In this country , it is good to kill an admiral from time to time

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by antoine, May 18, 2013.

  1. antoine Well-Known Member

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    The beginning of the end (Year 1707 -1708 )

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    England , the Dutch Republic and Portugal ceased effectively fighting France and Spain at the beginning of the year 1707 when the négociations began . Aragon , which had supported the Archduke's claim to the throne of Spain and the allies in 1705, had surrendered to the Bourbon army on 1706 following the siege of Barcelona , ending the presence of the allies in Spain. The battlefields on the Netherlands and England were in a better shape , but with the might of France , Spain and their colonial empires , it was only a matter of time before they were completely bled by the fighting . France had escaped the fate of having foreign armies on its soil , but had suffered heavily from the taxes which fianced the war .The problem was the Empire . Leopold I was a stubborn man , and didn't want to sign any treaty where he wasn't in a position of strenght . The fact that every ruler (included the Ottoman Empire ) had entered the diplomatic game was apparently lost upon him . On July 25 , Eugene of Savoy achieved a victory South of Budapest , but it was a Pyrrhic one : Eugene of Savoy himself and 17 000 men died to obtain that victory , which forced the Ottomans to retreat from fifty kilometers . Convinced now that a military victory was now impossible , Leopold I agreed to enter the talks .

    In December , dozens of diplomats arrived to Versailles to reshape Europe .The Ottoman -Swedish - French-Spanish alliance had won the war , and expected to enjoy the gains they (in their minds at least ) deserved . It is said that when the first proposition was made , the Grand Alliance discussed openly the possibility to renew the conflict . In the end , Louis XIV , Philip V , Charles XII and Ahmed III were convinced to "moderate " their proposals by their senior diplomats . On February 7 1708 , the Peace of Versailles was signed .

    Philip was recognized as King Philip V of Spain, but renounced his place in the French line of succession, thereby precluding the union of the French and Spanish crowns (although there was some sense in France that this renunciation was illegal , it was a proposal the Grand Alliance wouldn't budge on ). He retained the Spanish overseas empire, but ceded the Southern Netherlands to France , Naples to Austria , and Sicily to Savoy (as the price for their help , it was that or Milan ) . Sardignia was retained , as were the Balearic Islands (even if he had to pay a nice sum to Louis XIV for their return ) . Spain also kept the Asiento , a valuable monopoly slave -trading contract .

    With regard to the political organization of their kingdoms, Philip issued the Nueva Planta decrees , following the centralizing approach of the Bourbons in France, ending the political autonomy of the kingdoms which had made up the Crown of Aragon ; territories in Spain that had supported the Archduke Charles and up to then had kept their institutions in a framework of loose dynastic union, separate from the rest of the Spanish realm. On the other hand, Navarre and the Basque provinces , having supported the king against the Habsburg pretender, did not lose their autonomy and retained their traditional differentiated institutions and laws .

    Important changes were made to French territory in Europe. Grandiose royal desires to move the French expansion to the Rhine which had occurred since the middle decades of the seventeenth century were realized, as the French border pushed back in the Low Countries . France
    gained the Spanish Netherlands , and a good part of the Rhineland .
    In North America, England ceded to France all its claims to Newfoundland , Acadia , the Hudson's Bay company territories . The formerly partitioned island of Saint Kitts was also ceded in its entirety to France . England was required to recognize French suzerainty over the Wakanabi Confederacy and other tribes , and commerce with the Far Indians was to be open to traders of all nations. France retained its other pre-war North American possessions, including Île-Saint-Jean (OTL Prince Edward Island ) as well as Île Royale (OTL Cape Breton Island), on which it erected later the fortress of Louisbourg . A series of commercial treaties were also signed , like fishing rights for the English colonists in North America .

