Ah but since indo military procurement has not changed since ORBA, you guys should remember that the winner will probably be the side which can give the largest kickback š
Which in this era will probably be ex sovyet gear on firesale. Though NATO drawdowns could also be a prime source. Especially french and italian gear
We want to ensure the world we are cough cough ābebas aktifā cough cough and will not take cough cough āany sideā cough cough.
and for your suggestion I would avoid the Spruance and maybe get The kidd class immediately because I saw the timeline when Taiwanese Navy get it and apparently they purchase it in 2005 (even tho interest exist before that they just got the ship at that time. So I just thought what abt we make Taiwanese purchase Spruance and make us get the Kidds. And for frigates OHP is good but I just thought get kortenaer since itās more General Purpose ship (I thought the country should get a GP frigate first in line with the uncertainty of Post Cold War World where a lot of countries still trying to adjust itself in the uncertainty in particular after 9/11. I could see that the country would start thought to buy a more specialized ship after 2010s because itās the start where we would see the Chinese in particular to have a big growth on their Armed Forces (Navy in particular).
Aside from the Knox, Kidd, and OHP, the ROC-N also has Lafayette-class frigates from France.
Down south, Australia retired their OHP variant - the Adelaide-class - and sold it to Chile. Do you think the Indonesian Navy look into those Adelaide frigates?
Aside from the Knox, Kidd, and OHP, the ROC-N also has Lafayette-class frigates from France.
Down south, Australia retired their OHP variant - the Adelaide-class - and sold it to Chile. Do you think the Indonesian Navy look into those Adelaide frigates?
Counter productive because RAN in IRL decommissioned those ships at the earliest of 2016 after I think the lead ship of their Hobart class went into service. So the best focus for future surface combatant from Frigate to Destroyer also for the country would be from US or Europe while for lighter surface combatants like corvettes can be purchase from old warsaw pact countries. I felt frigates and destroyers is better from old US Navy or any European Frigates in particular because in IRL lots of Euro or US ships is actually still supported for upgrades and stuff. And while Russians stuff also but I felt getting Euro or US is better because their equipment support is just more better for the benefits of future upgrades.
Counter productive because RAN in IRL decommissioned those ships at the earliest of 2016 after I think the lead ship of their Hobart class went into service. So the best focus for future surface combatant from Frigate to Destroyer also for the country would be from US or Europe while for lighter surface combatants like corvettes can be purchase from old warsaw pact countries. I felt frigates and destroyers is better from old US Navy or any European Frigates in particular because in IRL lots of Euro or US ships is actually still supported for upgrades and stuff. And while Russians stuff also but I felt getting Euro or US is better because their equipment support is just more better for the benefits of future upgrades.
So Indonesian Navy could probably look at Lafayette-class frigate (Singaporean variant known as the Formidable-class). Do you think the Navy would also get AEGIS destroers in case of Chinese ballistic missiles?
Ah but since indo military procurement has not changed since ORBA, you guys should remember that the winner will probably be the side which can give the largest kickback š
Which in this era will probably be ex sovyet gear on firesale. Though NATO drawdowns could also be a prime source. Especially french and italian gear
Ah yes I almost forgot the politics in the Armed Forces. I really hope the operations in Philippines (while just an Insurgency operation) would slap the armed forces to reality that some of their equipment (in particular for the Navy and Air Force) is old and maybe obsolete that would see the need to change them urgently probably. And maybe would also open their eye a bit maybe to change some of the organization of the Armed Forces.
Ah yes I almost forgot the politics in the Armed Forces. I really hope the operations in Philippines (while just an Insurgency operation) would slap the armed forces to reality that some of their equipment (in particular for the Navy and Air Force) is old and maybe obsolete that would see the need to change them urgently probably. And maybe would also open their eye a bit maybe to change some of the organization of the Armed Forces.
Saying this as a Filipino, even the AFP of 2021 is not strong enough to stand-up against China. Never mind in the 1990s when all projects including F/A-18s, F-16s, and Harpoon missiles were cancelled due to the Asian Financial Crisis. The 2000s was the time the AFP was stagnant in terms of modernization. It only seriously started in 2015. I wonder it will be for TTL.
So Indonesian Navy could probably look at Lafayette-class frigate (Singaporean variant known as the Formidable-class). Do you think the Navy would also get AEGIS destroers in case of Chinese ballistic missiles?
