I think its likely that a sovereign Ukraine will be short lived and probably end up being occupied by the Soviet Union like the Baltic states.
I think its likely that a sovereign Ukraine will be short lived and probably end up being occupied by the Soviet Union like the Baltic states.
The Ukraine would be occupied by the USSR in the early 20's. Just like they occupied Georgia & Armenia, and tried to do to Poland [1922].
I always found it strange that Britain and France would lets a country with such potential fall their ideoligical enemy.
The Ukraine would be occupied by the USSR in the early 20's. Just like they occupied Georgia & Armenia, and tried to do to Poland [1922].
The Ukraine would be occupied by the USSR in the early 20's. Just like they occupied Georgia & Armenia, and tried to do to Poland [1922].
From Polish POV the war with bolsheviks lasted since 1919, and the march on Kiev was supposed to be liberation of Ukraine. It was supported by Ukrainian forces commanded by Petlura. In some other thread I mentioned that before 1922 that part of eastern Europe was actually one big mess without any established borders - nations liberated by the fall of the Russian Empire fought each other to create their own states. Polish-Ukrainian offensive on Kiev is now considered an invasion of Soviet Russia because Kiev was controlled then by Soviets and eventually remained in Soviet hands. BTW, Soviet Russia wasn't recognized then by any goverment. But imagine, WI Soviets occupied Finland, and Swedish-Finnish force succesfully liberated Helsinki - would you still call it invasion of Soviet Russia? Ukraine was as Soviet as Finland under Soviet occupation (if that had happened).Well, after Poland had invaded them.
Originally posted by Susano
From Polish POV the war with bolsheviks lasted since 1919, and the march on Kiev was supposed to be liberation of Ukraine. It was supported by Ukrainian forces commanded by Petlura. In some other thread I mentioned that before 1922 that part of eastern Europe was actually one big mess without any established borders - nations liberated by the fall of the Russian Empire fought each other to create their own states. Polish-Ukrainian offensive on Kiev is now considered an invasion of Soviet Russia because Kiev was controlled then by Soviets and eventually remained in Soviet hands. BTW, Soviet Russia wasn't recognized then by any goverment. But imagine, WI Soviets occupied Finland, and Swedish-Finnish force succesfully liberated Helsinki - would you still call it invasion of Soviet Russia? Ukraine was as Soviet as Finland under Soviet occupation (if that had happened).
Now, if we strip your post of rhethorics ("liberated" here and "liberated" there), its still as I said. Poland invaded the Ukraine, supported by Ukrainian units. You may have had a point about blurry borders, if not for the fact that the Polish troops took Kiev. Thats not the border, thats the Ukrainian capital!
And, yes, if a Swedish force with some decoration Finnish units landed in Soviet Finnland, it would be an invasion of Finland/the Soviet Sphere. My point was, if you strike at somebody, you shouldnt wonder ifu he strikes back. jhence the Soviet Invasion of Poland hardly can be cited as proof for Soviet agressivity.
If there is going to be a union, it's either going to be a rather loose federation or an outright Polish conquest. And where Poland ends and Ukraine starts is going to be a _rather_ contentious subject.
Not really. Before embarking on the Kiev Offensive the Poles and Ukrainians agreed on a border similar, if not identical, to the one Poland got after the Peace of Riga. This is not to say the Ukrainians liked it, but they had sorted that part out and the Poles didn't intend to keep Kiev for themselves.