In His Own Right

[LacheyS]

Finally an update i can find something to comment on !
The other one's were quite interesting, too but couldn't really find anything to comment about.


I think Germany would ask for - and recieve - 2 additional clauses to this agreement (3:1 limitation is after all quite a concession, especially with Britain not knowing that Germany can't affort a prolonged naval race).

1. Britain also surrenders her right of access to the Baltic Sea should Germany declare war on Russia in reaction to a Russian declararation of war on either:
- Finland
- Poland - Lithuania
- Austro - Hungaria
- The Ottoman Empire

2. Germany is permitted to expand her fleet beyond the 3:1 limit, should that be neccessary to maintain a 50% superiority over Russia (the exact percentage would be negotiable, of course).

That actually sounds quite workable. With the Kaiser now out of the way, I think it is also sustainable. Thanks again, Neroon.

 

[LacheyS]

NEXT POST

NEXT POST: Election 1908

 

[SteveW]

If it's 1908, it's not too late to save Eulenburg, who was a moderating influence on the Kaiser. In OTL he was blackmailed into self-imposed exile by a journlalist named Harden who had evidence that he was a homosexual. Previously, Eulenburg had been very, very close to the Kaiser.

 

[LacheyS]

Election 1908

Results for the 1908 vote:

Turnout rate was 62.3%

The new House of Representatives had 218 Republicans, 190 Democrats and 24 Socialists. The states where the Socialist Party took more than 10% of eligible ballots were: California, Florida, Montana, Nevada, Oklahoma and Washington.

Republican States (Margin Greater than 10%)
California, Connecticut, Delaware, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York
Nth Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Is., Sth Dakota, Utah,
Vermont, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming

Republican States (Margin between 5% and 10%)
Montana 9.47%, Missouri 6.16%, Indiana 5.67%, Maryland 5.67%

Republican States (Margin less than 5%)
Kentucky 3.89%, Colorado 3.78%, Nebraska 3.52%, Nevada 3.43%, Oklahoma 2.18%

Democrat States (Margin less than 5%)
North Carolina 1.87%, Tennessee 0.53%

Democrat States (Margin greater than 10%)
Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Sth Carolina, Texas, Virginia.

Overall, the total vote was Roosevelt 53.37%, Johnson 40.60% and Debs 5.83%

President Roosevelt and Vice President Shaw will begin their term on 4 March, 1909.

 

[LacheyS]

If it's 1908, it's not too late to save Eulenburg, who was a moderating influence on the Kaiser. In OTL he was blackmailed into self-imposed exile by a journlalist named Harden who had evidence that he was a homosexual. Previously, Eulenburg had been very, very close to the Kaiser.

Eulenberg was saved...if you read a few pages back, he managed to escape ostracism. And Eulenberg will be called upon to help restore the Kaiser to sanity.

 

[SteveW]

Eulenberg was saved...if you read a few pages back, he managed to escape ostracism. And Eulenberg will be called upon to help restore the Kaiser to sanity.

Ever so sorry, I somehow missed that page! This TL is superb, the direction is fantastic.

 

[LacheyS]

Ever so sorry, I somehow missed that page! This TL is superb, the direction is fantastic.

Ta muchly. I'm a real sucker for praise.

I am hoping that eventually the Kaiser and Eulenberg will skip off to Norway and live happily ever after, trying real hard to make babies and repeatedly failing, but never getting discouraged in their efforts. But, alas, the course of true love never runs smooth.

 

[G.Bone]

uh....okay...\

Wilhelm II had avoided appointing strong political leaders, not wanting anyone who could interfere with his rule. With the fall of von Bulow, it became clear that another bureaucrat could not exercise the strength necessary to keep the Empire on course. However, the mind of the Kaiser was insufficiently strong for the test as well. With that fact before them, the Reichstag appointed his son, Crown Prince Wilhelm of Germany and Prussia, as Regent.

This is again, interesting, because I'm making a "kinder Wilhelm II" TL...

 

[DMA]

But Bismarck was dead well before the POD. I think, however, that Wilhelm II was certifiable. If not for Bismarck's strong foundations, the Kaiser would have killed Germany long before World War I.

Oh I was thinking Bismarck may have left some legacy behind just before he was forced to resign. So he gets some obscure law through the Reichstag that's either similar to the UK's Act of Ascension, or if that's too obvious, then maybe some tinkering over appointing a Regent...

 

[LacheyS]

uh....okay...\



This is again, interesting, because I'm making a "kinder Wilhelm II" TL...

What do you make of speculation that the Kaiser had a mental incapacity due to damage to the brain during his gestation/birth?