Aegis are either too expensive or too political. I will admit if we get an aegis the navy would probably on par with the JMSDF but I felt the fear the country would felt that itās too political but weāll see for that. For alternatives tho we could get that Euro I-Mast/SMART-L mix or the Kronos/EMPAR/SMART-L mix. No problem getting the aegis but I just wanna know does the country would thought itās too expansive or political or not.
Saying this as a Filipino, even the AFP of 2021 is not strong enough to stand-up against China. Never mind in the 1990s when all projects including F/A-18s, F-16s, and Harpoon missiles were cancelled due to the Asian Financial Crisis. The 2000s was the time the AFP was stagnant in terms of modernization. It only seriously started in 2015. I wonder it will be for TTL.
I never really know abt what happen for the Philippines Armed Forces but in IRL itās just seems that they are really umm under equipped. Because Itās just seem really lately at the mid of the earlier decade that Philippines starting wanting to grow its Armed Forces but itās a very long long way. But I guess weāll see what happen for now I guess the 4 South East Asian Tigers (Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines, and Vietnam since in the TL they are the countries that are working together for the region).
I think I went ahead of myself a bit because a couple of months ago I started a what if for this TL Indonesia armed forces organization for 2010s and beyond because seeing how the country is economically and also starting to willingly playing more in foreign affairs so I thought it needed a stronger equipped military. Would you guys like to see it or nah?
(Notice I did not talk with the author abt this and when I made this my reasoning was because Iām bored and started making this to pass the time. So maybe take this as a fan project. And umm sorry a bit for the author if you see this as a wrong thing)
I think I went ahead of myself a bit because a couple of months ago I started a what if for this TL Indonesia armed forces organization for 2010s and beyond because seeing how the country is economically and also starting to willingly playing more in foreign affairs so I thought it needed a stronger equipped military. Would you guys like to see it or nah?
(Notice I did not talk with the author abt this and when I made this my reasoning was because Iām bored and started making this to pass the time. So maybe take this as a fan project. And umm sorry a bit for the author if you see this as a wrong thing)
4th February 2002:
At the Presidential Palace today, President Try Sutrisno today swore in the following:
*Ir. Indra Bambang Utoyo as Minister of Transmigration
*Ir. Cacuk Sudarijanto as State Minister of State-Owned Enterprises
*H. Rusnain Yahya as State Minister of Development of Eastern Indonesia and Special Economic Zones
*Ir. HM. Ridwan Hisjam as State Minister of Urban Development
*Ir. Al Hilal Hamdi as State Minister of Research and Technology
*Dr. Ir. Bambang Subianto as Junior Minister of Finance
*Ir. Tadjuddin Noer Said as Junior Minister of Cooperatives
He also swore in the following:
*Lt. Gen. Endriartono Sutarto as Head of the BNPP
*Herwidayatmo SE., MBA as Head of the IBRA
*Drs. Jusuf Kalla as Ambassador to Japan
*Lt. Gen. Johnny Lumintang as Ambassador to the Philippines
At a DPR Hearing, Chairman of the KPU HBL Mantiri reported on election preparations but came under questioning by DPR Member Fadli Zon (PKPB) about the ālegalityā of the Presidentās recent āpolitical maneuversā. Mantiri said that unless the President has decided to intervene, openly or otherwise, with the way the KPU is run to help one of the 4 political parties to win, he could not point to any illegality. When Fadli asked whether there was an advantage in being an incumbent, Mantiri said it was a matter for political scientists.
5th February 2002:
Minister of Finance Marāie Muhammad and Junior Minister of Finance Bambang Subianto came out of a meeting with the President. Marāie said that the job description of the junior ministerās position has been changed from non-fiscal matters falling within the purview of the Department of Finance to coordinating and maximizing revenue collection whether it is tax revenue, non-tax revenue, duties, and excise. Bambang said that the President has a great ambition for this nation and that itās his job to collect the necessary revenue for the President to achieve his goals.
Speaking at a PKPI DPR Candidatesā Training Camp in Ujung Pandang, South Sulawesi, Chairwoman of the PKPB Tutut Soeharto said that the President, the government, and the PKPI has their backs to the wall and nothing changes that.
6th February 2002:
The President accompanied by Minister of Religion Quraish Shihab today visited Soekarno-Hatta International Airport to inspect those who were departing for Mecca for the Hajj. After shaking hands and talking with pilgrims, the President and Quraish went into a VIP room where they were joined by Minister of Foreign Affairs Ginandjar Kartasasmita, Minister of Mining and Energy Djiteng Marsudi, and Chief of BAKIN Ari Sudewo.
