In this country , it is good to kill an admiral from time to time
- Thread starter Antony444
- Start date
It would be a waste, if they want to get rid of them they could expulse them into Portuguese colony; destabilize the colonies and get rid of the black population.I have the feeling republic of the Cape will soon get to more final mesure when dealing with it's black population...
No need to go to Final measure immediately!
Apparently, the Cape is getting a lot of Germans as well.
Wait a second, this means the Cape can no longer be in the Slaver's alliance! Though IIRC, as of 1897 they did have a single battleship right before the war started.
I am going with 9.2 million in population for the whites and proper citizens. For the black people...well, they're not first-class citizens, aren't they?
Corrected.
I have the feeling republic of the Cape will soon get to more final mesure when dealing with it's black population...
No, this isn't at the order of the day...for now.
The percentage of the slave-owning population is getting lower as the Cape modernises, so there's less malcontents than you imply. And many great land-owners have just replaced the name 'slave' by 'indentured worker' or 'serf', while little things have changed in real life.
The Slaver's Alliance was already a very loose confederation of divergent interests, and it was already dead mid-war, courtesy of none of the allies coming to the help of each other.
Well, it was the logical path for the Cape, it was also the best move at the best time. It doesn't mean all is good in Cape, they are clearly late in the technological course but contrary to Russia, it is now their only priority, not absorbing conquered lands that are more "advanced" socially and technologically than yourself. The Bear really doesn't understand what it had done to itself, can't wait for this update.
Since we are in Africa, will you finished the conquest of Africa by France, Portugal/England and Spain (even if the latter with all his domestic problems shouldn't really have the means to expand) or will it be a part of the next stage?
Since we are in Africa, will you finished the conquest of Africa by France, Portugal/England and Spain (even if the latter with all his domestic problems shouldn't really have the means to expand) or will it be a part of the next stage?
I certainly intend for the next update to be Africa and its divide as a whole, but since I won't be away next week from Monday to Friday, it's possible (and even very likely) there will be a very big delay before it comes out.
Things that I predict will happen from 1910 to 1920:
Globally:
1. Rebuilding, big time (Edit: I got this right but this was obvious so it doesn't count)
2. More global trade due to France owning a larger amount of the global economy than ever before (Edit: got this right)
3. Rise of liberal ideas and even Collectivism (Edit: Collectivist revolt in Laos and liberal ideas in multiple nations means I got this right)
Europe:
1. Sweden might try to do some funny business.
2. England and Ireland crack down on what was once Scotland, and England tries to better integrate the part of Dutch Germany they took
3. Russia is gonna face some serious internal issue (with Poland and H-A funding the rebels), both in their new territories and in places like Ukraine. Heck, a Collectivist revolution during the war managed to kill the king. (Edit: Got this right as shown by Russia's internal troubles)
America:
1. France cracks down on supporters of Louisiana.
2. The 3 parts of former New Spain try to rebuild
3. Carolina and Florida build up in preparation for a showdown to end their conflict one and for all (Edit; I hope to God this comes true and Florida dies)
4. Brazil tries (key word is tries) to get better
5. Chile and Peru might fight again
Asia:
1. All of India rebuilds (except for the former Sikh Empire)
2. A group in the former Sikh Empire may come out on top and unite the territories. It'll be a collectivist, extremist/fascist, or person who genuinely wants to modernize and westernize the nation. (Edit: Holy crap, I actually got this one 100% right! Well, him being an extremist was only one of the possibilities I foresaw but I'll still take it!)
3. Wu China will likely get taken by Chuan China since Russia likely won't interfere. Chuan China may also try to buy or negotiate for Taiwan. (Edit: I was right that China is now unified but unfortunately Taiwan is still Californian).
