In a late CP victory scenario, what is the international reputation/status of France by the 90s?

Like, say after World War 1, France loses it's status as a great power. By the time of the 90s, how relevant is the French language? How is Paris represented/imagine by mass media? What become the new stereotypes of France. Is it even still relevant? As it seems quite possible, that France could end up like Spain, in that it is no longer relevant in global affairs since a CP victory could have the same effects on France, that the Napoleonic wars had on Spain. At least, this is what I hear.

What do you guys think would happen to France's reputation and status after a late CP victory in WW1?
 
That's 80 years. How could you possibly simulate that without more knowledge? Maybe you'll have hearty French workers if they go Communist or something.
 
I don't see France losing great power status on CP victory scenario even if France fights very terrible way. Germany hasn't power capture its colonies. Another thing is if there is Second Great War. Then France might lost all its colonies. And even then I have difficult to see France losing its great power status. Status of French language depends much about what happens after CP victory but French might be still quiet important language globally.

But details are difficult to estimate without knowing how CP victory happen and what happen afterwards.
 
That's 80 years. How could you possibly simulate that without more knowledge? Maybe you'll have hearty French workers if they go Communist or something.
Maybe France goes through a civil war between socialists and fascists during the 20s. Who ever wins, I'll let you guys decide but my money's on the fascists, rules France for about some decades until the dictatorships ends Franco style. During this time, France pretty much looks inward the entire time, with nobody really bothering with it. French emigrate in numbers higher than OTL due to the poor conditions of France. It's topped with a large debt and has to pay for the war. No Matter what happens, France is too weak to fight against Germany again, so if there is a second world war, France isn't in it.
 
I don't see France losing great power status on CP victory scenario even if France fights very terrible way. Germany hasn't power capture its colonies. Another thing is if there is Second Great War. Then France might lost all its colonies. And even then I have difficult to see France losing its great power status. Status of French language depends much about what happens after CP victory but French might be still quiet important language globally.

But details are difficult to estimate without knowing how CP victory happen and what happen afterwards.
I don't think Germany will have to capture France's colonies, they'll probably just leave France's control, once the Metropole is down.
 

Insider

Banned
Unless the French play their hands bad enough to have Kaiserliche troops frolic on the streets of Paris, it means that Most of the French Colonial empire stays French. Some african colonies could be transfered to Germany (or Austria Hungary... or even Ottomans by virtue of "not being Germany"). Indochina could get freedom, if their envoys get the German ear, as a publicity stunt.
 
Maybe France goes through a civil war between socialists and fascists during the 20s. Who ever wins, I'll let you guys decide but my money's on the fascists, rules France for about some decades until the dictatorships ends Franco style. During this time, France pretty much looks inward the entire time, with nobody really bothering with it. French emigrate in numbers higher than OTL due to the poor conditions of France. It's topped with a large debt and has to pay for the war. No Matter what happens, France is too weak to fight against Germany again, so if there is a second world war, France isn't in it.


I can't see a victorious Germany tolerating a Communist government in France - or indeed anywhere on her borders. If the Reds looked like winning, I'd expect German intervention.
 
I can't see a victorious Germany tolerating a Communist government in France - or indeed anywhere on her borders. If the Reds looked like winning, I'd expect German intervention.

Depend on her status after the war; after a late war victory, the German reich can be a little too involved in his own problem (and i include the disaster that the Ottoman and A-H empire will be in the scenario) to be in any shape or just have the will to intervene
 
I can't see a victorious Germany tolerating a Communist government in France - or indeed anywhere on her borders. If the Reds looked like winning, I'd expect German intervention.

This is, of course, how the German Revolution of 1919 begins...
 
I assume it would be bloodier than OTL
If begins... And even if there is some revolution attempt I don't see that being any more succesful than in OTL.

So it overthrows the kaisee, and ushers in a German republic untainted by Versailles?cool.
 
I assume it would be bloodier than OTL


So it overthrows the kaisee, and ushers in a German republic untainted by Versailles?cool.


Who exactly does this?

If the Spartakists try anything, they'll get stomped even quicker than OTL. And Ebert and co aren't even remotely likely to.
 
Who exactly does this?

If the Spartakists try anything, they'll get stomped even quicker than OTL. And Ebert and co aren't even remotely likely to.

Workers who had their rations cut again and are opposed to the intervention in Russia are a good example, no?

Or are we assuming Ebert would go along with a German occupation of Moscow?
 
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Workers who had their rations cut again and are opposed to the intervention in Russia are a good example, no?

Or are we assuming Ebert would go along with a German occupation of Moscow?


I thought we were discussing a civil war in France (presumably a France under German occupation if the CP have won).

But in any case what could Ebert do? OTL he only came to office because Germany faced imminent defeat. TTL it doesn't, so he's still just a Reichstag deputy. And anyway how much would he really object? In 1918 the Social Democrats abstained from voting on the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, and most of them voted for the Treaty of Bucharest. That doesn't sound as if they'll give the government much trouble.
 
What do you guys think would happen to France's reputation and status after a late CP victory in WW1?

Mitteleuropas prime producer of good wine and cheese, a globally popular tourist destination and generally a good place to retire to because of the clearn air and pristine nature due to the lack of heavy industry after the Germans took away all their iron and coal mines.
 

Perkeo

Banned
Mitteleuropas prime producer of good wine and cheese, a globally popular tourist destination and generally a good place to retire to because of the clearn air and pristine nature due to the lack of heavy industry after the Germans took away all their iron and coal mines.
Or the European centre of high tec industry since the lack of raw materials made them invest in technology...

Germany cannot permanently take out France, nor can France permanently take out Germany. Both demonstrated that in history and will do so in alternate history as well.
 
Or the European centre of high tec industry since the lack of raw materials made them invest in technology...

Germany cannot permanently take out France, nor can France permanently take out Germany. Both demonstrated that in history and will do so in alternate history as well.

Certainly not with that attitude. You have to beat it, occupy it for a long time, limit military industry and limit development through outright bans, form the political system according to your vision and there you go.

Even if Germany gives up its occupation because somehow there's a partisan war which manages to actually do someting unlike anywhere else France would still be permanently crippled because of how fast technology is advancing nowadays. The power difference becomes only larger.
 
Germany was hungry even after the blockade was lifted in 1918 and 1919...

As was most of Europe. Germany still never reached the low point of the Turnip Winter post-war. A bit hard to reconcile that with your (and lukedalton`s) pet scenario of a massive socialist uprising that brings down the German Empire after a victory in WWI. Either way, didn`t you up until recently claim that Germany would follow the exact path of Imperial Japan after a CP victory? What happened to change your mind?
 
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