Ginandjar produced a letter from Saudi Arabian Minister of Foreign Affairs Saud bin Faisal. The letter was an official written complaint from the Saudi Government saying that so long as the Indonesian government ādoes not shift its stance on the LIPIAā, the Saudi Government could not allow work on Exor II to continue.
Ari Sudewo said that the monitoring and gathering of intelligence on LIPIA will not cease and the government could not compromise on that. Ginandjar however said that Indonesia needs something to offer to the Saudis as a compromise otherwise work will not continue on Exor II. Quraish advised that whatever the government tries to do, it should not do it during Hajj pilgrimage season when a lot of Indonesians are over in Saudi Arabia.
The meeting came to a dead end with the President asking Djiteng to make sure that Exor III and Exor IV are still in progress.
7th February 2002:
The President met today with Vice President JB Sumarlin, Minister of Economics and National Development Planning Dorodjatun Kuntjoro-Jakti, Marāie Muhammad, Governor of BI Boediono, State Secretary Edi Sudrajat, and Cabinet Secretary Hayono Isman. The following were discussed:
*Dorodjatun reported that that the United States economy is showing signs the recovery from the 2001 recession. The effect on the Rupiah is that the exchange rate has climbed up again and as of today is Rp. 4,027= $1. That said, the European Union and Canada will still experiencing the aftereffects of the recession throughout the first months of 2002. Japan is also still in recession, a combination of the effects of the United States going through recession and Prime Minister Koichi Katoās structural reforms.
The President asked what would be the effects on the Indonesian economy. Sumarlin said that at the moment things are quite secure from an economic standpoint saying that whatever investments from Western Europe were secured prior to the recession taking effect last year so that there is no question of foreign investors wanting to delay setting up its operations so the prospect is āquite promisingā for 2002. Boediono said that inflation is under control and that the fuel prices were adjusted at the right moment.
*Marāie said that fiscally Indonesia was in a good position. A combination of internal reforms in the Directorate General of Taxation, improved collection, and good economic conditions had contributed to the increased amount of taxpayers the President cited in the Draft Budget speech a few weeks ago. This strong position wil be further bolstered at the start of the next financial year when the 10 year moratorium on debt payments takes effect.
*Boediono reported that the first credit applications from the priority sectors as listed in the January 2002 Policy Package have begun to flow in. The President instructed Boediono that the state banks must make sure the creditworthiness of all those applying to borrow money under this program as well as making sure that the credit is paid back in due course. The President also asked Boediono that the state banks must also ensure that it is still within its capacity through these loans. That some sectors are designated as a priority does not mean a free-for-all.
8th February 2002:
Departing early in the morning from Jakarta, the President arrived at the edge of the Jakarta-Cikampek Toll Road for a ceremony. There, accompanied by Minister of Public Works Rachmat Witoelar and Governor of West Java Muzani Syukur, the President inaugurated:
Speaking to the press gathered there, Rachmat highlighted the fact that Cikopo-Palimanan is a long stretch of Toll Road, some 116 KM in length. He explained that as far as the Trans-Java Toll Road was concerned, the West Java portion of the Trans-Java is nearly completed, some of the Central Java portion is completed, and work continues in East Java to complete the first stretch of the Trans-Java Toll Road located there.
9th February 2002:
At a meeting of ICMIās National Leadership Council, Chairman of ICMI Nurcholish Madjid announced that he had gotten the signatures of 35 organizations, including ICMI, on his petition declaring that these organizations will be neutral in the coming political contests and asking the government to acknowledge this neutrality. Nurcholish said that he will be taking this petition to the President in the next few days.
11th February 2002:
Minister of Forestry and Environment Barnabas Suebu and Head of BKPM Mari Pangestu held a joint press conference. Barnabas reminded all holders of forest concessions that their deadline for ensuring that their concessions comply with the rules will be 31st July 2002. After that their concessions will be revoked and will be taken over by the state-owned forestry enterprise, Perhutani. Mari said that owing to the combined size of the concessions, the BKPM will allow domestic and/or foreign and domestic joint venture to then take over these concessions from the Perhutani.
When asked if there have been improvements in regulatory compliance, Barnabas smiled and said yes. Some illegal sawmills have closed down or have applied for permits so that it can become legal. Much however is still left to be desired from some of the ābig namesā.
The President and Minister of Education Fakry Gaffar dropped in at Jakarta State University (UNJ) and visited a lecture for students who will be earning degrees in early childhood education. Speaking to the press afterwards, Fakry said that the government is serious about including kindergarten as part of what constitutes primary education and that starting from the next school year there will be a noticeable expansion in the availability of kindergarten places and the opportunity for parents to have their children attend kindergarten.
