Can they hold the Exarchate of Africa because of the roman identity, or would it eventually break free from the empire?
Interesting, thanks for your reply. And eventually how would be the language background? Everybody would still speaking african romance, or would it be spoken only in the countryside while the cities on the coast would speak greek? because there is direct communication with greek-speaking Sicily.Ok let's see
Khalid dies on his march to the Syrian desert this via the march of mutiny or something as simple as a sand strorm not emerging on suwa, and not lining up with one southern arab army leading to the Roman cities been more secure do to no reinforcement forcing a retreat by and buying the Romans more time .
2)at ainadayn the byzantines trap work out and Khalid is trapped or killed the battle could go any way still since the Muslims outnumbered the Romans but the lost of the commander would have impacts on future battles or might cause a defeat here
3) when Khalid leaves to the eagle pass thomas sallied out with a weakened force he destroys it and lifts the siege of Damascus , or heraclius himself goes to reinforce the city
4) theodore waits longer or makes a gamble to cross the river in the south as he moved his army to the north and attack the Muslims near pella
in the olt it was a close call as theodore had managed to push them all the way back to the camp even with the Muslims preparing in both cases i have presented it would be a surprise and based on how the Muslims nearly lost it would have been a defeat .
5) In the siege of emessa harabee manages to destroy thr arab Force before Khalid cavarly arrives and then repulses and manges to lift the siege .
6) The Romans win at yarmourk
Any of these probably put a temporary or definitive halt to the Muslims if the Roman empire is not gutted by the Muslims it's likely an exchart rebellion would be crushed i mean gregory in 640s moved this capital away from the coast in the fear of a roman counter attack and seeing how the Romans here have not lost egypt the levant and syria ( and yet in 695 manged to reconquer carthage) i find it unlikely that the exchart would be so bold as to attempt anything.
African romance would still be the prevelent even more if the Byzantines are kicked out in a civil war by an exchart in say the 8th century or since the Byzantines have bought them Time the Berbers kingdoms could consolidate to the point that they outright conquer África.Interesting, thanks for your reply. And eventually how would be the language background? Everybody would still speaking african romance, or would it be spoken only in the countryside while the cities on the coast would speak greek? because there is direct communication with greek-speaking Sicily.
My bets are on also altava or aures i think the Romans would attempt a reconquest but we'll depends on how they go but i agree with the coastal holdouts propositionImmediately, yes. Long term, the Berbers are gaining strength, and at some point a strong local King will probably kick the Romans out. Rome ITTL will be constantly warring with the Arabs, Lombards, and Slavs, so they'll be too distracted to stop it, most likely.
So likely path is a a century or so more of gradually diminishing Roman control, followed by the end of the Exarchate as (christian) berbers assert control. Maybe in a pattern similar to Roman Italy, with some longer lasting roman holdouts in the coast and around modern day Tunis.
Yeah, Romance language speaking christian Berbers, who will be much more connected to the rest of Christendem. North Africa would probably be considered to be a part of Europe culturally ITTL.My bets are on also altava or aures i think the Romans would attempt a reconquest but we'll depends on how they go but i agree with the coastal holdouts proposition
Also since islam was not a thing in north africa it's most likely that the Berberes would be romano berbers hence the survival of african romance .
The Berbers are gaining strength, but as fellow Christians, what are the chances of the Romans incorporating them and seeing them expand outwards like what happened with the Caliphate? How far had Christianity penetrated at that point and which branch?Immediately, yes. Long term, the Berbers are gaining strength, and at some point a strong local King will probably kick the Romans out. Rome ITTL will be constantly warring with the Arabs, Lombards, and Slavs, so they'll be too distracted to stop it, most likely.
So likely path is a a century or so more of gradually diminishing Roman control, followed by the end of the Exarchate as (christian) berbers assert control. Maybe in a pattern similar to Roman Italy, with some longer lasting roman holdouts in the coast and around modern day Tunis.
The Romans did not accomplish this with fellow Christians in Italy, Spain, and the Balkans. Why would it be different in North Africa?The Berbers are gaining strength, but as fellow Christians, what are the chances of the Romans incorporating them and seeing them expand outwards like what happened with the Caliphate? How far had Christianity penetrated at that point and which branch?