4. Vietnam will likely be a member of the UPNG's alliance. (Edit: It seems that I'll soon be right on this one)
5. Japan will try to find a way to get Hokkaido back and try to find somewhere in general to expand into.
Africa:
1. Cape will likely become a 3rd-rate or maybe even a 2nd-rate power. (Edit: got this one right)
2. More Europeans will move to Africa.
Globally:
1. Rebuilding, big time (Edit: I got this right but this was obvious so it doesn't count)
2. More global trade due to France owning a larger amount of the global economy than ever before (Edit: got this right)
3. Rise of liberal ideas and even Collectivism (Edit: Collectivist revolt in Laos and liberal ideas in multiple nations means I got this right)
Europe:
1. Sweden might try to do some funny business.
2. England and Ireland crack down on what was once Scotland, and England tries to better integrate the part of Dutch Germany they took
3. Russia is gonna face some serious internal issue (with Poland and H-A funding the rebels), both in their new territories and in places like Ukraine. Heck, a Collectivist revolution during the war managed to kill the king. (Edit: Got this right as shown by Russia's internal troubles)
America:
1. France cracks down on supporters of Louisiana.
2. The 3 parts of former New Spain try to rebuild
3. Carolina and Florida build up in preparation for a showdown to end their conflict one and for all (Edit; I hope to God this comes true and Florida dies)
4. Brazil tries (key word is tries) to get better
5. Chile and Peru might fight again
Asia:
1. All of India rebuilds (except for the former Sikh Empire)
2. A group in the former Sikh Empire may come out on top and unite the territories. It'll be a collectivist, extremist/fascist, or person who genuinely wants to modernize and westernize the nation. (Edit: Holy crap, I actually got this one 100% right! Well, him being an extremist was only one of the possibilities I foresaw but I'll still take it!)
3. Wu China will likely get taken by Chuan China since Russia likely won't interfere. Chuan China may also try to buy or negotiate for Taiwan. (Edit: I was right that China is now unified but unfortunately Taiwan is still Californian).
4. Vietnam will likely be a member of the UPNG's alliance. (Edit: It seems that I'll soon be right on this one)
5. Japan will try to find a way to get Hokkaido back and try to find somewhere in general to expand into.
Africa:
1. Cape will likely become a 3rd-rate or maybe even a 2nd-rate power. (Edit: got this one right)
2. More Europeans will move to Africa.
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Creating new Frontiers (Africa 1902-1910)
The end of the Great War brought radical changes to Africa. Where before the conflict the European Union and the Central Alliance had tried to establish large colonies and challenge the Entente in a shock-and-awe strategy, five years later there was nothing left to show for their efforts. Saxony, Denmark, Oman and Habsburg Italy had lost decades of infrastructure investment and conquests at the very beginning of the twentieth history.
That wasn’t to say the victors were really strong enough to capitalise on their victory, of course. Portugal was still officially controlling Angola and Mozambique, but the wars waged in the Iberian Peninsula ended any hope of the Portugal Kings to return as a Great Power. The situation was a paradox in a way: the numbers of European-born colonists never stopped increasing after 1902, but the income the Portuguese companies were able to obtain from the African colonies was stagnating. This strange outcome was explained by the rapacity of the English traders and businessmen, who more and more saw themselves as the true masters of the region. Yes, it officially belonged to Portugal on a map, but everyone knew who was holding the leash (England not Portugal, if you had not followed).
The English-Portuguese relationships did not improve from this unequal hierarchy order. In 1910, one could describe them as ‘frosty’. But there were extremely warm compared to the hatred most black-skinned men and women felt towards their masters. The quotas and the ever increasing demands of ore and resources, the lack of investment in the native population and the high levels of racism made sure the revolts were frequent and bloody.
By 1910, the population of Angola, counting Europeans settlers, barely reached 2 million and Mozambique was at 1.6 million. It showed no sign of improving, with the words of ‘serfdom’ and ‘semi-slavery’ being regularly used when one massacre or awful details managed to arrive on the headlines of British or Portuguese newspaper.
In these societal and demographics conditions, trying to push back the Republic of the Cape southwards or provoking Theodore Roosevelt would have been particularly foolhardy, and the Portuguese as a result refused to provide help to Madagascar in the 1900s.
Further north, another country created by exiles was experiencing major problems. New Virginia’s inhabitants had held against all evidence and diplomatic talks the hope they would be able to liberate the country of their ancestors.
Naturally, the winners of the Great War found ridiculous the idea 1.4 million of fanatics – the number of citizens New Virginia acknowledged, deliberately ignoring the slaves - determined to torch Carolinian homes and turn aside the events of the last half-century would be authorised to cross back the Atlantic Ocean. Yes, Carolina had been on the losing side of the war. But nobody, not even Florida or other enemy factions, was so filled with hatred to not understand the potential nightmare of a restored Virginian ‘Consulate’ by the descendants of Calhoun and Washington.
