Independent Virginia
- Thread starter Odinson
- Start date
There is not way that Lincoln is going to make peace in any point. He was going restore CSA back to the Union no matter of price.
But if we assume that CSA manage get independence I can't see Virginia leaving CSA. Why it eve would do that? USA would take that hallipy back to the Union no matter would that happen with peaceful or violent way. And I am not sure if even CSA would accept that.
But if we assume that CSA manage get independence I can't see Virginia leaving CSA. Why it eve would do that? USA would take that hallipy back to the Union no matter would that happen with peaceful or violent way. And I am not sure if even CSA would accept that.
I'm glad for the feed back.
So, as for Confederate Victory, I was thinking that Jubal Early's raid on Washington happens on time (as opposed to the delay that happened due to his army's heavy drinking prior) and captures president Lincoln. This gives the peace democrats some leverage as they campaign for a peace with the south.
I'm sorry if that's not very plausible. I'm trying to form the basis for a new timeline, and having trouble with pods.
. But in all seriousness, it is a Confederate victory.FillyofDelphi
Banned
To form a provisional government by which they could re-apply to the Union is the event of a Southern Victory* and a few decades of steady Confederate decline and cultural-economic breakdown of the links of Virginia with the Deep South, if the terms of the "Peace" involving West Virginia still being recognized as the legitimate government of the State of Virginia by the US. If relations break up with he rest of he southern states haven declined due to a variety of factors (Heavy cultural influence from he Mid-Atlantic, a decline in Southern cash crop fortunes from say he Weevel and the rise of Virginian industry resulting in a widening gap in taxation of the state vs. national spending there, ect.) I could see Re-Unionism grow as a poliical movement in the State provided the capital has been moved back out of Richmond, and there could be a period of "independence" for he State if temporary affairs up North meant they diden't want to risk triggering a war with the CSA right away. and the CSA know that if they attack the Union will step in to stop them.
I like it. It's more plausible than anything I've come up with so far. And this provisional government could be more parliamentary in nature (the timeline is basically leaning towards Virginia becoming a constitutional monarchy/ parliamentary republic) and when the union doesn't take them, this rump government takes hold.
Perhaps Virginia and couple other states decide abolish slavery which angers central government and causes Confederate Civil War.
Back in 2015/16 when I was planning out what would become my God Save These American States tl. I drew up a southern victory tl in which Virginia North Carolina and Tennessee industrialized left the CSA in the 1880's when the CSA falling apart. They created the Republic of Dixie ended slavery replacing it with a Jim crow on steroids. The Rest of the CSA declared war on the RoD and ended being conquered by the RoD save for Texas Arkansas and Indian territory which formed the Second Republic of Texas.
The union was just coming out of a massive economic depression it had been in since the end of the war in 1864. And could do little to influence the southern revolution.
The union was just coming out of a massive economic depression it had been in since the end of the war in 1864. And could do little to influence the southern revolution.
FillyofDelphi
Banned
Constitutional Monarchy... ???
And I don't see why the Union won't take them in the long term. Independence would only be a matter of he the US have a particular reason to no annex them immediately, and geography and economic realities make the situation peculier and ineffficent to the point I question how the Independent faction is getting any support if the US is a pleasent place, and how they resist conquest if the US is less pleasent.
Yes, constitutional monarchy... i know, it's a weird idea, but I was thinking of doing something unique this time for a timeline.
FillyofDelphi
Banned
It's not just weird; it's nonsensical. Where on Earth would this idea get the domestic support, even if you can get a Virginia who with total political unity be able to hold off annexation into it's neighbors?
More less, Virginia stays independent from both the Union and the Confederacy because neither wants to go to war over it; if the CSA tries to reannex it, the Union will declare war and vice versa.
The monarchy part was Robert E Lee, Virginia's then favorite son, and his family.
I just wanted to run the idea by the community, see what people think before I start a bad timeline. I'm sorry if it's stupid and for wasting your time.
This is pretty much impossible. The only plausible way I can see Virginia being independent is if it broke off from the early US or never joined. It could leave when the government tried to force it to give up its claims in Ohio & Indiana.
This Virginia would (roughly) look like this:
It would split the US into, two republics (New England and Carolina), and would be large enough to do some westward expansion of its own.
This Virginia would (roughly) look like this:
It would split the US into, two republics (New England and Carolina), and would be large enough to do some westward expansion of its own.
Like its predecessor Confederation eighty years earlier, The CSA didn't have the power to enforce its edicts, and devolves from a true confederation into a mutual defensive alliance.
IMNSHO, once the war was over, the USA would be extremely reluctant to start another one.
Don't be. This board has some firmly opinionated "how DARE someone reach a conclusion other than mine" types. There are several forum topics that fall into that trigger this: You've found one. The board's opinion is that the Union would be slavering for a reconquesta, and jump in at the first chance to re-annex any wayward CSA states - Anything else is ASB.
FillyofDelphi
Banned
I have a few questions that I think you need to consider as part of planning a timeline of this...
1. If the CSA is weak and/or disinterested enough to allow Virginia to break off in the first place, how are they simultaneously strong/interested enough to prevent reunion.
2. How does Virginia develop a strong independent cultural identity in its position that can hold up against the influence from its larger, highly similar neighbors?
3. Why do the locals consider independence preferable to Reunion, given the cultural-lingustic, political, and economic ties and clear advantages of membership even if the Union is not set on actively trying to bring them back.
4. How would Virginia, with no history of monarchical rule, no native nobility, a strong republican tradition, and a proud heritage of fighting tyranny (Sic Semper Tyrannis, anyone) suddenly develop a strong movement for Constitutional Monarchy?
Not to say there are no possible answers, but they do need to be found if the scenario is to make sense
With a POD of the Civil War? Far, far too late.
That said, an Articles of Confederation-era collapse of the USA has a Commonwealth of Virginia that would be the pre-eminent power in eastern North America, be it population, trade, leadership or territory, given it included OTL West Virginia, Kentucky and a good chunk of the Old Northwest. Hell, they were maybe the only American Republic in this case with the potential to expand across the Mississippi.
That said, an Articles of Confederation-era collapse of the USA has a Commonwealth of Virginia that would be the pre-eminent power in eastern North America, be it population, trade, leadership or territory, given it included OTL West Virginia, Kentucky and a good chunk of the Old Northwest. Hell, they were maybe the only American Republic in this case with the potential to expand across the Mississippi.
Actually, what folks here tend to dislike is "hand-wave". If you can actually develop a reasonable POD its all good.