Independent Hungary 1848 and the Ottoman Empire

Question - what would the relationship between these two powers be? It goes without saying it would be characterized by antagonism, but would Hungary manage to conquer more of the Balkans (Habsburg-Ottoman border had largely settled after 1848), would they stand pat, or is it too hard to tell considering the direction of Hungary after 1848 would be uncertain?
 
The opposite Kinda, Hungary would be happy collaborated ottomans so romanians migth not get funny ideas with transylvannia, ditto Serbs and other slavs woth croatia,and unlike Hasburg they would not want more minorities in their lands...even them, Bosnia would be a juicy target as long is not in serbian hands.

So would collaborate but depend a third partner(Grossdeutchland?) against Russia
 

Deleted member 67076

Initially at least the two would likely have many common interests in defending against the Austrians and possibly the Russians, so I suspect they'd actually be pretty friendly.

A few decades later, as Hungary has stabilized and grown, that might change.
 
Initially at least the two would likely have many common interests in defending against the Austrians and possibly the Russians, so I suspect they'd actually be pretty friendly.

A few decades later, as Hungary has stabilized and grown, that might change.

Will the Magyar elite ever be interested in creating non-Magyar vassal states (beyond a very freindly and economically colonized Bosnia-Hercegovina)?

Carving South Slavic, Orthodox states out of the Ottoman Empire will ever only be beneficial for Russia. And I cannot see a Kdm of Hungary ever becoming friendly with Russia.
 
Well, the Ottoman Empire was one of the few powers to recognize independent Hungary. So relations between them will presumably be friendly - at first. Hungary will be unwilling and possibly unable to expand into any Ottoman-held territories. Neither of them have an interest in the strengthening of Russian influence, or the strengthening of the Balkan states - although this may change, if the government in Budapest adopts any "Danubian Federation" schemes or tries to create a less hostile southern border.
 
A HUngary gaining its independence in 1848 would be very different than you imagine. Firsrt and foremost Croatia wouldnt be a part of it. In 27. august 1848 the hungarian parlaiment voted for the complete independence of Croatia from Hungary. This wasnt enough as a habsburg-croatian army crossed the border on the 11th of September attacking Hungary. There was never a question during the revolution of Croatia becoming part of Hungary.

Second the leader of this Hungary would be Kossuth. Thats a huge change. He was the only important hungarian politican who wanted peace with the national minorities - the Danubian Confederation was his idea. But that was after his tour in the USA and heavily influenced by what he saw there.This wont happen if the revolution succeeds as he wont go to America.

The problem is that he was pretty alone in this regard. So i have no idea what would be the policy of Hungary toward the national minorities after a successful revolution. I know what Kossuth wanted but every other leader was against him. However his influevce was huge....

However i dont see in any case them being unfriendly towards the ottomans. Hungary would be a supporter of the Status Quo in the region and view Russia as his main enemy. In this Kossuth and the rest of the elit was united.
 
A HUngary gaining its independence in 1848 would be very different than you imagine. Firsrt and foremost Croatia wouldnt be a part of it. In 27. august 1848 the hungarian parlaiment voted for the complete independence of Croatia from Hungary. This wasnt enough as a habsburg-croatian army crossed the border on the 11th of September attacking Hungary. There was never a question during the revolution of Croatia becoming part of Hungary.

Second the leader of this Hungary would be Kossuth. Thats a huge change. He was the only important hungarian politican who wanted peace with the national minorities - the Danubian Confederation was his idea. But that was after his tour in the USA and heavily influenced by what he saw there.This wont happen if the revolution succeeds as he wont go to America.

The problem is that he was pretty alone in this regard. So i have no idea what would be the policy of Hungary toward the national minorities after a successful revolution. I know what Kossuth wanted but every other leader was against him. However his influevce was huge....

However i dont see in any case them being unfriendly towards the ottomans. Hungary would be a supporter of the Status Quo in the region and view Russia as his main enemy. In this Kossuth and the rest of the elit was united.

I am not sure if he wanted peace with the minorities per sé, but he wanted the Danubian Federation of Hungarians, Romanians and South Slavs to inherit the regional dominant role of the Habsburg Empire. (BTW, as federal parliamentary language he envisioned either French or German).

It is very obvious that this would completely thwart all Russian ambitions on the Balkans and towards the straits. Fur Russia it would be a casus belli, and to pursue the creation of such a federation would mean robbing the Ottomans and provoking the Russians. Hungary would be in a position similar to A-H in OTL, only weaker.

In the case of Hungarian independence in 1848, what would stop Russia from trying to vassalize the Danube Principalities and declare itself the champion or Romanian, Orthodox rights in Transsylvania?

There might be a Romania-centered parallel to the Crimean War in this TL.
 
I am not sure if he wanted peace with the minorities per sé, but he wanted the Danubian Federation of Hungarians, Romanians and South Slavs to inherit the regional dominant role of the Habsburg Empire. (BTW, as federal parliamentary language he envisioned either French or German).

It is very obvious that this would completely thwart all Russian ambitions on the Balkans and towards the straits. Fur Russia it would be a casus belli, and to pursue the creation of such a federation would mean robbing the Ottomans and provoking the Russians. Hungary would be in a position similar to A-H in OTL, only weaker.

In the case of Hungarian independence in 1848, what would stop Russia from trying to vassalize the Danube Principalities and declare itself the champion or Romanian, Orthodox rights in Transsylvania?

There might be a Romania-centered parallel to the Crimean War in this TL.

Like I said Kossuth came up with the idea of Danubian federalization after his trip to America and heavily influenced by what he saw there. This was well after the fall of the 1848 revolution. If the revolution succeds he will be the governor or some such of Hungary and wont have the time to tour the USA. So without the fall of the revolution its very unlikely he will come up with the idea of the Dabubian federalization at all.

And he really did want to make a pact and a compromise with national minorities even during the revolution. It was him who proposed to let go of the croatians which happened and he was close to reach an understanding with the leaders of the romanians in Transylvania. This latter was sabotaged by local nationalistic hungarian leaders.

I dont know how his efforts in this regard would have turned out but its foolish to question that he was a true liberal. Im sure he would have tried to reach an understanding with the minorities. The question if he would succeed. Another thing thats a given is antirussian sentiment.
 
"Liberalism" and especially "true liberalism" is difficult to pin down in the mid-19th century. A true liberal might be truly in favor of the ideals of the French Revolution, including oppressing minority languages. The hypocritical differentiation between "historical nations" and "mere people" was very much alive in Hungary, to the detriment of e.g. the Slovaks. Often the understanding sought by the elite was that the minority understood where their place was.
 
Top