 

[LacheyS]

Oh I was thinking Bismarck may have left some legacy behind just before he was forced to resign. So he gets some obscure law through the Reichstag that's either similar to the UK's Act of Ascension, or if that's too obvious, then maybe some tinkering over appointing a Regent...

I honestly wish that he had, but I don't see a way to insert it into this timeline. It wouldn't happen with a POD post-Bismarck. What I am thinking at this stage is that the Reichstag will become more active and come into conflict with the Bundesrat over electoral reform and the budget (both were major issues in OTL on which the Reichstag surrendered). However, it will depend on von Bulow (von Holstein may have tutored the Chancellor; but, alas, he is soon to die).

 

[LacheyS]

Seeking Advice

Hey, all.

This timeline has four more posts to reach the end of 1908 (unless you come up with something I haven't thought of that needs to be inserted). Three you will probably expect: the Anglo-German Naval Treaty, the return of Eulenberg and the Balkan peace talks. One, however, will be a major, major surprise and will decide the future of a number of the characters and countries. I want to leave 1908 with a BANG. A cliffhanger, if you will.

My question is this: should I round up this timeline as Part One at the end of 1908, transfer a modified version to Timelines and start work afresh on Part Two from 1909, or press on and do another four years? I just think that this Timeline, at 18 pages, is starting to get a bit long, and I am having trouble referencing various parts of it as required?

 

[G.Bone]

In reply to the initial post above, yes. Then it could be so great!

What do you make of speculation that the Kaiser had a mental incapacity due to damage to the brain during his gestation/birth?

I don't really have the resources to pass judgement; all that I do have is wikipedia, which is, most unfortuneately, is down at the moment.

Just curious - would you be interested in helping me write the TL that I have mentioned before? PM me if interested.

 

[DMA]

I honestly wish that he had, but I don't see a way to insert it into this timeline. It wouldn't happen with a POD post-Bismarck. What I am thinking at this stage is that the Reichstag will become more active and come into conflict with the Bundesrat over electoral reform and the budget (both were major issues in OTL on which the Reichstag surrendered). However, it will depend on von Bulow (von Holstein may have tutored the Chancellor; but, alas, he is soon to die).

Well even if we do leave any Bismarck pre-POD out of it, there's still the question of a Regent being appointed. And that doesn't need Bismarck, although by his political cunning it would be easier to do. Afterall, it's not as if such an act isn't without precidence in Germany/Prussia as Wilhelm I was Regent to Friedrich Wilhelm IV for 3 years. Similarly Wilhelm I's replacement, Friedrich III, was sick with cancer for his brief 3 month reign, which basically meant once more the country was ruled by a Regent, albeit a defacto one in the form of, ironically, Wilhelm II.

So it wouldn't be inconceivable for the Reichstag, considering Wilhelm II mental condition, to appoint a Regent whilst the Kaiser is having his incapacity seen to by his medical physicians. And as I've pointed out, there is legal precedence for the Reichstag to order such a thing.

Anyway, it was just a thought. Importantly, though, it would be more palatable to a majority of members of the Reichstag than actually replacing Wilhelm II with someone else.

 

[LacheyS]

Well even if we do leave any Bismarck pre-POD out of it, there's still the question of a Regent being appointed. And that doesn't need Bismarck, although by his political cunning it would be easier to do. Afterall, it's not as if such an act isn't without precidence in Germany/Prussia as Wilhelm I was Regent to Friedrich Wilhelm IV for 3 years. Similarly Wilhelm I's replacement, Friedrich III, was sick with cancer for his brief 3 month reign, which basically meant once more the country was ruled by a Regent, albeit a defacto one in the form of, ironically, Wilhelm II.

So it wouldn't be inconceivable for the Reichstag, considering Wilhelm II mental condition, to appoint a Regent whilst the Kaiser is having his incapacity seen to by his medical physicians. And as I've pointed out, there is legal precedence for the Reichstag to order such a thing.

Anyway, it was just a thought. Importantly, though, it would be more palatable to a majority of members of the Reichstag than actually replacing Wilhelm II with someone else.

David, I think there's been a misunderstanding. I agreed with your initial post on the subject also immediately and altered the text in the original post (it could still be edited) to get Wilhelm's son appointed to the role of Regent. I thought you had noticed, but it appears that you didn't. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I thought you were suggesting that Bismarck could have influenced the Reichstag to do it, and was trying to point out to you that he was dead. Having re-read the entire conversation, I now get that you didn't see my amendments. (At least, I think that's what happened ) Anyway, post back if I am crazy and deluded. No, not in general, just regards this timeline.