The outcry in the New Virginian towns was not pleasant to watch. French, Carolinian, Spanish and even UPNG flags were burned by white-hooded ‘priests’ walking in long and sinister processions. The talks of ‘Manifest Destiny’ went from extreme to absolutely frightening. As for the treatment of slaves, it was so awful even Imperial Spain began to raise concerns. The natives who had inhabited these lands long before any white-skinned man discovered them were enduring a cruel tyranny which showed no sign of stopping.
It was in this unpleasant atmosphere that the representatives of the nations who had territories in Africa participated to a Congress in the eternal city of Bastia on 1905 and onwards. With the end of the hostilities, explorators, outlaw adventurers and regular troops were returning to the familiar and dangerous games which had so often nearly precipitated the world into a worldwide ocean of bloodshed.
To every observer’s surprise, the Empires of France and Holy Spain found rapidly agreement on a certain number of points. Madrid wanted Southern Andalusia – which was not considered a colony but an integral part of their homeland – to have the physical opportunity to be linked with New Palma in the future. Paris, on the other hand, wanted its Centrafrica and Guinea domains to have a frontier. The Ethiopians, who began to voice louder and louder their opposition, were unable to weigh significantly on the debate as they were already struggling to hold the annexed provinces they had grabbed from Oman. In fact, Portugal was able to push largely its south-eastern frontier northwards, their backing from England and other Entente countries helping their cause.
Obviously, the nations not invited to sit around the table to devour Africa between themselves watched with growing unease the outcome of these negotiations. Not because the creation of Spanish Sahara between Southern Andalusia and New Palma was a problem; anyone who had ever seen the new ‘photos’ of the Sahara could care less about that. No, the UPNG and China could care less about the millions of tons of sand the Spanish had annexed. It was the principle of the thing...and the sign the number of players had been so reduced on the world stage that two of the great Empires could decide something and enforce it on the world stage without caring if someone objected or not.
It was also a political dilemma. The treaties of the Great War had made sure there would be other wars to fight. And for the survivors of the Central Alliance each now seeking their own path, the path of the instable but ultra-catholic Imperial Spain was not acceptable. Unfortunately, neither was becoming a puppet of the French Empire, who had grown too powerful to be stopped by a lone country. And so pacts in the shadows continued, as Africa fell under the colonial empires’ rule...
The end of the Great War brought radical changes to Africa. Where before the conflict the European Union and the Central Alliance had tried to establish large colonies and challenge the Entente in a shock-and-awe strategy, five years later there was nothing left to show for their efforts. Saxony, Denmark, Oman and Habsburg Italy had lost decades of infrastructure investment and conquests at the very beginning of the twentieth history.
That wasn’t to say the victors were really strong enough to capitalise on their victory, of course. Portugal was still officially controlling Angola and Mozambique, but the wars waged in the Iberian Peninsula ended any hope of the Portugal Kings to return as a Great Power. The situation was a paradox in a way: the numbers of European-born colonists never stopped increasing after 1902, but the income the Portuguese companies were able to obtain from the African colonies was stagnating. This strange outcome was explained by the rapacity of the English traders and businessmen, who more and more saw themselves as the true masters of the region. Yes, it officially belonged to Portugal on a map, but everyone knew who was holding the leash (England not Portugal, if you had not followed).
The English-Portuguese relationships did not improve from this unequal hierarchy order. In 1910, one could describe them as ‘frosty’. But there were extremely warm compared to the hatred most black-skinned men and women felt towards their masters. The quotas and the ever increasing demands of ore and resources, the lack of investment in the native population and the high levels of racism made sure the revolts were frequent and bloody.
By 1910, the population of Angola, counting Europeans settlers, barely reached 2 million and Mozambique was at 1.6 million. It showed no sign of improving, with the words of ‘serfdom’ and ‘semi-slavery’ being regularly used when one massacre or awful details managed to arrive on the headlines of British or Portuguese newspaper.
In these societal and demographics conditions, trying to push back the Republic of the Cape southwards or provoking Theodore Roosevelt would have been particularly foolhardy, and the Portuguese as a result refused to provide help to Madagascar in the 1900s.
