My thread on alternate military procurements gave me the idea for this thread. Starting after the end of WWII, you can do anything you think would improve the military of your birth country or the country you are living in currently.
Improve your Country's Military
- Thread starter Have Blue-117
- Start date
NothingNow
Banned
Yep. Instead keep CALF and JAST separate projects, maybe sharing a few common components, like onboard sensors.
Also, not turning the Littoral Combat Ship program into a massive joke, and letting the Perry-class fall into such a bad shape. Something like a MEKO 200 in size would be a decent choice, and having one hull, with multiple variants (using STANFLEX for mission specific kit would be a good idea here) would keep development costs under control.
Producing an amphibious development of the Convair XP5Y as an ASW bird would also be a good idea, given the massive advantage it'd have over landplanes operationally. A demilitarized SAR version could take the place of OTL's HC-130H, and maybe be developed into a replacement for the HU-16 and HC-123s when the time came.
It'd also make for a decent water-bomber.
Australia has had a lot of good stuff, not much I'd really change, but the devil is in the details.
RAN;
Avoid the whole ASW carrier decision and by Skyhawks in 1959 rather than 1963.
Buy HMS Hermes in the late 60s.
Buy the Australian designed destroyer rather than OHP FFG.
RAAF;
Red Tops and AS30 for Mirages
Pick up ex USN EC121 in 1965
Get tankers in the 60s
Upgrade and keep Bloodhound SAMs in the late 60s
Go through with big helicopter buy in 1971 including AH1G
Army;
Buy more Saladin, Saracen, Ferret armoured scout cars.
Upgrade Centurions with diesel engines and 105 mm guns before Vietnam deployment
Buy more M198 howitzers.
RAN;
Avoid the whole ASW carrier decision and by Skyhawks in 1959 rather than 1963.
Buy HMS Hermes in the late 60s.
Buy the Australian designed destroyer rather than OHP FFG.
RAAF;
Red Tops and AS30 for Mirages
Pick up ex USN EC121 in 1965
Get tankers in the 60s
Upgrade and keep Bloodhound SAMs in the late 60s
Go through with big helicopter buy in 1971 including AH1G
Army;
Buy more Saladin, Saracen, Ferret armoured scout cars.
Upgrade Centurions with diesel engines and 105 mm guns before Vietnam deployment
Buy more M198 howitzers.
Convince the government not to cut military spending so much after the war. And take the Swedih offer to replace the whole air wing of Mig-21`s with the Saab JAS 39 Gripen. And replace the tank fleet entirely with the Degman. Or buy a few Leopard 2 A4`s instead. 
I don't know a lot about this kind of thing, but I would have liked NZ to adopt cheaper medium/long range offshore patrol vessels earlier - in the 1980s, when we obtained the EEZ.
Something that is cheaper to run than the frigates and more useful in protecting the EEZ than an expensive multi role frigate.
Ideally though we would do both - 3 ANZAC frigates and at least 3 patrol vessels.
Well, as long as we stay in the East Block (along with the Czechs), I can't see much improvement over OTL. Moscow had its fingers and nose in far too many aspects of Cold War era Czechoslovakia's armed forces.
If, by some chance, we stay with the West, a lot will depend on the alternate developments of our machine and engineering industries.
I can see a lot more of Czechoslovakia's aviation industry surviving, even if one or two companies go bust or are transformed over time (as happened in OTL). But it would definitely profit from not being slashed by the Soviets out of fear and jealousy. There might be some manufacturing of small as well as large airliner types until at least the 1970s. We definitely might get a more varied jetplane portfolio, not just something on the level of OTL Albatroses. Maybe something at least as sophisticated as Yugoslavia's Orao was, if not even more so...
And unlike in OTL, if a Polish helicopter industry was established, it would most probably be an offshoot of Czechoslovakia's helicopter industry, not the Soviet one. Speaking of Czechoslovak helicopters - there'd at least be one past the 1950s, unlike in OTL, where it went stillborn due to Soviet political and economic restrictions ! (This was the last heli we ever made. Shame it had no follow ups, we were doing great. ) I can't even imagine what would have happened if domestic helicopter manufacturing was allowed to evolve further, past its artificial demise in the late 1950s. While it wouldn't be a very large industry, it could certainly produce a few dozen memorable and globally succesful models over the decades.
As far as armoured vehicles are concerned, I think there would be some parallels to OTL development programmes, particularly the cooperation with the Poles - like the one that occured in the 60s and 70s for the SKOT APC family, etc. Without the Soviets influencing the car park of our military, I am mostly in the dark about how domestic types of tanks, jeeps and self-propelled artillery would look like. Notably, since none of the post-WWII tanks were fully native in design, I really do wonder what the ATL non-East Block Czechoslovak tanks would look like and what design decisions and quirks they'd have. For jeeps, perhaps an evolution of the military version of the Škoda Tudor. Still, it's hard to tell whether we'd get Czechoslovak Landrovers by the mid-50s. I am totally unsure what route Czechoslovak self-propelled artillery would take. Would they eventually switch to wheeled SPAs, as in OTL, or would they stick to tracked designs ?
Small arms manufacturing will probably not be too different from OTL. However, some specialized types weapons that we didn't or couldn't develop in OTL - sniper rifles, rocket launchers, grenade launchers - might make an appearance in the ATL domestic firearms industry.
