There are only about 20-30 thousand Romanish (going by my estimates). That's about the population of a small French city ITTL.
In this country , it is good to kill an admiral from time to time
- Thread starter Antony444
- Start date
1) No, it's just the fact I didn't post an update last week save the map...1. A chapter posted on a day other than the weekend? The world must be ending!
2. Will Bavaria ever consider uniting with Westphalia? France is already getting control over it, so it'd be one united puppet. France certainly would see this as an absolute win!
3. Why doesn't England take Amsterdam? It's not like the city's significant enough to endanger France. Related to that, how is the part of Holland that England owns doing (and how many people do they have)?
4. Related to the above, will England ever get even 1 impressive colony (great, you made me feel bad for the British Empire, thanks a lot).
5. Perhaps Switzerland gets partitioned? The German parts go to Westphalia, and the French and Italian parts go to France (France has 13 million Italians, a few hundred thousand more won't change anything).
2) It's not impossible, but the two have very different national identities and have never been unified in a single nation before. From France, yes that's an absolutely win. The Bavarians may be less thrilled.
3) Politics and it's good to have an 'impartial' location where you can conduct all the shady business, use as a scapegoat when they're financial scandals and plenty of other reasons which prove humans can be really imperfect...
4) Well, technically they have Angola and Mozambique, since they own economically nearly everything there. A colony in their name...maybe, but that's far from sure.
5) Obviously, I have my plans for Switzerland and I'm not sharing them right now. Otherwise there's not much point to do an update next week...
I'm not sure there are enough people for something like Liechtenstein...
Create a "German Confederation" of sorts ?
Ah, it's a Monaco.
Liecht isn't that big. Nor is Andorra.
Sébastien
Kicked
Damn! I just realize that in this TL, there isn't Guiness 5 or 6 Nations in rugby, snif (Go France! We believe in Grand Slam!). Does rugby or soccer even exist?! What about football? basketball? I do remember vaguely that you made a chapter about restarting the Olympics... I am kidding of course but after this weekend of rugby, the idea pop in my mind and I couldn't shake it off, so there it is. You could probably wrote a crack chapter between 2 periods using sports as a subject.
Btw, I like Amsterdam as a free tax place but it can't be a Monaco or a San Marino... it is f***ing too cold that far North, forget the glamour, the minikini and the sl... I mean the goldiggers and their counterparts, the gigolo (I am an equalist, the dark side doesn't care about gender)
Btw, I like Amsterdam as a free tax place but it can't be a Monaco or a San Marino... it is f***ing too cold that far North, forget the glamour, the minikini and the sl... I mean the goldiggers and their counterparts, the gigolo (I am an equalist, the dark side doesn't care about gender)
You know what would be hilarious.... an Oversimplified video of this timeline!
There is probably going to be some German, Polish, or Swedish fascist in the 1920's or 1930's whose father punished him severely.
I'm already thinking about Oversimplified lines for the Great War!
There is probably going to be some German, Polish, or Swedish fascist in the 1920's or 1930's whose father punished him severely.
I'm already thinking about Oversimplified lines for the Great War!
Banks of Rebellion (Switzerland 1912)
If one asked to an inhabitant of Western or Central Europe where the Swiss Army had fought during the Great War, the most likely answer one would receive was the Liechtenstein front...or the Liechtenstein-Bavarian front, as the fighting alas wasn’t limited to this small principality which had somehow in this century of great nations and empires managed to retain its independence.
This wasn’t wrong. Over ninety percent of Switzerland indeed went to Liechtenstein and their northern frontier to, as an English politician famously said, “keep the flame of Bavarian resistance alive”. The Swiss Army paid a heavy price in blood and funds in this world war. The mobilisation of every part of an economy to fight in the trenches and fortified positions was without doubt favouring countries with large population, and they didn’t include in their ranks Switzerland.
The effect was somewhat limited demographically as the nation received plenty of German and Italian refugees during and after the conflict.