Further north, another country created by exiles was experiencing major problems. New Virginia’s inhabitants had held against all evidence and diplomatic talks the hope they would be able to liberate the country of their ancestors.
Naturally, the winners of the Great War found ridiculous the idea 1.4 million of fanatics – the number of citizens New Virginia acknowledged, deliberately ignoring the slaves - determined to torch Carolinian homes and turn aside the events of the last half-century would be authorised to cross back the Atlantic Ocean. Yes, Carolina had been on the losing side of the war. But nobody, not even Florida or other enemy factions, was so filled with hatred to not understand the potential nightmare of a restored Virginian ‘Consulate’ by the descendants of Calhoun and Washington.
The outcry in the New Virginian towns was not pleasant to watch. French, Carolinian, Spanish and even UPNG flags were burned by white-hooded ‘priests’ walking in long and sinister processions. The talks of ‘Manifest Destiny’ went from extreme to absolutely frightening. As for the treatment of slaves, it was so awful even Imperial Spain began to raise concerns. The natives who had inhabited these lands long before any white-skinned man discovered them were enduring a cruel tyranny which showed no sign of stopping.
It was in this unpleasant atmosphere that the representatives of the nations who had territories in Africa participated to a Congress in the eternal city of Bastia on 1905 and onwards. With the end of the hostilities, explorators, outlaw adventurers and regular troops were returning to the familiar and dangerous games which had so often nearly precipitated the world into a worldwide ocean of bloodshed.
To every observer’s surprise, the Empires of France and Holy Spain found rapidly agreement on a certain number of points. Madrid wanted Southern Andalusia – which was not considered a colony but an integral part of their homeland – to have the physical opportunity to be linked with New Palma in the future. Paris, on the other hand, wanted its Centrafrica and Guinea domains to have a frontier. The Ethiopians, who began to voice louder and louder their opposition, were unable to weigh significantly on the debate as they were already struggling to hold the annexed provinces they had grabbed from Oman. In fact, Portugal was able to push largely its south-eastern frontier northwards, their backing from England and other Entente countries helping their cause.
Obviously, the nations not invited to sit around the table to devour Africa between themselves watched with growing unease the outcome of these negotiations. Not because the creation of Spanish Sahara between Southern Andalusia and New Palma was a problem; anyone who had ever seen the new ‘photos’ of the Sahara could care less about that. No, the UPNG and China could care less about the millions of tons of sand the Spanish had annexed. It was the principle of the thing...and the sign the number of players had been so reduced on the world stage that two of the great Empires could decide something and enforce it on the world stage without caring if someone objected or not.
It was also a political dilemma. The treaties of the Great War had made sure there would be other wars to fight. And for the survivors of the Central Alliance each now seeking their own path, the path of the instable but ultra-catholic Imperial Spain was not acceptable. Unfortunately, neither was becoming a puppet of the French Empire, who had grown too powerful to be stopped by a lone country. And so pacts in the shadows continued, as Africa fell under the colonial empires’ rule...
Holy crap, you know Virginia is evil when Spain and Florida consider them to be too evil. I believe this trope could be used to describe it: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvenEvilHasStandards
Also, just curious but which members of the former Central Alliance are actually strong enough to have a decent amount of power, other than China and the UPNG?
Also, just curious but which members of the former Central Alliance are actually strong enough to have a decent amount of power, other than China and the UPNG?
Puppet is such a strong word, I think vassal is much more fitting
Which countries are actually considered to be in French sphere/Vassal?
Honestly, let’s not even speak about a lone country, I am not even sure a lone continent could defeat the French Empire.
Well, 4 nations in North America fought it and 3 of them had weapons as modern as France (suck it, New Spain) and they still got their clock cleaned.Puppet is such a strong word, I think vassal is much more fitting
Which countries are actually considered to be in French sphere/Vassal?
Honestly, let’s not even speak about a lone country, I am not even sure a lone continent could defeat the French Empire.
Am I seeing a "all-against-France" Alliance in the shadows? Well, glad we have a French Empire who have showed itself magnanimous and standing by its word. Others countries know they should trust France above Russia (seriously after what they had done to China or eastern Europe) California and the UPNG didn't respect pre-war accord with China or both China hated everyone else. And as for Imperial Spain, the country isn't in any state to fight France, any Spanish know it. Let's beat a new coalition, this one doesn't have any common ground. They would betray each other before the first shout.