    In England ,Louis XIV agreed to recognize Anne as the legitimate queen of Scotland , Ireland and Northern England . All the English colonies all over the world went to Anne .James III was recognized as the legitimate ruler of Southern England .Otherwise , it was statu quo ante bellum . However , this state of affairs satisfied no one , and diplomats began to bet how much time it would take for the two sides to kill each other again .

    The Ottoman Empire managed to obtain Morea , a good part of Transylvania and Southern Hungary , and Russia agreed to cede them everything south of the Dniepr . It enraged Peter I and Leopold I , who feeled they had been stabbed in the back ( it was indeed the case ) .
    Sweden obtained a part of Courtland and managed to retain all the territories it had before the war . It was a great victory for Charles XII , even if he had to cope with Russia , which was becoming a serious threat , and Augustus II , who was confirmed as King of Poland .

    The territories in the East Indies went back to their former owners , back to the status quo ante bellum and Prussia and Savoy were recognized as kingdoms .

    With the Peace of Versailles, the wars to prevent French hegemony that had dominated the latter part of the seventeenth century and the beginning of the eighteenth century were over for the time being , France having crushed all its major opponents . France had permanently broken the threat of encirclement by Habsburg powers and with France and Spain allied , a new war would be a disastrous one for the Grand Alliance . The treaty brought a short period of peace , but it wouldn't be long before a new conflict began .

    Due to the lack of necessity for privateers and corsairs after the peace of Versailles , large numbers of unemployed sailors turned to piracy , thus launching a new phase of the Golden Age of Piracy .

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    Last edited: Jun 13, 2013
  2. aegis03florin Well-Known Member

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    Hi! Again, a very good job!
    So, for recapitulation :
    - France pretty much dictate the terms,
    - Phillip is King of Spain but renounce his rights on the French crown,
    - England it's still partitioned - still improbable
    - Netherlands lost anything - too favorable... at least several trading points in Indian Ocean?...
    - Catalonia, Navarre, Balearic's are ceded back to Spain - dam! I have dreamed a French Ibiza :cool:
    - Sardignia also go to Spain ?
    - France keep the Spanish Netherlands and several territories on the left of the Rhine, also already occupied Newfoundland, Acadia and Hudson Bay
    - Ottoman Empire - Morea, Transylvania and S Hungary
    - Russia - big looser in the south and north
    - Austria - gain Naples (a pretty rich kingdom...)
    - Sweden : Courtland + territories in the Baltic
    - Savoy and Prussia : recognized as Kingdoms => who lead them? what are the Savoy's territories, other than newly acquired Sicily ?
    - Milan it's in Spanish or French hands ? => I am a little confused about the situation on the Northern Italy => Where is the frontier between France and Savoy?


    Also, who is the French Controller-General of Finance? OTL it was Michel Chamillart.

    Big Thanks :)
     
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  3. J. de Vos Bloed, zweet en tranen.

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    France needs to be taken down a peg or two...:mad:
     
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  4. aegis03florin Well-Known Member

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    Why?
    I can believe that can be someone who don't like Le Royaume de France... :confused:
     
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  5. antoine Well-Known Member

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    Thanks !

    - France had the right to dictate any terms they wanted , keep in mind they had pretty much the entire Rhineland at the time plus Baden . Baden was given back at Versailles but fortresses in Germany had to be destroyed .

    - England was in a weird situation . Louis XIV wanted to give back Southern England , but he couldn't abandon James III , especially as his troops were still on the ground , it would have been an incredible loss of prestige . There was also the fact that now , if the Protestants enters in London , the royal executioner is going to be very busy ... . At this point , the only interesting question is if there is another war , will the French armies and navies join the melee or stand aside and let the Stuarts be crushed .

    -Only a tidy part of the Netherlands was touched by the war , and their navy was not defeated ( they avoided any major action but still ...) .They have lost their major shield ( the Spanish Netherlands ) and have to rebuild an entire line of defense on their own land . They kept their islands in the West Indies , but their possessions were raided by various French corsairs and pirates in the war . On the paper , the peace of Versailles is excellent , in reality not so much ...