Because they had close calls the mauro roman kingdom manged and others manged to inflict significant looses that took the Byzantines bug planing and campaings the Berber kingdoms and tribes also did a lot of the Resistance against the caliphate resisting them for about some decades .To be honest I still don't see where this popular idea that the Berbers were particularly strong in this period comes from, OTL they failed to remove the Byzantines in their 165 years of stay, they failed to repel the Arab invasion after the Byzantines were removed, they failed to remove the Umayyad forces from Tunisia and Eastern Algeria during their rebellion(which is, maybe coincidentally, close to the territory of the Byzantine Exarchate of Africa) and after a brief control by Kharijite Berbers again failed to repel the Abbassid reconquest, only centuries later, when the region was becoming a melting pot and increasingly Arabized did more Berber dynasties(as opposed to Berber-supported dynasties of Eastern origin) hold unto the Exarchate's territories for longer.
All in all I don't see why it would be a natural conclusion that the Berbers from Western and inner Algeria would remove the Byzantines from power when the latter still hold control in Sardinia, Sicily, Libya and Egypt.
It can happen but it's not the natural conclusion as things were not headed that way with the balkanization of the larger Mauro-Roman kingdom in the late 6th century, if the Byzantines could repel the Arabs for generations when the Arabs were sieging down their capital, seized regions that had maybe up to 10 million people that no longer provided resources to the Byzantine and were clearly strongly ascendant, why would Berbers end up taking over the Byzantine territories while they themselves were divided and incapable to deprive so many resources and strike at the core of the Byzantine resource bases compared to the Arabs?
Haspelmath & Tadmor 2009, p. 195 attest that berber languages have latin borrowing Northwest African Romance and that the region was mostly Berber languages and variations of african romanceAbout African Romance, does anyone have any kind of evidence about the border of the language? Surely we could have at least some place names derived from late Latin roots that indicate generally the border of the linguistic area? Similar data from Switzerland(hardly a super well attested region) allows us to even delineate a chronology of the Germanization of the population there.
Yeah unless the exchart does like the governor of africa which gave the province almost for.free to the vandals same can occur with the Berbers so I agree with the costal holdouts unless a succession crisis occurs in the Byzantines empireAlmost certainly I believe, since the ERE's position in the Mediterranean would be much stronger, and they'd be able to ferry troops into Carthage without much of a hassle whenever things get bad there.
I strongly disagree on the African origin v-b allophones in Spanish and indeed the video itself mentions the problems, for example some Roman-era citations maybe support it being present in some parts of Hispania(if they are not puns themselves) but the fact that the betacism is not present everywhere in Iberia and the fact that this secondary migration of African Romance really doesn't seem to have been 1. prevalent and 2. it clearly would have been reduced by the incoming northward Reconquista-related linguistic expansions.Haspelmath & Tadmor 2009, p. 195 attest that berber languages have latin borrowing Northwest African Romance and that the region was mostly Berber languages and variations of african romance
And this video argued that the african romance was still prominent so much so when the arabs invasion came african romance moved to the north with them it is from african romance where we get things like the similarities in sounds from v and b
So african romance must have been still popular or big or important for it to influence spanish
oh yeah i agree there is problem with the theory but the v-b is not the only one here its a good read on the arguments on how possibly it influenced https://www.persee.fr/doc/mom_0184-1785_2012_act_49_1_3226I strongly disagree on the African origin v-b allophones in Spanish and indeed the video itself mentions the problems, for example some Roman-era citations maybe support it being present in some parts of Hispania(if they are not puns themselves) but the fact that the betacism is not present everywhere in Iberia and the fact that this secondary migration of African Romance really doesn't seem to have been 1. prevalent and 2. it clearly would have been reduced by the incoming northward Reconquista-related linguistic expansions.
Talking about dialects more specifically, betacism is present in some Catalan dialects, but not in Valencian or Balearic, IE the ones that were in territories under the shortest Arab rule and betacism is stronger in Aragonese and Asturleonese.
So I don't think any of this necessarily supports the idea African Romance was prevalent, I think toponymic evidence is necessary.