But as 1912 began, the Swiss Republic could not be considered an economic giant...or a giant in any domain save chocolate, watchmaking and banking. The 1912 population was barely reaching 3.1 million, and while some of its most prestigious firms were making their French rivals enrage behind the scenes, Switzerland was rarely seen as a model to emulate politically.
The Hunziker government who had led the Republic during the last two years of the Great War didn’t survive the peace treaty signed at London in 1902. Its successor, the Meyer government, managed to hold on until 1904 before being ejected from power. Right and left parties were unable to chart a correct course, and the parliamentary system was more and more weighing towards not tolerating ‘strong men’ leading the country. The result was a series of short-term policies which didn’t improve the economic situation. Moreover, tensions between German-speaking and Italian-speaking communities were high. Switzerland had by conviction, pragmatism and foreign aggression on its neighbour chosen to side with the Entente, and had pursued this path on the late part of the 1900s. But for every family which thought the correct choice had been made, there was another who believed the Congress of London had been unfair in the divide of the spoils. France had annexed Southern Italy when Swiss claims had existed long before a Bourbon was proclaimed King of France. Others politely argued France had erased massive debts accumulated by the Ruegg and Hunziker governments, and that Switzerland had certainly not participated in the defeat of Venice.
The enthusiasm in the political debates turned many times particularly violent, and people were very glad the Collectivists were gone, for these troublemakers would no doubt have tried to throw more gunpowder on the flames.
But the deflagration did not come where everyone was watching. Unknown to the majority of the public, the Bern Credit Bank, one of the most powerful Swiss banking establishments, had made...really unwise investments, in part based on the certainty the gold standard would continue to exist until the end of this century and in part that certain debts before the Great War would be honoured. For if the banking system had rapidly chosen to declare for the Entente, the heads of the Bern Credit Bank had far more ambiguous courses and loaned money to many industrial actors which would become sadly infamous during the Great War. And these actors had more Polish and Saxon accents than French, it had to be said.
That the Bern Credit Bank and several of the other banks having participated in the affair managed to keep the secret out of sight for so long spoke well of their professionalism, if not of their sense of morals and patriotism.
But the unpaid debts were still a ticking bomb, invisible but always present. The French Empress and Paris had reimbursed the Swiss government for its Great War expenses, but nowhere had it been question of Union investments, and as everyone knew, the Saxon Empire, the Polish Kingdom and their allies had either been destroyed, or declared bankruptcy a decade ago. The mountains of papers the guilty bankers had kept in their vaults were worth a rope for treason if they were caught.
On April 1912 someone talked. It was difficult to place a name on the exact identity of the man who had revealed the dirty big secret, for before the next day was over three of the most important men of the Bern Credit Bank took their own lives and five others suffered the ire of their neighbours in a very violent manner.
The Bern Credit Bank didn’t survive the week, as thousands of Swiss citizens swarmed to recover what money they could as the scale of the illegal activities was progressively revealed in the daily newspapers and on the radio.
Since many financial establishments had been closely tied together, the fall of one component brought the collapse of others. By the end of April, the desperate efforts of the right-centre government had allowed them to save two banks, and it was not enough to provide a complete financial collapse of the Swiss banking system.
And now a lot of people were furious, including but not limited to many wealthy French, Austrian, Westphalian, English, and Spanish businessmen and bankers.
Before they could do more than exchange the very cold diplomatic courtesies, the barricades returned to Bern. The Collectivists were extinct, but the Anarchist Revolutionary Committee was extremely interested in continuing the job where their comrades-in-revolution had left it...
If one asked to an inhabitant of Western or Central Europe where the Swiss Army had fought during the Great War, the most likely answer one would receive was the Liechtenstein front...or the Liechtenstein-Bavarian front, as the fighting alas wasn’t limited to this small principality which had somehow in this century of great nations and empires managed to retain its independence.
This wasn’t wrong. Over ninety percent of Switzerland indeed went to Liechtenstein and their northern frontier to, as an English politician famously said, “keep the flame of Bavarian resistance alive”. The Swiss Army paid a heavy price in blood and funds in this world war. The mobilisation of every part of an economy to fight in the trenches and fortified positions was without doubt favouring countries with large population, and they didn’t include in their ranks Switzerland.