    -Sardignia was blockaded by a French squadron . Without any hope of support coming from the sea, they agreed to come back in the Spanish Empire . At the moment Philip is looking at them suspiciously , wondering when they will revolt again .

    -Milan was Under occupation from a French army during the whole war ( with a Savoy army as well ) At Versailles , France gave back Milan to Spain (they had already taken the Spanish Netherlands and Milan had not any opening to reach the sea )

    - Frederic I is the king of Prussia ( he entered the war only on the promise that Leopold would make him king )
    Victor Amadeus II is Prince of Piedmont , Duke (now King ) of Savoy and King of Sicily .
     
  6. antoine Well-Known Member

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    - Louis XIV wanted to keep them , Admiral Tourville and the others senior naval officers were against as they were not exactly welcome on the islands . With twenty to thirty ships of the line bombarding the Balearic islands , they did a lot of damage , and the inhabitants weren't the biggest supporters of the Bourbons before the war , so no ( No Ibiza :D) ...

    - No , Chamillard is not the Minister of Finance anymore . ITTL ,Nicolas Desmaret is the finance minister since 1706 . Chamillard said he couldn't finance the last grand offensive of the French army and Louis XIV fired him , giving the job to Desmaret . Desmaret is like OTL , quite competent but also unpopular among the nobles : he has instituted like OTL a ten percent tax on the income produced by property ownership in 1707 . His reforms of the economy are also troubling for a few corrupt individuals :rolleyes:...
     
  7. aegis03florin Well-Known Member

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    Hi,
    Thanks again for the update!
    I can not hide... I am a huge francophile... I am guilty of this charge! :D
     
  8. J. de Vos Bloed, zweet en tranen.

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    I am a Dutchophile. I believe the Spanish Netherlands belongs tot the Dutch! As such France needs tot be brought down. :p
     
  9. JacktheCat Markgraf of Viipuri

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    Don't worry, with the Duke of Bourgogne dead France is about to have a very messy succession crisis circa 1711-1714 if the Grande Daphne and Duke of Berry die near to their OTL deaths.

    With Louis the XIV's passing imminent, the heir to the French throne then becomes ...
     
  10. aegis03florin Well-Known Member

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    I propose you a deal: the Spanish Netherlands to be Dutch but the Netherlands to be leaded by the King of France.... :rolleyes:
     
  11. J. de Vos Bloed, zweet en tranen.

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    In this situation the French speaking part of the Southern Netherlands would become too powerful. Unacceptable.:rolleyes:
     
  12. antoine Well-Known Member

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    While I admit the situation would be fun :D, the Netherlands didn't fare very well when they had the Southern Netherlands under their control ( after the Napoleonic era ) . The problem as I see it is that you want the Dutch allied with a major power which is able to defeat France but for some reason , don't want to annex this particular part of the Netherlands . Neither the Holy Roman Empire nor Spain would agree to this situation ...
     
  13. antoine Well-Known Member

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    The Golden Age of Piracy (1708 - 1714)