12th February 2002:
Nurcholish Madjid, accompanied by Chairman of the Indonesian Cooperatives Council (Dekopin) Sri Edi Swasono, Chairman of the PHRI Jakob Oetama, Chairman of the Indonesian Young Businessmen Association (HIPMI) Bambang Hariyadi Sukamdani, and Chairman of the FKPPI Bambang Wiyogo, today visited the Presidential Palace.
The President was flanked by Minister of Home Affairs Harsudiono Hartas and Edi Sudrajat on one side of the table as Nurcholish explained the situation from the other side. Nurcholish acknowledges the progress that has been made in all aspects of life as a nation and feels that the nation has taken a step forward by where it is unlikely that Indonesia will ever again have a sole presidential candidate.
At the same time, the āintensity of the contest aheadā must not be such that the nationās various organizations are torn apart because individuals within them are throwing their support behind the President or Tutut Soeharto or Megawati Soekarnoputri. It is not healthy considering these organizations must be able to work with the government regardless of the results of the 2002 Elections and the 2003 MPR Session. Individuals, including those belonging to organizations, can throw their support behind the PKPI, the PKPB, the PPP, and the PNI but these organizations must retain their non-partisanship.
Accordingly, Nurcholish said, he has taken it upon himself to go around and ask for the leaders of the organizations affix their signatures on a petition declaring their organizations to be neutral in the 2002 Elections and the 2003 MPR Session and calling for that neutrality to be acknowledged by the government. Nurcholish said that the petition has not been signed by all organizations which exists in Indonesia but enough major organizations has signed on for it
Nurcholish took the petition from his folder and handed it to the President who studied it.
āCak Nur, first of all I just to thank you for this and your other contributions to public lifeā he said āAnd I do acknowledge that as we go into a partisan period in our political cycle there are those who would like to choose not to take sides.ā
There was a pause as the President looked at the list of the organizations which have signed the petition.
*The Indonesian Muslim Intellectuals Association (ICMI)
*The Indonesian Farmers Harmony Association (HKTI)
*The All-Indonesian Fishermensā Association (HNSI)
*The Republic of Indonesia Teachersā Association (PGRI)
*The All-Indonesian Workersā Union (SPSI)
*The Indonesian Chamber of Commerce and Industry (Kadin)
*The Indonesian Womenās Congress (Kowani)
*The Indonesian Youthsā National Congress (KNPI)
*The Republic of Indonesia Civil Servants Corps (Korpri)
*The Indonesian Journalistsā Association (PWI)
*The Indonesian Cooperatives Council (Dekopin)
*The Indonesian Young Businessmen Association (Hipmi)
*The Indonesian Sons and Daughters of Retired Officers Communication Forum (FKPPI)
*The Indonesian Hotels and Restaurants Association (PHRI)
*The Veteransā Legion of the Republic of Indonesia (LVRI)
*The Press Enterprises Association (SPS)
*The Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI)
*The Alliance of Churches in Indonesia (PGI)
*The Indonesian Bishops Council (KWI)
*The Representatives of Indonesian Buddhists (Walubi)
*The Indonesian Dharma Hindu Association (PHDI)
*The Indonesian Confucianism High Council (Matakin)
*The Islamic Studentsā Association (HMI)
*The Islamic Studentsā Association Alumni Corps (KAHMI)
*The Indonesian Engineersā Association (PII)
*The Indonesian Doctorsā Association (IDI)
*The Indonesian Petroleum Association
*The Indonesian Exporters Businesses Association (GPEI)
*The All-Indonesian National Importers Association (GINSI)
*The All-Indonesian National Construction Contractors Association (Gapensi)
*The Indonesian Red Cross (PMI)
*The Indonesian Scoutsā Movement
*The Indonesian Advocatesā Association (IKADIN)
*The Indonesian Film Artistsā Association (PARFI)
*The Indonesian National Private Radio Broadcastersā Association (PRSSNI)
āI know that there are organizations that want to avoid being torn apart and there are those who just genuinely donāt want to take sides, but you do realize there are some on here that are just being opportunistic, right?ā asked the President.
āI donāt deny thatā, said Nurcholish āItās just the case that in this case I am prioritizing those who would like to not take sides over their motives, whatever those motives may be.ā
The President studied Nurcholishās face and for a few seconds there were tension in the room, the tension only subsided when the President told Nurcholish that he accepted the latterās point. Much to the relief of Nurcholish the President moved on to asking that the organizations which have signed the petition commit themselves to making sure that neutrality does not mean that they do not vote.