The effect was somewhat limited demographically as the nation received plenty of German and Italian refugees during and after the conflict.
But as 1912 began, the Swiss Republic could not be considered an economic giant...or a giant in any domain save chocolate, watchmaking and banking. The 1912 population was barely reaching 3.1 million, and while some of its most prestigious firms were making their French rivals enrage behind the scenes, Switzerland was rarely seen as a model to emulate politically.
The Hunziker government who had led the Republic during the last two years of the Great War didn’t survive the peace treaty signed at London in 1902. Its successor, the Meyer government, managed to hold on until 1904 before being ejected from power. Right and left parties were unable to chart a correct course, and the parliamentary system was more and more weighing towards not tolerating ‘strong men’ leading the country. The result was a series of short-term policies which didn’t improve the economic situation. Moreover, tensions between German-speaking and Italian-speaking communities were high. Switzerland had by conviction, pragmatism and foreign aggression on its neighbour chosen to side with the Entente, and had pursued this path on the late part of the 1900s. But for every family which thought the correct choice had been made, there was another who believed the Congress of London had been unfair in the divide of the spoils. France had annexed Southern Italy when Swiss claims had existed long before a Bourbon was proclaimed King of France. Others politely argued France had erased massive debts accumulated by the Ruegg and Hunziker governments, and that Switzerland had certainly not participated in the defeat of Venice.
The enthusiasm in the political debates turned many times particularly violent, and people were very glad the Collectivists were gone, for these troublemakers would no doubt have tried to throw more gunpowder on the flames.
But the deflagration did not come where everyone was watching. Unknown to the majority of the public, the Bern Credit Bank, one of the most powerful Swiss banking establishments, had made...really unwise investments, in part based on the certainty the gold standard would continue to exist until the end of this century and in part that certain debts before the Great War would be honoured. For if the banking system had rapidly chosen to declare for the Entente, the heads of the Bern Credit Bank had far more ambiguous courses and loaned money to many industrial actors which would become sadly infamous during the Great War. And these actors had more Polish and Saxon accents than French, it had to be said.
That the Bern Credit Bank and several of the other banks having participated in the affair managed to keep the secret out of sight for so long spoke well of their professionalism, if not of their sense of morals and patriotism.
But the unpaid debts were still a ticking bomb, invisible but always present. The French Empress and Paris had reimbursed the Swiss government for its Great War expenses, but nowhere had it been question of Union investments, and as everyone knew, the Saxon Empire, the Polish Kingdom and their allies had either been destroyed, or declared bankruptcy a decade ago. The mountains of papers the guilty bankers had kept in their vaults were worth a rope for treason if they were caught.
On April 1912 someone talked. It was difficult to place a name on the exact identity of the man who had revealed the dirty big secret, for before the next day was over three of the most important men of the Bern Credit Bank took their own lives and five others suffered the ire of their neighbours in a very violent manner.
The Bern Credit Bank didn’t survive the week, as thousands of Swiss citizens swarmed to recover what money they could as the scale of the illegal activities was progressively revealed in the daily newspapers and on the radio.
Since many financial establishments had been closely tied together, the fall of one component brought the collapse of others. By the end of April, the desperate efforts of the right-centre government had allowed them to save two banks, and it was not enough to provide a complete financial collapse of the Swiss banking system.
And now a lot of people were furious, including but not limited to many wealthy French, Austrian, Westphalian, English, and Spanish businessmen and bankers.
Before they could do more than exchange the very cold diplomatic courtesies, the barricades returned to Bern. The Collectivists were extinct, but the Anarchist Revolutionary Committee was extremely interested in continuing the job where their comrades-in-revolution had left it...
Communist Switzerland is one of the greatest oxymorons that alternate history has ever given us.