 

[LacheyS]

The Anglo-German Naval Treaty

The aging von Holstein made his way to London as the co-sponsor for the Balkan peace talks, but before this got underway, he had instructions from the Chancellor to fulfill. He thus arrived a week ahead of schedule and was immediately taken to the Foreign Ministry at his own request. The rapport he had established with Edward Grey at his meeting in August was clear and, in addition, Holstein had cabled ahead to advise Grey that he was the bearer of good tidings.

The German Empire was prepared to grant the British request for the 3:1 ratio, that is, Germany's navy would retain tonnage equivalent only to one third that of the Royal Navy. In return, the Royal Navy would not be permitted to access the Baltic Sea without German consent. To do so would constitute an act of war against Germany. However, the German minister had two stipulations. Firstly, Germany was insistent that she be allowed to retain a 2:1 ratio in relation to the Russian Imperial Fleet. He made quite clear to the British Foreign Secretary that, if he wanted to contain Germany, he would need to ensure that his ally in the east was more strictly contained.

He would also insist that Britain guarantee the independence of Finland and Poland-Lithuania and would oppose any Russian attempts to reclaim the territory. The German minister stated that, as Britain's arrangement with Russia were defensive, joining Germany in guaranteeing the defence of the two newest European states would not violate the terms of that arrangement. In whatever case, whoever shot first would be the "bad guy" and would be opposed by Britain, who would automatically become the "good guy". Isn't that what Britain wanted - preservation of the status quo? Finally, the treaty would be reviewed every ten years to ensure that it fitted with the needs of the two empires.

It was with the signing of that treaty that Germany ceased concerning itself with its western borders. It had made peace with France and with Britain. Her eastern border was now protected by satellite states, which, if attacked, would bring Britain to her side. It made the 1921 review of Alsace-Lorraine's status much more likely to favour France, which strengthed that bond. Strangely, the only country with whom Germany now had outstanding issues was her ally - Austria-Hungary. The long dream of the unified German people began to become a matter of confidential discussions and mutterings in the halls of power in Berlin.

 

[LacheyS]

The Return of Eulenberg

The 61-year-old Philipp, Prince of Eulenberg-Hertefeld, had returned from his summer residence in Konigsberg as soon as he heard of the Kaiser's "illness", arriving on 18 November, 1908. He entered the Stadtschloss and immediately ordered that a car be prepared to take he and the Kaiser to Weimar. He knew his friend.

He would read his some of his poems, perhaps play some of his songs for him on the piano, maybe even a picnic in the wood at Buchenwald. Some relaxation was all that required for the Kaiser to return to his "normal frame of mind". In this time away from their wives, he would encourage the Emperor to commence enjoying the advantages that his life had provided rather than working himself into an early grave, allow himself to explore his "individuality", and ask him to cease "overestimating things". He would remind him that he was more than a King; he was a man.

The Prince knew what that was. Already, he had begun to have periods of disorientation and had even had a fall. He knew that his body was beginning its slow decline to the grave. He would remind the Kaiser that he was just over a decade behind. He had been responding to duty and responsibility for so long that he knew little else. Perhaps, as he approached fifty, it was time to enjoy the perks of office and cease to ponder the responsibilities. He had ruled long enough; maybe it was time for him to just reign and allow those who insisted they could do better worry about things.

The two men left for Weimar the following day and remained incommunicado for the next seven months. During that time, they also enjoyed a six-week cruise on the Meteor up the coast of Norway.

 

[DMA]

David, I think there's been a misunderstanding. I agreed with your initial post on the subject also immediately and altered the text in the original post (it could still be edited) to get Wilhelm's son appointed to the role of Regent. I thought you had noticed, but it appears that you didn't. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

Oh that's cool. I did miss the edit you made Thanks for letting me know.

I thought you were suggesting that Bismarck could have influenced the Reichstag to do it, and was trying to point out to you that he was dead. Having re-read the entire conversation, I now get that you didn't see my amendments. (At least, I think that's what happened ) Anyway, post back if I am crazy and deluded. No, not in general, just regards this timeline.

No you're not crazy. I'm just getting old...

 

[LacheyS]

No you're not crazy. I'm just getting old...

You would have to be younger than me! I'm turning 35 this year and I am beginning to notice all the niggles that will, by the time I'm 50, turn into fully-fledged complaints. And, in the words of Aunty Pauline, I don't like it.

 

[DMA]

You would have to be younger than me! I'm turning 35 this year and I am beginning to notice all the niggles that will, by the time I'm 50, turn into fully-fledged complaints. And, in the words of Aunty Pauline, I don't like it.

I'm 40

Those niggles are nothing in comparison to what happens when you turn 40 ...