āEven if you donāt want to openly take sides, I would ask that you still vote and encourage others to vote as wellā, the President said to Nurcholish āIt would do damage to your cause if a result of this petition, people become encouraged to not vote and join the Golputā.
āOf course, Mr. Presidentā, replied Nurcholish āI myself individually will still vote, will those who are members of the organizations who signed the petitions. Itās the organizations that are remaining neutral, the individuals in it will still be part of the political process though it wil be up to them if they want to declare their political stance openly or not.ā
āVery well, thenā, said the President āI hope you will be making that clear.ā
The meeting ended very cordially and even the President could be seen joking around with his guests. When the meeting broke up and the President was out of sight, however, Nurcholish complained to the others about how he knew that the President was going to suspect him of encouraging people not to vote under the guise of ānot taking sidesā.
When Nurcholish and his fellow petitioners exited the Presidential Palace, they found that the press were asking them whether they were encouraging people to not to vote and they had to once again explain their position. They were also finding that the press was already nicknaming them The Petition of Thirty Five because there were 35 organizations which had signed on to the petition.
13th February 2002:
For the first time since 1967, Chinese New Year is celebrated openly in Indonesia. Chairman of Nahdlatul Ulama Abdurrahman Wahid wrote an open letter which was published in the nationās most prominent newspapers saying that while others may have their own reasons for supporting the President, his reason for continuing to support President Try is because he has shown himself to be a president for both the majority and the minority.
14th February 2002:
In a morning press conference at her residence, Chairwoman of the PNI Megawati Soekarnoputri said that she welcomed the Petition of 35 because in the current political situation and with a more sophisticated populace, it simply would not do for everything to be mobilized in favor of the ruling party. Elections will now be won or lost on the basis of which party can make the argument that they best represent the people.
When asked about the absence of NU and Muhammadiyah as well as the Indonesian Forestry Businessmen Association (APHI) and the Indonesian Panelwood Association (APKINDO) from the petition's signatories, Megawati said that this was to be expected. The NU and Muhammadiyah, along with others had openly thrown in their lot with the President whilst APHI and APKINDO, on the basis of their association with Bob Hasan, had thrown in their lot with Tutut Soeharto.
āThe organization whose stance I am most curious in as we get closer to the election is ABRIā, said Megawati āIt is too big and major of an organization in this country to not state clearly and plainly where they will stand at the next election. Whose side are they on? The people of Indonesia want to know.ā
15th February 2002:
At the Presidential Palace, after a meeting with the President, Harsudiono Hartas held a press conference. He read out a statement on behalf of the President expressing his understanding if individuals and/or organizations feel that they do not want to take part in the partisanship of an election campaign but asks that when election day arrives, all those wishing to remain neutral will use their voting rights. The President also asks that no individuals be penalized by organizations if they would like to openly take sides.
A foreign journalist asked if the President could have taken a stronger stand against the Petition of 35.
āI think itās not about a strong stand or a weak standā, said Harsudiono āBut I want to give you some food for thought.
The last time a group people sent a petition to an Indonesian President they ended up being unable to borrow money from a bank and not being able to leave the country, so far the Government had not made any statement that would indicate itās not happy with the petitioners, the only statement so far is the one I read just now.
What about other presidential candidates? Thereās definitely going to be more than one at the MPR Session next year.
As far the election goes, weāre 3 months out and so far what have we seen, the PKPB gaining ground on the PKPI. Yes, I said it, letās be blunt about itā¦ā
āWhat about Ibu Megawatiās comments yesterday about wanting to know where ABRI will stand in the election?ā asked another member of the press.
āThatās a matter for ABRI which is beyond my jurisdictionā said Harsudiono āABRI will answer for itself.ā
After some more waiting, ABRI gave a clue that it will answer for itself. Commander of ABRI Wiranto arrived for a meeting for the President and came out half an hour later. He was immediately asked about what he thought of Megawatiās comments.
āIāll take it as inputā, said Wiranto āIām just inside to discuss the agenda of the ABRI Leadership Meeting next week with the President for which he has given approval.ā
āWill ABRIās stance at the election be discussed?ā asked a member of the press.
āWell weāll be discussing the election and many other thingsā, replied Wiranto.
---
Regarding the organizations that have declared themselves neutral here, Iāve just gone with some of the most prominent because after a while it was getting to the Dentistsā Association, Veterinarianās Association etc. however there are some missing deliberately because they have chosen to ātake sidesā.