Anyways, would good ol’ Antony mind telling us which nations lost the most people in the Great War? If not, could you at least give us the death tolls of all the pre-war great powers? And would 60 million be a good estimate for the total death count of the Great War? Or is the body count closer to 100 million (considering Indonesia alone saw 11 million dead, and that wasn’t even a big theater).
I apologize for all the questions, but I want to get a better scope of the Great War, since all I really know is that it made OTL WW1 look like a tea party.
Anyways, would good ol’ Antony mind telling us which nations lost the most people in the Great War? If not, could you at least give us the death tolls of all the pre-war great powers? And would 60 million be a good estimate for the total death count of the Great War? Or is the body count closer to 100 million (considering Indonesia alone saw 11 million dead, and that wasn’t even a big theater).
I apologize for all the questions, but I want to get a better scope of the Great War, since all I really know is that it made OTL WW1 look like a tea party.
For Switzerland not to have French/Romand communities, I have to assume that Romandy was annexed a while ago, at least when it comes to Valais and Vaud ?
Sébastien
Kicked
Ouch, 10 years after the war, banks are the problem. OTL and TTL have their differences but also their similarities. I imagine the countries who need the money of the banks are sweating like never?
'29 & its consequences help Hitler and Mussolini to access to Power. How far and how many banks will fall in this alternate world? Will France invade Switzerland like it did the Ruhr in OTL? (even if the reasons are different) Is this "arc" about the rise of fascism and totalitarianism? The prelude for the next round of wars?
Finally, does the anarchist realize most Europeans rulers haven't forget them? Serbia is rather isolated South of AH who wasn't in any condition to interfere at the time. Now? They might use what is happening in Switzerland as an excuse to conquer and annex, a good and fast victory to forget the Great War and restore some Greatness to its armies.
Again, there is so many possibilities, I really like that about this TL, we can always see plenty of possible futures!
'29 & its consequences help Hitler and Mussolini to access to Power. How far and how many banks will fall in this alternate world? Will France invade Switzerland like it did the Ruhr in OTL? (even if the reasons are different) Is this "arc" about the rise of fascism and totalitarianism? The prelude for the next round of wars?
Finally, does the anarchist realize most Europeans rulers haven't forget them? Serbia is rather isolated South of AH who wasn't in any condition to interfere at the time. Now? They might use what is happening in Switzerland as an excuse to conquer and annex, a good and fast victory to forget the Great War and restore some Greatness to its armies.
Again, there is so many possibilities, I really like that about this TL, we can always see plenty of possible futures!
They have romand communities (they are the one who did invite French armies to crush the Collectivists last time there was a civil war) but there are a minority vs Germans and Italians communities especially after many of the losers of the last war emmigrating to Switzerland.
And yeah France will not accept an anarchist country at his door which has 2/3 of his frontier with them (even more if you count westphalia). It will probably start a proxy war between France, German and Italians revolutionnaries/nationalists and some other countries (Bavaria, Saxony and Austria-Hungary for example)
Bah, surely countries are going to stay sane and rational, the Anarchists are...
(see pitchforkes and torches on the horizon)
Let's invade Switzerland, men!
Proportionally, I think it was the Sikhs who lost the most...numerically it was certainly the Chinas, by virtue of having some of the largest armies and supply problems guaranteeing tens of thousands deaths as there were insufficient medicine specialists to treat adequately everyone.
The body count was certainly close to 110 million dead and missing (including all deaths linked to the war like diseases and the like). There were less deaths in Russia than OTL for example, but the fact the carnage was not concentrated on one continent made sure the slaughter was really total.
When one speaks about the Great War TTL, people aren't able to say 'there were plenty of nations untouched by it'...
They have some communities, but between France annexing some lands and different waves of immigration and war, these are definitely very small minorities and those don't have any weight compared to the two largest powerhouses.
Nah, surely everyone is happy to see his or her funds go up in smoke...
This is going to be interesting...and I will not answer before next chapter which sort of consequences this is going to have. But yeah, this is going to be an arc...of sorts.
Thanks for the positive returns!
110 million dead..... Oh god. I severely underestimated how bloody this war was.