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    Between 1708 and 1709, a succession of peace treaties was signed which ended the War of the Spanish succession and the Great Northern War . With the end of this conflict, thousands of seamen, including Britain French Spanish and Dutch privateers and corsairs , were relieved of military duty. The result was a large number of trained, idle sailors at a time when the cross-Atlantic colonial shipping trade was beginning to boom. In addition, Europeans who had been pushed by unemployment to become sailors and soldiers involved in slaving were often enthusiastic to abandon that profession and turn to pirating, giving pirate captains for many years a constant pool of trained European recruits to be found in west African waters and coasts.
    In 1709, pirates launched a major raid on Spanish divers trying to recover gold from a sunken treasure galleon near Florida. The nucleus of the pirate force was a group of English ex-privateers, all of whom would soon be enshrined in infamy : Henry Jennings , Charles Vane , Samuel Bellamy and Edward England .. The attack was successful, but contrary to their expectations, the governor of Jamaica refused to allow Jennings and their cohorts to spend their loot on his island. With Kingston and the declining Port Royal closed to them, Jennings and his comrades founded a new pirate base at Nassau , on the island of New Providencein the Bahamas, which had been abandoned during the war. Until the arrival of Commodore James Norrington three years later, Nassau would be home for these pirates and their many recruits.
    Shipping traffic between Africa, the Caribbean, and Europe began to soar in the 18th century, a model that was known as triangular trade , and was a rich target for piracy. Trade ships sailed from Europe to the African coast, trading manufactured goods and weapons for slaves. The traders would then sail to the Caribbean to sell the slaves, and return to Europe with goods such as sugar, tobacco and cocoa. Another triangular trade saw ships carry raw materials, preserved cod, and rum to Europe, where a portion of the cargo would be sold for manufactured goods, which (along with the remainder of the original load) were transported to the Caribbean, where they were exchanged for sugar and molasses, which (with some manufactured articles) were borne to New England. Ships in the triangular trade made money at each stop.
    As part of the war's settlement , Spain retained the asiento , a Spanish government contract, to supply slaves to Spain's new world colonies, but soon English , Dutch and French smugglers and traders wanted more access to the traditionally closed Spanish markets in America . There was also a booming demand for French and English colonies in the West Indies and North America . This situation also contributed heavily to the spread of piracy across the western Atlantic at this time. Shipping to the colonies boomed simultaneously with the flood of skilled mariners after the war. Merchant shippers used the surplus of sailors' labor to drive wages down, cutting corners to maximize their profits, and creating unsavory conditions aboard their vessels. Merchant sailors suffered from mortality rates as high or higher than the slaves being transported . Living conditions were so poor that many sailors began to prefer a freer existence as a pirate . The increased volume of shipping traffic also could sustain a large body of brigands preying upon it.

    By the early 18th century tolerance for privateers was wearing thin by all nations. After the Peace of Versailles was signed, the excess of trained sailors without employment was both a blessing and a curse for all pirates. Initially the surplus of men had caused the number of pirates to multiply significantly. This inevitably led to the pillaging of more ships, which put a greater strain on trade for all European nations. In response European nations bolstered their own navies to offer greater protection for merchants and to hunt down pirates. The excess of skilled sailors meant there was a large pool that could be recruited into national navies as well. Piracy was clearly on a strong decline by 1712. Despite the War of the French Succession from 1715 to 1718 , the Golden Age of Piracy didn’t last the decade.


    On 28 November 1712 Edward Teach attacked a French merchant vessel off the coast of Saint Vincent. They each fired a broadside across its bulwarks, killing several of its crew, and forcing its captain to surrender. The ship was La Concorde of Saint -Malo , a large French guineaman carrying a cargo of slaves. Teach and his crews sailed the vessel south , where they disembarked her crew and cargo, and converted the ship for their own use. The crew of La Concorde were given the smaller of Teach's two sloops, which they renamed Mauvaise Rencontre (Bad Meeting), and sailed for Martinique. Teach may have recruited some of their slaves, but the remainder were left on the island and were later recaptured by the returning crew of Mauvaise Rencontre.
    Teach immediately renamed La Concorde as Queen Anne's Revenge and equipped her with 40 guns. He became a renowned pirate, his cognomen Blackbeard derived from his thick black beard and fearsome appearance; he was reported to have tied lit fuses under his hat to frighten his enemies. He formed an alliance of pirates and blockaded the port of Charleston , South Calorina . After successfully ransoming its inhabitants, he ran Queen Anne's Revenge aground on a sandbar near Beaufort, North Carolina. He parted company with numerous pirates including Jack Sparrow , near Bath town , where he refused a royal pardon . He was soon back at sea and attracted the attention of the Governor of Virginia , who arranged for a party of soldiers and sailors to try to capture the pirate, which they did on 22 November 1713. During a ferocious battle, Teach and several of his crew were killed by a small force of sailors led by Lieutenant Maynard .
    A shrewd and calculating leader, Teach spurned the use of force, relying instead on his fearsome image to elicit the response he desired from those he robbed. Contrary to the modern-day picture of the traditional tyrannical pirate, he commanded his vessels with the permission of their crews and there is no known account of his ever having harmed or murdered those he held captive. He was romanticised after his death and became the inspiration for a number of pirate-themed works of fiction across a range of genres .