The general theme is that for these organizations, itās something of a new territory because for 3 decades they had been directed to support Golkar during the elections. But now Golkar doesnāt exist and whether because they genuinely want to be neutral, avoid their organization being torn apart, or they want to be opportunistic, theyāve signed on to this petition.
The nickname of Petition of Thirty Five parallels the Petition of Fifty, an OTL petition handed to Soeharto in 1980 asking him to, among other things, stop equating himself with the national ideology of Pancasila and stop pushing ABRI to take the side of the government. Soeharto did not respond well to it and essentially made life hard for the signatories of the petition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petition_of_Fifty
Golput stands for Golongan Putih (White Group) and itās a movement consisting of people who donāt want to vote. The name Golput is this groupās way of thumbing its nose at Golkar, the Soeharto Regimeās ruling party.
I always focus on foreign affairs stuff yet seeing this in the TL about domestic affairs always interested me because you can see within it that the country is actually growing more then ever.
Finally caught up with the latest post after binge reading in the last several days
To OP: I have to say that this is one of the most interesting Indonesia TLs I've encountered, lots of informed details and enough variation to make it engaging (especially after you incorporated foreign affairs into the equation).
I do have some comments though, mainly related to infrastructure projects:
Is there any specific reason why the development of railway network is not on TTL gov't priority? OTL Indonesian railway only started to be revitalized in the early 2010s, and even then most railway projects in Indonesia are focused on upgrades to existing network (electrifying, double-tracking) rather than expanding, with the only major expansion being the Makassar-Parepare line in Sulawesi, while works in Kalimantan and Sumatra have stagnated. A typical OTL passenger rail trip between Palembang and Tanjungkarang in Lampung can take up to 10 hours due to its slightly westward route and its sharing tracks with coal freight, while an OTL road trip through the toll roads between the two cities can be as short as 4 hours (!)
On Jakarta commuter railway network (KRL), I think a case could be made to reform the system earlier (in OTL the reorganization of routes began in 2011) and make it more integrated with the MRT, perhaps even to the point of physically connecting the networks and run through services (a la Tokyo) to increase efficiency.
What is the state of ports and other maritime infrastructure? I recall that there was some reference to them but I didn't remember if there were any specific policies or projects.
IIRC the Jakarta Bay reclamation project was already in the gov't plan before the Asian Financial Crisis. What is the state of the plan ITTL? Also, while we're at it, how would the govt deal with land subsidence and urban sprawl in and around the capital city? As I understand it, TTL regional cities are better developed and able to divert some urbanization from Jakarta, but even with a slightly fewer population, Jakarta would still have to deal with its water scarcity (OTL Jakarta was only able to provide ~60% of its population with piped water access, with the rest relying on groundwater, which exacerbates the subsidence problem.)
Not a question, but OTL Trans-Kalimantan Highway (Southern Route) was completed in 2016, while Trans-Papua is almost wholly connected (though some segments are not fully paved yet) as of the writing of this post. IIRC you mentioned somewhere in TTL 1999 (or 2000?) that the President opened the Jayapura-Wamena segment during his visit to Irian Jaya. In OTL, this segment was connected (but not paved yet) in 2018. As for Trans-Kalimantan, that route has plenty of bridges, including the one under construction across Balikpapan Bay (though as of now the route takes a detour to provincial road around the bay). There are also several bridges in Sumatra that got delayed/postponed indefinitely OTL such as Musi III, which was to be a high clearance cable-stayed bridge or a tunnel crossing the Musi River and Kemaro Island, as part of Palembang Eastern Ring Road (in fact, OTL govt went with Musi IV, V, and VI first while Musi III remained a mere plan). I'm interested in how you would incorporate these projects into the TL.
That's a possibility, considerring that in OTL, Indonesian gov have shown interest into Super Ćtendard in the late 80s/Early 90s.
But I amn't familiar with Indonesia armed forces, so maybe?
That's a possibility, considerring that in OTL, Indonesian gov have shown interest into Super Ćtendard in the late 80s/Early 90s.
But I amn't familiar with Indonesia armed forces, so maybe?
Agree that it is possible, yet I kinda thought maybe better to wait and get the Rafale beyond the 2010s so Indonesia could get the better variant of it (F3/F3R) and would open to an upgrade to F4 standard. It could be cheaper that way so we donāt have the burden to pay some of the development fee and upgrade (if the french request it) if we got it in F1 or F2 standard.
