incan Iron

[Hades]

What if the Incans discovered Iron around the time of Virachocha's reign?

 

[Byzantion]

What if the Incans discovered Iron around the time of Virachocha's reign?

They would be successfull until their enemies discover their secret and start manufacturing their own iron tools.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

They would be successfull until their enemies discover their secret and start manufacturing their own iron tools.

No, because the Inca would still be technically equal to their local enemies, and they towered over them when technically equal in OTL.

They would, however, be a little better placed to withstand the Spanish (or whomever) when the latter came aconquering.

 

[twovultures]

They would, however, be a little better placed to withstand the Spanish (or whomever) when the latter came aconquering.

Having metal piercing/slashing weapons and armor and being experienced fighting with them would give them a great tactical and psychological leg-up when fighting Spanish steel. At very least, the Spanish/Inca death rates in battle would move towards becoming equal (and with the small number of Spanish initially in the Empire, that could be enough to get rid of the first 2-3 waves of conquistadors).

 

[Ultimate Paragon]

Having metal piercing/slashing weapons and armor and being experienced fighting with them would give them a great tactical and psychological leg-up when fighting Spanish steel. At very least, the Spanish/Inca death rates in battle would move towards becoming equal (and with the small number of Spanish initially in the Empire, that could be enough to get rid of the first 2-3 waves of conquistadors).

Especially considering that, contrary to popular belief, steel was more important to the conquistadores than firearms.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Especially considering that, contrary to popular belief, steel was more important to the conquistadores than firearms.

The Conquistadors are still going to have steel were the Incas have only iron, and not nearly as much of it. But, yes, the European advantage, while real, will be much smaller, and probably not large enough.

 

[eliphas8]

The problem there as far as I can tell is that the Incans don't have a good reason to stop using Bronze as the primary manufacturing metal, the Andes is one of the few regions where you can find Tin and Copper close together so Bronze is likely the superior option.

Especially considering that, contrary to popular belief, steel was more important to the conquistadores than firearms.

More important than either technology ability was the political situation in the Incan empire, that's probably more important to change.

 

[phildup]

Just wondering how long the Incas would take to go from Iron to steel on their own. Iron is an ugly metal compared to copper or bronze. What would make them want to work it?

 

[profxyz]

I think the creation of steel probably won't take too long - couple hundred years, probably. Ancient cultures found out about it when carbon accidentally got into their smelters, so it seems like some iron smelter is bound to find out about it eventually. Hell, some versions of medieval steel have not yet been replicated (Damascus steel) and it's probably just an accidental discovery.

Ironworking is probably not as useful to the Incas as it is for the hyper-competitive environments of Eurasia. I mean, the Incas did pretty well for themselves without steel and there's not much incentive to be using it against the Chimu or or even worse, letting rebels gain access to the tech. I suspect the Inca will mainly use iron/steel as tools for construction, and minimize specific production of iron weapons (if even that, since people agree that iron looks yuck) for a small elite unless a massive civil war erupts a la Atahualpa vs. Huascar.

 

[Richard V]

The problem there as far as I can tell is that the Incans don't have a good reason to stop using Bronze as the primary manufacturing metal, the Andes is one of the few regions where you can find Tin and Copper close together so Bronze is likely the superior option.

But they didn't use Bronze that way. The Incans used stone tools and fashioned bronze as jewelry. It was a precious metal to them and they often alloyed it with gold. There might be instances where metal tools were fashioned for special applications, but metal was hardly widely used for manufacturing.

I think the creation of steel probably won't take too long - couple hundred years, probably. Ancient cultures found out about it when carbon accidentally got into their smelters, so it seems like some iron smelter is bound to find out about it eventually. Hell, some versions of medieval steel have not yet been replicated (Damascus steel) and it's probably just an accidental discovery.

It took a couple of thousand years in real life. The Romans were an Iron Age people and only made steel by accident. There's no evidence they knew what steel was, just that sometimes iron tools and weapons performed better than expected.

Wootz or Damascus steel is actually well understood now. It was steel made from iron ore mined in India which contained several trace impurities, most importantly Vanadium. Over time smiths learned how to the get the best out of this ore through heat treating and etching process specific to this steel. When the ore ran out in the 18th century the whole industry came to an end.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Good point about not needing iron. I wonder if it would be possible for a tin-poor state to come up with iron, possibly in eg Mexico, and for iron working to spread south?

 

[Sawaiki]

The P'urhepecha had some metalworking, and while I don't recall the details specifically, that's where many look for more advanced metallurgy in the Americas.

That being said, I don't really see why this would be such a big deal. For starters, the transition from Qosqo to "Empire" just over a half century before Columbus showed up, and less than a century before Pizarro actually ran into them. Even forgoing that, disease, not weapons of any sort, was by far the most significant factor in favor of the Spanish - and natives opposed to the Incan rule were certainly the second. Even with this, the Incans put up a significant resistance for decades.

Long story short; I don't think that ironworking would determine the survival of the Incans against the Spanish, since it wasn't very important IOTL.

 

[M79]

It could be done even earlier, the Chimu had closed furnaces and the Moche had access to hematite which they reportedly used as a dye. Maybe someone makes a mistake and discovers how to purify iron?

 

[Sawaiki]

Still, I don't think it would have that big an impact on the conquests - if anything, it might tip things more in favor of the conquistadors, since European military tools and techniques were often hindrances during the era and terrain of the conquests.

Which is not saying it wouldn't have significant butterflies for the Pre-Columbians themselves, or that they couldn't have made it through the conquests, it's just saying that iron is probably not the way to change that particular part of history.

 

[Airship_pirate1901]

Richard V, I disagree that the Romans stumbled on to steel by accident. The production and use of steel was well known to Iron Age Europe by the time of the roman empire. The arms of Rome in particular the swords were steel if I rember correctly. Considering the oldest known pice of steel produced is 4,000 years old, yes the Greeks and Romans knew about steel.

 

[DaleCoz]

My understanding is that the Incas used bronze for weapons and tools to some extent, but mainly they used it the same ways that they would have used stone, rather than exploring the unique things they could do with metal. The key advance would probably have been more effective use of bronze, rather than figuring out iron. Actually, the initial shift toward more utilitarian use of metal seems to have been under the Incas, but metal was still primarily used for ornaments/markers of status.

 

[zoomar]

My understanding is that the Incas used bronze for weapons and tools to some extent, but mainly they used it the same ways that they would have used stone, rather than exploring the unique things they could do with metal. The key advance would probably have been more effective use of bronze, rather than figuring out iron. Actually, the initial shift toward more utilitarian use of metal seems to have been under the Incas, but metal was still primarily used for ornaments/markers of status.

I agree. If your desire is to have an Inca Empire extant in the 1500's that was technologically more able to withstand the conquistadores, it would be better to accelerate and expand the use of bronze metallurgy to the level of early Greece, for example.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

I agree. If your desire is to have an Inca Empire extant in the 1500's that was technologically more able to withstand the conquistadores, it would be better to accelerate and expand the use of bronze metallurgy to the level of early Greece, for example.

Hmmm.... If the Incas have better bronze tools, and the *Aztecs have iron, that might provide enough of a barrier that the Spanish take much longer to get to the Incas, which would allow them more time to adjust.