    The events of the latter half of 1712 and 1713 represent a turning point in the history of piracy in the New World. Without a safe base and in the growing pressure from naval forces, the pirates lost their momentum. The lure of the Spanish treasures had faded, and the hunters gradually became the hunted. By early 1719, the remaining pirates were on the run. Most of them headed for West Africa, seizing poorly defended slavers .


    Although some of the details are often misremembered, the effect upon popular culture of the Golden Age of Piracy can hardly be overstated . A General History of the Pyrates by Charles Henry , is the prime source for the biographies of many well known pirates of the Golden Age, providing an extensive account of the period. In giving an almost mythical status to the more colorful characters such as the notorious English pirates Blackbeard , Hector Barbossa , William Turner , Jack Sparrow and the Queen of Pirates Elisabeth Swann, the book provided the standard account of the lives of many pirates in the Golden Age, and influenced pirate literature of Robert Louis Stevenson . Such literary works as Treasure islands , while romanticized, drew heavily on pirates and piracy for their plots. Movies such as The Reign of the Pirates drew heavily from this romanticized ideal of piracy. In turn, they helped implant an (often inaccurate) image of old-time pirates in contemporary minds.
    Various claims and speculation about their overall image, attire, fashion, dress code, etc. have been made and contributed to their fanciful mystery and lore. Including, for example, men getting their ear pierced was popular with pirates; the value of the earring was meant to pay for their burial if they were lost at sea and their body washed ashore.
    More recently, even less accurate depictions of historical-era pirates have advanced to the forefront. However, these phenomena have only served to advance the romantic image of piracy and its treasure-burying swashbucklers in popular culture.

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  14. Xgentis Member

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    Nope it does not belong to the dutch.:mad:
     
  15. aegis03florin Well-Known Member

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    Uff, Francophiles, Dutchophile, Walonophiles, Flemishphiles, Anglophiles, Germanophiles, Royalophiles, Republicophiles, we are too much! :eek:

    Can I propose the following solution : Spanish Netherlands to become the Pirate's Republic of Belgica, with an agreement with Kingdom of France similar to Swiss Cantons :cool:.

    Everybody agrees ?


    Oh, and the office of the president to be named "The Blackbeard Office".
     
  16. antoine Well-Known Member

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    The King is Dead , Long live the King (1715)

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    Philip VII , King of France


    After 72 years on the throne, Louis died of gangrene at Versailles on 1 September 1715, four days before his 77th birthday. Enduring much pain in his last days, he finally "yielded up his soul without any effort, like a candle going out" while reciting the psalm Domine, ad adjuvandum me festina . According to the legend his last words were " I fall , but France still stands " . His body was laid to rest in the Basilica of St-Denis outside Paris where it remained there undisturbed today . By the time of his death, Louis was predeceased by most of his immediate legitimate family. His last surviving son, the Dauphin, died in 1712 . The Duke of Burgundy had been killed during the war of the Spanish Succession ,and he was the eldest of the Dauphin's three sons . Burgundy's had no son, and his brother Charles , duke of Berry died in 1714 , Louis's heir was as a result Philip V of Spain . But Louis foresaw a minority in the nobles ,Philip V was not popular at all in France , the scandals of the Princess of the Ursins revealing who was the real power in Madrid and so Louis chose reluctantly his nephew , Philip , duke of Orléans , who, as closest surviving legitimate relative in France, would become the new King as Philip VII , King of France .

