian Embassy in Moscow. Giving his talk, Try said that it was important in the current international environment that Indonesia knows what the “poles” of the multipolar world were thinking and that this was the purpose of the trip he is on.
12th September 2002:
At the Kremlin today, Try was officially welcomed by President of Russia Yevgeny Primakov. With the ceremonies out of the way, Primakov invited Try for talks. Minister of Foreign Affairs Ginandjar Kartasasmita and State Secretary Edi Sudrajat went in with Try. Primakov asked Prime Minister of Russia Vladimir Putin and Ivanov to accompany him.
The opening exchange was about the consequences of 9/11 for Islam. Primakov said that though he sympathized with what happened in New York, Chicago and Washington, he was disconcerted at the Islamophobia in the United States and Europe. Try said that the best way to counter this is for Muslims to be seen to be at the center of the struggle against radicalism. He politely told Primakov that telling Islamic nations that they do not have to prove anything is just encouraging those who tended to want to do nothing.
Feigning hurt feelings, Primakov jokingly asked whether Try did not think Primakov’s attitude was genuine. Try said he acknowledged that Primakov was an expert on Arab countries and acknowledged Primakov’s stance in Chechnya which had given the opportunity for President of the Chechen Republic Aslan Maskhadov to attempt to clamp down on the hardliners. At the same time, Try asked Primakov to acknowledge that Try’s stance against radicalism was also genuine and that whatever benefits Indonesia got for its stance was a happy bonus.
“There are limits to that happy bonus does it not, President Try?” prodded Putin with a knowing smile “Moratorium on the repayment of debt, Kidd-Class Destroyers, and pressuring Freeport to divest its shares to you but no F-16s?”
“We’re still exploring the possibility of whether or not it’s no F-16s with a full stop or no F-16s yet”, joked Ginandjar.
Primakov asked Try what was Indonesia’s relationship like with the Islamic world which “does not share your attitude”. Try said that it was “cordial and proper”. Primakov laughed and asked whether that was why Try was bringing Indonesia closer to Iran. Try only smiled.
The topic moved from Islam to economics. Putin brought up BRICI and said that Brazil is keen to hold a BRICI Summit in the event Roseanna Sarney wins the Brazilian Presidential Election. Primakov said that he was all for BRICI, saying that as the largest emerging economies, the five nations must act as a bloc to stand up to pressure from the western economies. Try said that he agrees in principle with what is being proposed saying that the idea should be advanced that one can be responsible economic managers and not be a part of the Washington Consensus. At the same time, Try said that he can advance this argument better alongside Brazil and India at the G-15 and alongside Russia on bilateral meetings such as these.
“So the problem is being seen to be on the same side as the People’s Republic of China?”, asked Primakov.
Try asked whether Primakov was seeking to place BRICI above the G-8 in importance. Primakov replied it would not hurt Russia to be in both before turning back the scrutiny on Try, warning him that the West’s reaction to his effort to put AFTA back on the agenda is to pressure Indonesia to also get moving on APEC tariff reductions. At that point, Primakov argued, Indonesia should seek “safety in numbers” with the other major emerging economies in the world rather than developing economies in Asia, Africa, and South America.
China was the next topic. Try said that he cannot accept China, whilst not being a Southeast Asian nation and not being a member of ASEAN, in effect having 3 votes whenever ASEAN meets. He also cited China’s failed political intervention in Vietnam and the backing it gave to the Khin Nyunt regime in Myanmar. Primakov said that he and Try will have to agree to disagree on China saying that China shares his views on the world being multipolar and that China is a large importer of Russian oil and gas.
Primakov asked how Indonesia and China’s relationship will progress in the future. Try replied that he is not seeking military conflict with China and that all he wanted to do was check China’s influence.
Ivanov spoke out saying that Russia’s interest in Southeast Asia is its lease on Cam Ranh Bay in Vietnam which runs out in 2004 which Russia is interested in renewing but which Vietnam is not interested in renewing. Rather bluntly, Primakov said that financial incentives have been offered. Ginandjar said that if the Vietnamese do not want to extend the lease then there is nothing that Indonesia can do to help. Try half-jokingly said that he and Primakov will have to agree to disagree on Vietnam.
