Independant Occitania

How can we get an independant Occitania, that survives the French, to the present day?
How will this affect the development of France?
 

ninebucks

Banned
How can we get an independant Occitania, that survives the French, to the present day?
How will this affect the development of France?

Do you mean 'survive' in the sense that a widow survives her husband? Or 'survive' in that they end up coexisting with another *France?

Because the former is probably easier than the latter.
 
Maybe no Albigensian Crusade, and the County of Toulouse remains somewhat independent. However, there was the matter of the Cathars. Maybe if they are butterflied away, Toulouse can stay more independent, with no French invasion.
 
Maybe no Albigensian Crusade, and the County of Toulouse remains somewhat independent. However, there was the matter of the Cathars. Maybe if they are butterflied away, Toulouse can stay more independent, with no French invasion.

But sooner or later, the dynasty would end and it would revert to France, just like all of the other feudal states.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
But sooner or later, the dynasty would end and it would revert to France, just like all of the other feudal states.

Yup, but without the Albigensian crusade Occitan culture would be much stronger, and probably survive much longer as the culture of Southern France. I am really interresting in huguenott butterfly effects if occitan culture was still dominant in all groups of South French society.
 
Stronger Aragon that incorporates all of Occitania, until one stupid Aragonese king divides possesions between his heirs giving one Aragon and the other Occitania.
 
One could posit a County of Toulouse that "pulls a Burgundy"- that is the Count of Toulouse brings together a large amount of land that straddles the French-Aragonese border, and then his daughter-heir marry into the Aragonese Royal family.

The County has enjoyed de facto independence for decades, under the rule of its independent minded counts. Occita has developed its own culture during the years of independent rule however, and when the Protestant Reformation (I know about butterflies, gimme a break) comes the Occitan nobility moves toward this new religious interpretation. The "Twenty Five-Years War" leads to eventual Occitan independence for what is referred to as the "Princes' Republic". Despite French and Aragonese claims on Occita the country has survived, due to its strong and very unique cultural and religious identity, surrounded as it is by Catholic powers.
 
Occitania

I'm not sure how the English territories would fit into this picture. When Edward the Black Prince ruled the principality of Aquitaine, his reign was generally not a success and he faced numerous rebellions. I'm assuming that you are including these territories as part of the Occitan region of France.
 
Yup, but without the Albigensian crusade Occitan culture would be much stronger, and probably survive much longer as the culture of Southern France. I am really interresting in huguenott butterfly effects if occitan culture was still dominant in all groups of South French society.

Hugenots would not exist ITTL, or at least the ones from OTL.
 
Top