    Displeased with the King action, Louis-Auguste , Duke of Maine, one of Louis's natural sons , pressured by his ambitious wife, joined in the Cellamare Conspiracy in the hope of giving the crown to King Philip V of Spain . The plot was named after Antonio del Giudice, Prince di Cellamare, the Spanish ambassador to the French court. After the conspiracy was discovered on September 15 , du Maine was arrested , imprisoned in the fortress of Doullens where he was later executed, and his wife was exiled to Dijon.

    But peace was a thing of the past , and the morning after the conspiracy was stopped , Spain declared war to France , soon followed by England , Portugal , the Holy Roman Empire , the Netherlands and Denmark-Norway . The Ottoman Empire and Sweden received similar declarations from their traditional enemies ,the Empire , Russia and Poland . Savoy chose to remain neutral in the conflict , as did Prussia , the two Kings hadn't seen anything worth the fight . The war who began was named the war of the French Succession , but all the Kings knew it was a war of revenge , a chance to avenge all the defeats they had suffered during the reign of Louis XIV ...

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  17. Xgentis Member

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    Spain is doomed as for the Netherlands I don't think they would have taken the risk of opposing France when they no longuer have the Spanish netherlands as a buffer. Hell Englnd can't really threaten France anymore outside of retaking South England it does not have the navy to protect it's colonies. I am not worried about the rest of the coalition Spain armies are worthless, Portugual navy isn't what it was once, and the dutch navy will easily be blockaded.
     
  18. BELFAST Irish Confederate

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    What affect have famines had on events.

    1670s and 1680s Plague and famines in Spain Spain
    1680 Famine in Sardinia[32] Italy (present day) 80,000 [33] 1680s Famine in Sahel

    1690s Famine throughout Scotland which killed 15% of the population Scotland
    1693–1694
    France 2 million[34][35] 1695–1697 Great Famine of Estonia killed about a fifth of Estonian and Livonian population (70,000–75,000 people). Famine also hit Sweden (80,000–100,000 dead) The Swedish Empire, of which Swedish Estonia and Swedish Livonia were dominions at that time
    1696–1697 Great Famine of Finland wiped out almost a third of the population[36] Finland, then part of Sweden proper
    1702–1704 Famine in Deccan India 2 million 1708–1711 Famine in East Prussia killed 250,000 people or 41% of its population[37] East Prussia 250,000 1709–1710
    France[38]
    1722
    Arabia[39]
    1727–1728 Famine in the English Midlands[40] England
    1738–1756 Famine in West Africa, half the population of Timbuktu died of starvation[41] West Africa
    1740-1741 Great Irish Famine (1740–1741) Ireland
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
     
  19. Xgentis Member

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    So Philippe VII is the OTL Philippe II, Duke of Orléans? Then you have someone well educated,he does not share Louis XIV taste for dance and hunting he might even choose to not go settle in Versailles. In fact during the regency of OTL Louis XV he settled in the Palais-Royal rather then Versailles. He was a good officer but didn't ride horse very well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2013
  20. antoine Well-Known Member

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    The famines before 1690 happened and had about the same effect they did in OTL . ( The POD didn't affect this )

    The famine in France in 1694 was much less severe as the war ended right this year but killed nearly half a million people . The famines between 1694 and 1700 were also less severe because the war was finished in Europe earlier . As a result Sweden ( and her provinces ) emerged more powerful than OTL .

    The famine in the Deccan still happened as the situation in India is pretty much the same as OTL , and there have been significant food shortages in 1708 in Prussia and in 1709 in France (make no mistake , hundreds of people still died ) but overall the famines of the War of the Spanish Succession didn't kill as many people as they killed in OTL .

    As for later famines , I won't tell you , as it would unveil the plot :D ...