independent navarre

If navarre somehow maintainss independence what are the consequences?

I think the obvious consequence is that it would be a rival center of Oc culture to catalonia in the present because Basque and Gascon is spoken in Navarre.
 

yourworstnightmare

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Basque nationalists would want Euskadi to join Navarra instead of independence. Perhaps passive support from the Navarran government.
 
An independent Navarre is likely to become strongly Basque in culture (if it's not already ;)) so while a rival to the Oc(citan) culture it won't be Occitan.

The Gascon dialect of the Occitan-Catalan continuum may become more Basque influenced so that it won't be considered an Occitan dialect (which many linguist OTL disagree with) but as the Navarran language that isn't Euskara - assuming of course that Gascony is under Navarre rather than France or a separate Occitania.

Another thing to consider is whether the population stays Roman Catholic or goes Protestant. My bets are on remaining (at least majority) Roman Catholic to avoid being conquered by Catholic France or Spain.
 
An independent Navarre is likely to become strongly Basque in culture (if it's not already ;)) so while a rival to the Oc(citan) culture it won't be Occitan.

The Gascon dialect of the Occitan-Catalan continuum may become more Basque influenced so that it won't be considered an Occitan dialect (which many linguist OTL disagree with) but as the Navarran language that isn't Euskara - assuming of course that Gascony is under Navarre rather than France or a separate Occitania.

Another thing to consider is whether the population stays Roman Catholic or goes Protestant. My bets are on remaining (at least majority) Roman Catholic to avoid being conquered by Catholic France or Spain.

Or staying Pagan ;). Navarre historically is Basque. Until the coming of the Moors the Basque had been at war with the Franks and Visigoths for 300 years. Depending on what happens that keeps Navarre independent in your TL, you could have drastically different outcomes.

For instance, picture a world with no Jesuits. They had a huge impact on events. Make Navarre independent at a certain point, and maybe Loiolako Inazio, known to history as Ignatius of Loyola stays home and the jesuits never come into being. IMO that could be the largest impact.

If the Kingdom retains all of the Basque provinces, you have another set of possibilities. You might very well have a Columbus beseeching Sancho V for a fleet for instance. You would likely have several nasty trade wars with the English and Dutch. There would be brawls with Castile. All sorts of stuff could happen ;). You really need to pick a point at which the change in TL occurs to get a more definite answer.
 
An independent Navarre is likely to become strongly Basque in culture (if it's not already ;)) so while a rival to the Oc(citan) culture it won't be Occitan.

The Gascon dialect of the Occitan-Catalan continuum may become more Basque influenced so that it won't be considered an Occitan dialect (which many linguist OTL disagree with) but as the Navarran language that isn't Euskara - assuming of course that Gascony is under Navarre rather than France or a separate Occitania.

Another thing to consider is whether the population stays Roman Catholic or goes Protestant. My bets are on remaining (at least majority) Roman Catholic to avoid being conquered by Catholic France or Spain.
French Navarre is bilingual with Gascon and Basque and Spanish Navarra with Castillian and Basque it means that an independent Navarre is a rival of Aragon's Catalonia in being the center of Oc culture..
 
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French Navarre is bilingual with Gascon and Basque and Spanish Navarra with Castillian and Basque it means that an independent Navarre is a rival of Aragon's Catalonia in being the center of Oc culture..

No it doesn't :rolleyes:.
The root of Navarre is Basque culture. While they may pick up parts of the Oc culture it won't be an Oc culture centre.
But it may be a rival cultural centre of Basque origin.
 
No it doesn't :rolleyes:.
The root of Navarre is Basque culture. While they may pick up parts of the Oc culture it won't be an Oc culture centre.
But it may be a rival cultural centre of Basque origin.

Mimeyo...

Gascon is a derivative of Basque. You have your influences all wrong. The Franks started calling the Aquitainians 'Gascons' due to the fact that just about every war the Aquitainians fought against the Franks they used large numbers of Vascon troops. The name then stuck later on for a general area and then even later you have Aquitain and Gascony as a result.

Navarre at that time was pretty much a purely Basque area, as was northern Aragon. The area you call French Navarre was in fact known to the Basque as Iparalde (the North). Gascons speak gascon because of teh Basque, you wouldn't see Basque speaking Gascon as a result of being near Gascony in the case of an independent Navarre. In fact you might not have Gascon. If they pressed the issue and were strong enough and kept the Franks at bay you might simply have the entire region speaking Basque.

The OTHER intriguing thing about a strongly independent Navarre is that if it held together long enough you'd have a medieval state without vassalage. That could lend itself to some intrigue as well.
 
Mimeyo...

Gascon is a derivative of Basque. You have your influences all wrong. The Franks started calling the Aquitainians 'Gascons' due to the fact that just about every war the Aquitainians fought against the Franks they used large numbers of Vascon troops. The name then stuck later on for a general area and then even later you have Aquitain and Gascony as a result.

Navarre at that time was pretty much a purely Basque area, as was northern Aragon. The area you call French Navarre was in fact known to the Basque as Iparalde (the North). Gascons speak gascon because of teh Basque, you wouldn't see Basque speaking Gascon as a result of being near Gascony in the case of an independent Navarre. In fact you might not have Gascon. If they pressed the issue and were strong enough and kept the Franks at bay you might simply have the entire region speaking Basque.

The OTHER intriguing thing about a strongly independent Navarre is that if it held together long enough you'd have a medieval state without vassalage. That could lend itself to some intrigue as well.
My POD is during the time of Henry of Navarre when Bearn and Navarre merge.
 
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