Try then brought back matters to within Russia’s vicinity and asked Primakov about the United States and the United Kingdom’s intentions towards Yugoslavia. Primakov laughed it off and said that the White House and Downing Street are not happy that President of Yugoslavia Slobodan Milosevic went ahead, held snap elections, and won while their attention was occupied by Afghanistan. More seriously, Primakov said that “McCain and Blair are fishing around for a trigger” but that NATO as a collective will not fall in line.
“What would Russia do, Mr. President?” asked Try.
“Whatever happens, we will not be the aggressors”, replied Primakov.
When the meeting broke up, Try and his delegation was given a tour of the Kremlin. After marvelling at the architecture and a lunch back at the hotel, Try and the Indonesian delegation travelled to Kubinka Air Base. There, Try was welcomed by Russian Minister of Defense Yuri Maslyukov and together with Minister of Defense and Security Wismoyo Arismunandar, and Commander of ABRI Wiranto they walked around the air base inspecting the aircrafts parked there; various Sukhois including the Sukhoi 30, flown there so that Try could get a look at it.
With cameras from both the TVRI and RTR close by, Try took off his suit and jumped into the cockpit of the Sukhoi, asking questions to the Air Force officers there.
13th September 2002:
The Indonesian delegation got a kick when they were told that they were going to the White House, though the White House in question was the offices of the Prime Minister of Russia. Try accompanied by Ginandjar Kartasasmita, Wismoyo Arismunandar, Minister of Economics and National Development Planning Dorodjatun Kuntjoro-Jakti, Minister of Trade Anthony Salim, Head of BKPM Mari Pangestu, and Edi Sudrajat sat across the conference table from Putin, Igor Ivanov, Yuri Maslyukov, Minister of Economic Development and Trade Herman Gref, and Chief of Staff of the Presidential Executive Office Yuri Zubakov.
The final set of agreements for the trip were inked which included:
-Dorodjatun and Gref signed an agreement which commits both the Indonesian and Russian governments to facilitate a joint venture between Indonesia’s state-owned resources company Antam and Russia’s Rusal. Antam and Rusal will jointly construct a smelter to process bauxite into alumina in West Kalimantan.
-Anthony and Gref signed an agreement which would see Indonesian fast-moving consumer goods gain access to the Russian market starting with Mayora biscuits.
-Wismoyo and Maslyukov signed an agreement. 40 BMP-3 IFVs will be heading the Marine Corps’ way while 12 export versions of the Mi-24 assault helicopters will be heading to the Air Force (joining 14 Mi-17s transport helicopters procured and delivered with the 12 Sukhoi Jets in 2001).
After Friday Prayer and lunch, Try and the Indonesian delegation visited the GUM Shopping Center. Hearing his guide explaining the history Try was reminded of the Sarinah Shopping Center in Jakarta and how the government was constructing a New Sarinah shopping center next to the Hotel Indonesia.
The day ended at Kremlin with a State Dinner hosted by Primakov. In their addresses Try and Primakov were full of praise for each other with Try saying that Russia, under Primakov’s leadership, is at the forefront of a significant shift in international politics from a unipolar to a multipolar moment.
14th September 2002:
The morning saw Try call on Primakov at Novo Ogaryov, the official residence of the President of Russia. He found Primakov eager for a photo-op as a lot of cameras were allowed in. After some words of farewell, Try and the Indonesian delegation went to Sheremetyevo Airport where the Presidential Airplane awaited.
“Can’t wait to get back home”, Try said to the flight attendants as he boarded.
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It will be a bit of a complicated relationship this one. Russia is China’s ally but Indonesia wants to strengthen its military and Russia thinks it has a long history of selling weapons to Indonesia and might be well-placed to take advantage even though Indonesia and China’s relationship are not so good.
I’ve always written Try’s ABRI as still being Army-led (or Army-dominated) but being more friendly towards the other branches. In OTL, both the Mi-24s and the Mi-17s became part of Army Aviation instead of the Air Force.
And we’re back in Indonesia again next.
Maybe Primakov asked Try about the East Timor experience, with Chechen characteristics ofc. And i liked the economic prospects, could be in the near-mid future a revitalization of Indonesia-Vladivostok sea lanes (Not only Jakarta but other ports)? The trade exchange wouldnt be the same as the Chinese, but could bring interesting numbers.I can perfectly see Chechnya being reintegrated inside Russia with a great degree of autonomy like OTL Tatarstan or OTL modern Chechnya.