Finally caught up with the latest post after binge reading in the last several days
To OP: I have to say that this is one of the most interesting Indonesia TLs I've encountered, lots of informed details and enough variation to make it engaging (especially after you incorporated foreign affairs into the equation).
I do have some comments though, mainly related to infrastructure projects:
Is there any specific reason why the development of railway network is not on TTL gov't priority? OTL Indonesian railway only started to be revitalized in the early 2010s, and even then most railway projects in Indonesia are focused on upgrades to existing network (electrifying, double-tracking) rather than expanding, with the only major expansion being the Makassar-Parepare line in Sulawesi, while works in Kalimantan and Sumatra have stagnated. A typical OTL passenger rail trip between Palembang and Tanjungkarang in Lampung can take up to 10 hours due to its slightly westward route and its sharing tracks with coal freight, while an OTL road trip through the toll roads between the two cities can be as short as 4 hours (!)
On Jakarta commuter railway network (KRL), I think a case could be made to reform the system earlier (in OTL the reorganization of routes began in 2011) and make it more integrated with the MRT, perhaps even to the point of physically connecting the networks and run through services (a la Tokyo) to increase efficiency.
What is the state of ports and other maritime infrastructure? I recall that there was some reference to them but I didn't remember if there were any specific policies or projects.
IIRC the Jakarta Bay reclamation project was already in the gov't plan before the Asian Financial Crisis. What is the state of the plan ITTL? Also, while we're at it, how would the govt deal with land subsidence and urban sprawl in and around the capital city? As I understand it, TTL regional cities are better developed and able to divert some urbanization from Jakarta, but even with a slightly fewer population, Jakarta would still have to deal with its water scarcity (OTL Jakarta was only able to provide ~60% of its population with piped water access, with the rest relying on groundwater, which exacerbates the subsidence problem.)
Not a question, but OTL Trans-Kalimantan Highway (Southern Route) was completed in 2016, while Trans-Papua is almost wholly connected (though some segments are not fully paved yet) as of the writing of this post. IIRC you mentioned somewhere in TTL 1999 (or 2000?) that the President opened the Jayapura-Wamena segment during his visit to Irian Jaya. In OTL, this segment was connected (but not paved yet) in 2018. As for Trans-Kalimantan, that route has plenty of bridges, including the one under construction across Balikpapan Bay (though as of now the route takes a detour to provincial road around the bay). There are also several bridges in Sumatra that got delayed/postponed indefinitely OTL such as Musi III, which was to be a high clearance cable-stayed bridge or a tunnel crossing the Musi River and Kemaro Island, as part of Palembang Eastern Ring Road (in fact, OTL govt went with Musi IV, V, and VI first while Musi III remained a mere plan). I'm interested in how you would incorporate these projects into the TL.
Thank you so much. Yours is the comment Iāve been expecting since I know youāre going through the chapters.
I pretty much just go to the Indonesian Presidentās youtube channel to research what kinds of activities he does. Thatās how Iām able to mix up meeting with ministers, swearing people in, visiting the regions and visiting other countries.
Let me try to address your questions as best I can:
-Iāll answer the ports, railway, ports and maritime infrastructure first. There is some work done on railway and ports but I think the focus as far as transportation goes is on toll roads (to increase economic activity) and airports (easier for tourists to get around). I would think itās a matter of priority and also a leftover of when Try and co. were fighting the Asian Financial Crisis where they focused on toll roads to encourage economic activity and relied on tourism for economic recovery.
Iāll keep the railway reforms in mind.
-The Jakarta Reclamation is tricky. I havenāt made up my mind if it is something happening steadily in the background, something happening slowly because there are other priorities or if itās ITTLās proyek mangkrak. I apologize if thatās a writerās answer rather than a technical one.
I think weāll get more on urban development issues whether that be urban sprawl or subsidence. There is a Ministry of Urban Development ITTL but it is still focused on things like sidewalks and parks.
-You must be from South Sumatra, ya. You seem to know quite a bit about what needs to improved and the infrastructure there. ITTL Palembang does well if you look at the entry for 11th January 2001. Itās getting a lot of airplane traffic from Jakarta bringing with it commerce and attracting even people from Lampung to come there.
Iāll keep the info in mind on the Musi bridges and what can be done in terms of the railway in South Sumatra.
-From a writersā perspective, I can say that a lot of the infrastructure projects under construction ITTL are of the āquietly happening off-screen until Try visits it to inaugurate itā variety. I do have a list of projects that will be completed on a word file and am always on the lookout of infrastructure in OTL which could hve been completed earlier.