While unlikely because of diplomatic tension between countries. It remains a possibility that a coalition would form anyways, France has reached a critical point, and if France is allowed to grow any further and not contained, it will become completely unstoppable by the rest of the world and basically become the world hyper power. Pax Francia, forever and ever.
The leadership of most nations should know it, just looking at WW1 and the way France systemically defeated multiple opponents, on multiple fronts, on multiple continents, at the same time should tell them this much.
Anyone that doesn’t wish to live under a Pax Francia could form a coalition with people they find distasteful, afterall, they can still fight out their differences at a later date, however putting off fighting France isn’t to their advantages.
True, the coalition can be born but it will be so weak because of this lack of trust and also because France also have some serious allies.
In Europe, England, Portugal, Westphalia, Bavaria, Ireland are clearly pro-French. A-H can become a true neutral because clearly THE priority for them is the Bear, same with the Scandinavia. Imperial Spain needs to look inside its border, it can't go looking for a fight and certainly not against France who is playing "protective wall" involuntarily for Imperial Spain.
In Africa, it is even worse than in Europe, France basically rule the continent.
Americas, Carolinas is looking South, not West... in fact, what it's happening in Africa with this Ku Klux Klan equivalent is more important for them than the French who have proven their best neighbor... Their ancestors are probably rolling in their graves. California and the UPNG doesn't have the weight to contest France, even if the Grenadians believe the opposite (the wake-up will be bad for them) Brazil is completely isolated and not trusted, worst than Florida because nobody sane will ever trusted them as ally.
Western Asia, the Ottoman have really no interest in risking the wrath of Paris when again their priority is the Bear and the Hell's Gate that was once called Persia.
India, who can attack France there? Oman already have lost too much the first time, they can't think of a second go so soon.
Eastern Asia, the two China are looking for the next round between them, France is NOT their problem. (It is also a chance for this supposed coalition that both China are even more xenophobic than ever.) Japan is resolutely pro-French and that will not change with the presence of California and UPNG on their South and Russia on their North.
So, in clear, the best deterrent to a credible coalition is Russia and timing. Even if Ethiopia and Madagascar were to betray France, it wouldn't upset the balance of power enough to really threaten France and her more secure allies.
In Europe, England, Portugal, Westphalia, Bavaria, Ireland are clearly pro-French. A-H can become a true neutral because clearly THE priority for them is the Bear, same with the Scandinavia. Imperial Spain needs to look inside its border, it can't go looking for a fight and certainly not against France who is playing "protective wall" involuntarily for Imperial Spain.
In Africa, it is even worse than in Europe, France basically rule the continent.
Americas, Carolinas is looking South, not West... in fact, what it's happening in Africa with this Ku Klux Klan equivalent is more important for them than the French who have proven their best neighbor... Their ancestors are probably rolling in their graves. California and the UPNG doesn't have the weight to contest France, even if the Grenadians believe the opposite (the wake-up will be bad for them) Brazil is completely isolated and not trusted, worst than Florida because nobody sane will ever trusted them as ally.
Western Asia, the Ottoman have really no interest in risking the wrath of Paris when again their priority is the Bear and the Hell's Gate that was once called Persia.
India, who can attack France there? Oman already have lost too much the first time, they can't think of a second go so soon.
Eastern Asia, the two China are looking for the next round between them, France is NOT their problem. (It is also a chance for this supposed coalition that both China are even more xenophobic than ever.) Japan is resolutely pro-French and that will not change with the presence of California and UPNG on their South and Russia on their North.
So, in clear, the best deterrent to a credible coalition is Russia and timing. Even if Ethiopia and Madagascar were to betray France, it wouldn't upset the balance of power enough to really threaten France and her more secure allies.
Yep.
California is powerful enough to have its voice heard on the world stage. Denmark has a lot of respect too, though it has of course largely decreased since the Great War.
Puppet is such a strong word, I think vassal is much more fitting
Which countries are actually considered to be in French sphere/Vassal?
Honestly, let’s not even speak about a lone country, I am not even sure a lone continent could defeat the French Empire.
Indeed, indeed.