Yes but actually all of them belong to G-20. As i see, the most closer to BRICSI is Turkey. South Korea could go to G-8.Maybe BRICSMIST
An interesting view, it would be on the Indian interests to strengthen its main partner against China.Indonesia should buy them so in the long run we could either purchase or jointly develop our Su-30s to Super Sukhoi upgrade that the Indians are working on.
She doesn't even have a majority, idk why they are so confident considering PKPI, PPP, and ABRI alone have a simple majority iirc and we haven't even mention the "utusan daerah" that are no way are all in for TututPKPB maybe majority but Tutut become president difficult. She maybe need major sacrifice on negotiation with another party sadly it means she still lost towards Pak Tri.
Remember there is Utusan Daerah (Regional Delegates) which represents the provinces and the Utusan Golongan (Group Delegates) which represents the non-partisans from various walks of lie. Basically ITTL, they are more independent rather than being automatically grouped with Golkar. And their elections are designed so that they are sending people who are deemed to be impartial to the MPR rather than those who will automatically vote for a certain candidate though some will obviously have their own leanings.She doesn't even have a majority, idk why they are so confident considering PKPI, PPP, and ABRI alone have a simple majority iirc and we haven't even mention the "utusan daerah" that are no way are all in for Tutut
26th April 2000:
At the DPR, the focus of the Special Committee on Election Bills shifted to the Composition and Status of the MPR, DPR, and DPRD Bill. Minister of Home Afairs Harsudiono Hartas was present to explain the bill which had the following features:
DPR and DPRD:
*The DPR to consist of 500 members: 425 elected members and 75 appointed ABRI members (same as present)
*The DPRD to consist of between 40 and 100 members depending on the population size of the province or the regency (same as present).
*The chairman and vice chairmen of the DPR (D) to be elected via voting. If there is only one candidate they are declared elected by acclamation.
MPR:
*The MPR to consist of 1000 delegates. 500 of which will be DPR members.
*The Regional Delegates to consist of 5 delegates per province depending on population. Total 135 Delegates.
*The ABRI Delegates to consist of the 75 ABRI DPR members plus 50% (38). Total 113 delegates.
*The political parties and Golkar will receive extra delegates based on the amount of votes received during the elections.
*The leftover seats will be allocated to the Group Delegates representing various elements of society.
The above provisions will be the same as present. The following however will be new provisions.
*The Regional Delegates to be elected by the Provincial DPRD elected at the next election with 80% of the votes required.
*The Groups Delegation to be elected by the DPR prior to the end of its term with 80% of the votes required.
Depends on the definition of self-funded. I wonder if some of the funding could (on top of the obligatory IMO complimentary Umrah for the some of the migrants, to show they are affluent enough to move to Irian Jaya) probably go to one party under a top secret agreement.😉😉 Surely the funder knows that an election is coming.“They’re self-funded transmigrants, Mr. President”, replied Indra.
Oh man, looks like my favourite story arc has ended its hiatus. Wonder if he knows about Try's attempts to leading the Islamic World to participate on the Global War on Terror, also would love to know about his stance on the Multipolar Moment.Indra Bambang Utoyo took the opportunity to report to the President of an “interesting development” in his area; namely an increase of Acehnese transmigration to Irian Jaya.
“They’re transmigrating to Irian Jaya with the government’s transmigration program?” asked the President.
“They’re self-funded transmigrants, Mr. President”, replied Indra.
And then the President went on to discuss other things thinking nothing more of it.
I'm sure nothing bad will come out of this development at all. No relation to certain movements, no sir.Indra Bambang Utoyo took the opportunity to report to the President of an “interesting development” in his area; namely an increase of Acehnese transmigration to Irian Jaya.
“They’re transmigrating to Irian Jaya with the government’s transmigration program?” asked the President.
“They’re self-funded transmigrants, Mr. President”, replied Indra.
And then the President went on to discuss other things thinking nothing more of it.
Huh, that event will happen soon. Fortunate indeed.P/s: Some of migrants are really lucky to move out of Acheh, especially if they are from the coast.
Milosevic doesn’t hold the elections in 2000 claiming that the US is funding the opposition. He is backed by Primakov in this. Russia and China provides aid to Milosevic.So if I understand correctly TTL bigger 9/11 distracts the USA enough to allow Milosevich to survive, right?
Yes, I wonder how will Indonesia and Australia’s relationship progress ITTL? Will there be plenty of “slaps” along the way?Also, Korea is an interesting option for increasing coal exports, which Indonesia has a lot - another slap to Australia 😁