Since youāve binge-read the TL I have a couple of questions for you (everybody is welcome to answer this):
-Any memorable moments in the TL?
-Are there any ācharactersā whose developments you are following?
I always focus on foreign affairs stuff yet seeing this in the TL about domestic affairs always interested me because you can see within it that the country is actually growing more then ever.
From experience I do seem to get a lot more views when foreign affairs is discussedš¤£ but at the same time, ITTL Indonesia wouldnāt be able to flex its muscles on the international stage if it doesnāt get the domestic affairs right.
I enjoyed many moments, but if i must choose one, it would be the African Trip - a consolidation of Indonesia leaving behind the crisis and expanding the markets.
Now about characters, i dont know anything about indonesian modern history, so i dont have a favourite. But i feel Gindajar as a key character ITTL. Will be interesting to see how this develops.
From experience I do seem to get a lot more views when foreign affairs is discussedš¤£ but at the same time, ITTL Indonesia wouldnāt be able to flex its muscles on the international stage if it doesnāt get the domestic affairs right.
Indeed, domestic affairs should be taken first in order for foreign nations to properly look Indonesia as a major power.
For Jakarta's Reclamation, we should note that it would become Indonesia's largest reclamation project. That meant large sums of money with careful considerations of environmental impacts. Although fresh water problems can be solved, there's still the pollution treatments, land ports (Tanjung Priok, Sunda Kelapa, Ancol) to be detemine also.
Looking at the common trend, I think Jakarta's reclamation would still be a topic on the 2010s. There are many aspects Indonesia needs to improve, the Reclamation is still too far-fetched even with a better Indonesia ITTL.
-The TL is long enough to make it hard to choose for a specific moment, but I'd say the most memorable was (surprisingly) the dissolution of Golkar. I mean, I think we all know from the start that you were going to have Try led the country out of the economic crisis and have him do some political reforms, but I just didn't expect that Golkar would be straight up dissolved. You did well in building up the tension and I also love the way you write TTL reactions to the event, which must've been somewhat worldview-shattering for them.
Indeed, domestic affairs should be taken first in order for foreign nations to properly look Indonesia as a major power.
For Jakarta's Reclamation, we should note that it would become Indonesia's largest reclamation project. That meant large sums of money with careful considerations of environmental impacts. Although fresh water problems can be solved, there's still the pollution treatments, land ports (Tanjung Priok, Sunda Kelapa, Ancol) to be detemine also.
Looking at the common trend, I think Jakarta's reclamation would still be a topic on the 2010s. There are many aspects Indonesia needs to improve, the Reclamation is still too far-fetched even with a better Indonesia ITTL.
Oh also, I forgot to add that the reclamation should really either be done completely or not done at all. The abandonment of the project IOTL (after only a couple of islands) is actually more environmentally damaging than building the whole island set, IIRC, because it disturbs the coastal erosion equilibrium of the bay. The most environmentally friendly option is not to do it at all of course, but IMO for a city as dense as Jakarta, and with its limited space for expansion, reclaiming some lands isn't really a farfetched idea, it might even be more beneficial compared to OTL Jakarta rapid east-west-south expansion at the expense of productive agricultural lands and water catchment area. I don't think any other Indonesian cities come close to Jakarta for this need of expansion IOTL.
Oh also, I forgot to add that the reclamation should really either be done completely or not done at all. The abandonment of the project IOTL (after only a couple of islands) is actually more environmentally damaging than building the whole island set, IIRC, because it disturbs the coastal erosion equilibrium of the bay. The most environmentally friendly option is not to do it at all of course, but IMO for a city as dense as Jakarta, and with its limited space for expansion, reclaiming some lands isn't really a farfetched idea, it might even be more beneficial compared to OTL Jakarta rapid east-west-south expansion at the expense of productive agricultural lands and water catchment area. I don't think any other Indonesian cities come close to Jakarta for this need of expansion IOTL.
Then maybe because of the dencity of Jakarta like you said. The city doesn't have really other choice but the conduct reclamation. But then again there is a possibility that it would disrupt the local economy (the fishermen's in particular) also with the environmental effects of it like you said. I have to agree to be honest about the fact expanding south or east or west ward would have a possibility of a worse consequences for the agricultural lands of the island. Maybe the only way to try lower the density a bit is by try move the capital to somewhere at Borneo (yet again it may not work since Jakarta would still be the economic center of the country and would made people still stay at Jakarta because of that but who knows)