Without writing the full list, the Golden Republic of the West, Maryland, Westphalia, Aceh...
No, not really. People have seen that while non-French people living under French law and customs is not all sunshine and joy, it beats the massive economic difficulties of Central Europe and the iron fist of Russia.
And frankly, Spain is not that much of a threat. Madrid can muster some armies, but their chances to pass the Pyrennées are rather slim, even with Paris occupied on a multi-front war. In fact, it's a big problem right now for any potential opponent of France that they haven't much of a chance to achieve a decapitating surprise before war is declared: Paris, Pondicherry and Québec are out of the range of most nations and as such the only possibility is an offensive into the lands France has just annexed...which naturally favours the armies and the fleets of Empress Charlotte.
No, a "all-against-Russia" alliance is far more likely to erupt. Not because the chances of victory are particularly good, but because life in the Russian Empire is not meeting any definition of bearable the non-Russians have learned...
The only problem is that nation have most urgent problem would the Chuan faction ally with Russian against French, it seems really unlikely Russians is surely the synonym of evil for them, Japan consider France as their benefactors, the Spanish Empress take advice from the French Empress and relation are cordial enough to reach agreements, also Spain internal situation is really troublesome,they don't need to add a war against France, so the coalition will lack members.
For now, people are more worried about Russian expansion, a coalition against them is most likely and even here, you still have many problems.
I think that a proxy war would also be likely, maybe other powers will try to bleed french force, maybe earlier terrorism, France and Russia are really powerfull and a war would be dangerous but nation need to limit their expansion if they want to avoid a hegemon, fund terrorist group could make a lot of damage especially with all the territories annexed, and if the nation is bleed enough (at least in the investigator mind) then they will launch the war, or weaken them enough to them expand in peace when France and Russia are busy crushing rebels.
Yeah at this point of time to beat France and co (vassals states : Golden Republic, Maryland, Delaware, Westphalia, Switzerland, Aceh, and their close allies Bengal, Ireland, England, Portugal and Chile)
You pretty much need an alliance of every other nation of the globe with mandatory Spain (to contest Africa and Europe), Russia (to contest Europe and the Pacific) and Chuan China (to contest India) and you pretty much need every nation of America and Europe to have a chance to survive on their respective theater before renforts from Russia or China (the 2 with the manpower to contest France) arrives.
In opposition to contest Russia if France is neutral you just need to create a large enough front to overcame Russia localy until they crack and spawn rebels. China, A-H and Poland are already all to try it again. If they convince Sweden (for Finland and Karelia), Ottoman (Balkans, Caucasus and Persia), Oman (Persian Gulf), California (Hawaii, northern Pacifics island and Maybe Alaska) and Japan (Hokkaido, Kourils, Sakhaline and Northern Korea), they could win (but I'm pretty sure they would be backstab if Russia give indivually some of them to their demand).
For the assasination it could potentially work against Russia (it seems they isn't many Romanov so if they are all killed a civil war is certain) but won't work against France since now they also count daughters in the succession (After all they were 3 daughters of Louis XVI with children so they should be at least 10 French Bourbons now with a claim to the throne before coming back to Spain).
You pretty much need an alliance of every other nation of the globe with mandatory Spain (to contest Africa and Europe), Russia (to contest Europe and the Pacific) and Chuan China (to contest India) and you pretty much need every nation of America and Europe to have a chance to survive on their respective theater before renforts from Russia or China (the 2 with the manpower to contest France) arrives.
In opposition to contest Russia if France is neutral you just need to create a large enough front to overcame Russia localy until they crack and spawn rebels. China, A-H and Poland are already all to try it again. If they convince Sweden (for Finland and Karelia), Ottoman (Balkans, Caucasus and Persia), Oman (Persian Gulf), California (Hawaii, northern Pacifics island and Maybe Alaska) and Japan (Hokkaido, Kourils, Sakhaline and Northern Korea), they could win (but I'm pretty sure they would be backstab if Russia give indivually some of them to their demand).
For the assasination it could potentially work against Russia (it seems they isn't many Romanov so if they are all killed a civil war is certain) but won't work against France since now they also count daughters in the succession (After all they were 3 daughters of Louis XVI with children so they should be at least 10 French Bourbons now with a claim to the throne before coming back to Spain).
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