Also, you're saying that the China's each lost more than 11 million people (since that was how many people Indonesia lost)? WOW. Talk about carnage.
Btw, saying Russia lost less than IOTL is like saying Italy was more competent than IOTL
.I know that France lost about 5 million, Poland lost at least 2.7 million (I am seriously lowballing this), and Portugal lost (by my somewhat decent estimates) about 184,000 people.
Edit, the list of nations not involved in the war in any major way is tiny:
1. Albania (yes they sent 5000 volunteers but that's it, I'm not counting that). They got land for doing next to nothing.
2. Golden Republic
3. New Virginia (yes they technically joined their alliance but they did absolutely nothing)
4. Delaware (see New Virginia)
5. Maryland
6. Afghan Empire (who, like Albania, got land for doing nothing whatsoever)
7. Tibet
Also, what are the odds that the Ghurka king tries invading Hindustan (or maybe Tibet) to make the people like him (please do this, Antony, I want the Ghurkas to get some good luck).
Last edited:
I would also count the Cape whose participation was moslty sending adventurers in Indonesia and formenting revolts there.
Not a huge drain in manpower or economical power as they were one of the few countries which was ready to go to war immediatly after (the conflict with Madagascar where at the end the Cape has a parity in Navy and an huge advantage in troops).
Another country is Australasia which just march without opposition and took half of the Eastern Indies part of Australia.
But yeah most of the countries were ravaged or use a lot of their manpower/ressources during the war.
1. Considering how much of a menace Teddy Roosevelt was and how much damage he did in Batavia, I am going to say that the Cape was pretty involved in at least one part of the war,
2. Australasia technically wasn’t neutral, so I didn’t consider it part of the list,
Ok, mini wall-of-text:
1. How many French battleships were sunk during the war, and were there any major battles where multiple French battleships were sunk (other than the battle against Denmark)? Just want to know the moments when the French navy wasn't unstoppable (I like a good under-dog moment).
2. Will the Ghurkas invade either Tibet or Hindustan (preferably the latter)? I just want the Ghurkas to catch a break, like Chuan China.
3. Will Florida and Carolina have a final showdown?
4. Will carriers see their debut in the navy soon?
5. Will oil be discovered soon? I already know that the UPNG will have loads of it due to owning OTL Venezuela.
1. How many French battleships were sunk during the war, and were there any major battles where multiple French battleships were sunk (other than the battle against Denmark)? Just want to know the moments when the French navy wasn't unstoppable (I like a good under-dog moment).
2. Will the Ghurkas invade either Tibet or Hindustan (preferably the latter)? I just want the Ghurkas to catch a break, like Chuan China.
3. Will Florida and Carolina have a final showdown?
4. Will carriers see their debut in the navy soon?
5. Will oil be discovered soon? I already know that the UPNG will have loads of it due to owning OTL Venezuela.
1) The Battle of the Skagerrak was the major naval battle and the only one where the French Navy was truly bloodied. With the allies it had (England and Russia to name but a few) France had a very advantageous position from the very beginning, and it got worse for the alliance as the Panama Canal was damaged, the VOC fleet got torn apart in a civil war, the Omani fleet was beaten handily...in a way the French took more casualties than they should have at Skagerrak because they really had no battle against a near-peer opponent for the rest of the Great War. The other serious opponents were in the Pacific...but leaving enemies free to sail and uncover the motherland's defences would have been...unwise politically and militarily. So no, in general it was lone battleships which were lost on the other theatres, and in general not the most powerful units (since those were kept in Europe for the most part).
2) You don't want me to tell you the rest of the story, by the way?
3) It's highly likely there will be a new war, given the enmities. Whether it is the final one...
4) Soon, yes, though naval conservatism and the fact the performance of airplanes is rather mediocre for the moment will unavoidably slow down their development.
5) It has been discovered and its properties are more and more known. But going from coal to fuel is not exactly a cheap adventure, and of course there's always a lot of coal-based interests not happy at seeing their purse getting potentially lighter...