One could only guess what the organization of a non-EB Czechoslovak military would be. I think it would obviously try to stick to pre-WWII traditions, especially at first. What sort of structural transformations it could undergo in the following decades is entirely guesswork, so I'll refrain from any specific assesments. Given that Czechoslovakia would probably be a buffer zone state, the military would stay pretty big until the end of the Cold War and the country itself would be neutral like Finland or Austria. Come to think of it, Austria might end up joining NATO, given how it wouldn't directly border the EB in the ATL.
If you want to hear my opinion on OTL post-1993 Slovakia : The problems during Mečiar's era, while kind of solvable, don't matter much in the long run. However, the first and second Dzurinda government should have tried to start modernizing some of the equipment in addition to just decomissioning the old unneeded one. The big problem over the last decade was that the replacing of old tech by new one came a bit too late. Though it is partly understandable due to our economy, for years, we've had the least modernization and replacing of old equipment out of the four Visegrad countries. Ergo, I'd say : By 2008-2010, develop a domestic small arms upgrade programme with the Czech Republic or internally, modernize the tank fleet and keep it small, replace at least half of the old transport plane fleet, replace the Mi-2s for the multirole variant of the Polish PZL Sokol, decomission the Mi-24 earlier and buy a half a dozen of smaller attack choppers, replace at least half of the combat Albatroses for Czech ALCAs or British Hawks, create a framework for replacing the MiG 29s with Gripens, Hornets or MiG 35s by the mid-2010s. (Unlike now, when our fighter capability might experience problems with replacements by 2020.) As for how APCs, light all-terrain vehicles, SPAs and Mi-17s are to be treated in the ATL 2000s - there doesn't need to be much change in the way they were modernized during the OTL decade.
If, by some chance, we stay with the West, a lot will depend on the alternate developments of our machine and engineering industries.
I can see a lot more of Czechoslovakia's aviation industry surviving, even if one or two companies go bust or are transformed over time (as happened in OTL). But it would definitely profit from not being slashed by the Soviets out of fear and jealousy. There might be some manufacturing of small as well as large airliner types until at least the 1970s. We definitely might get a more varied jetplane portfolio, not just something on the level of OTL Albatroses. Maybe something at least as sophisticated as Yugoslavia's Orao was, if not even more so...
And unlike in OTL, if a Polish helicopter industry was established, it would most probably be an offshoot of Czechoslovakia's helicopter industry, not the Soviet one.
Speaking of Czechoslovak helicopters - there'd at least be one past the 1950s, unlike in OTL, where it went stillborn due to Soviet political and economic restrictions ! (This was the last heli we ever made. Shame it had no follow ups, we were doing great. ) I can't even imagine what would have happened if domestic helicopter manufacturing was allowed to evolve further, past its artificial demise in the late 1950s. While it wouldn't be a very large industry, it could certainly produce a few dozen memorable and globally succesful models over the decades.As far as armoured vehicles are concerned, I think there would be some parallels to OTL development programmes, particularly the cooperation with the Poles - like the one that occured in the 60s and 70s for the SKOT APC family, etc. Without the Soviets influencing the car park of our military, I am mostly in the dark about how domestic types of tanks, jeeps and self-propelled artillery would look like. Notably, since none of the post-WWII tanks were fully native in design, I really do wonder what the ATL non-East Block Czechoslovak tanks would look like and what design decisions and quirks they'd have. For jeeps, perhaps an evolution of the military version of the Škoda Tudor. Still, it's hard to tell whether we'd get Czechoslovak Landrovers by the mid-50s. I am totally unsure what route Czechoslovak self-propelled artillery would take. Would they eventually switch to wheeled SPAs, as in OTL, or would they stick to tracked designs ?
Small arms manufacturing will probably not be too different from OTL. However, some specialized types weapons that we didn't or couldn't develop in OTL - sniper rifles, rocket launchers, grenade launchers - might make an appearance in the ATL domestic firearms industry.
One could only guess what the organization of a non-EB Czechoslovak military would be. I think it would obviously try to stick to pre-WWII traditions, especially at first. What sort of structural transformations it could undergo in the following decades is entirely guesswork, so I'll refrain from any specific assesments. Given that Czechoslovakia would probably be a buffer zone state, the military would stay pretty big until the end of the Cold War and the country itself would be neutral like Finland or Austria. Come to think of it, Austria might end up joining NATO, given how it wouldn't directly border the EB in the ATL.
If you want to hear my opinion on OTL post-1993 Slovakia : The problems during Mečiar's era, while kind of solvable, don't matter much in the long run. However, the first and second Dzurinda government should have tried to start modernizing some of the equipment in addition to just decomissioning the old unneeded one. The big problem over the last decade was that the replacing of old tech by new one came a bit too late. Though it is partly understandable due to our economy, for years, we've had the least modernization and replacing of old equipment out of the four Visegrad countries. Ergo, I'd say : By 2008-2010, develop a domestic small arms upgrade programme with the Czech Republic or internally, modernize the tank fleet and keep it small, replace at least half of the old transport plane fleet, replace the Mi-2s for the multirole variant of the Polish PZL Sokol, decomission the Mi-24 earlier and buy a half a dozen of smaller attack choppers, replace at least half of the combat Albatroses for Czech ALCAs or British Hawks, create a framework for replacing the MiG 29s with Gripens, Hornets or MiG 35s by the mid-2010s. (Unlike now, when our fighter capability might experience problems with replacements by 2020.) As for how APCs, light all-terrain vehicles, SPAs and Mi-17s are to be treated in the ATL 2000s - there doesn't need to be much change in the way they were modernized during the OTL decade.
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Decomission everything except the submarine fleet, and fisheries protection vessels.
Also disband the RAF and fold the maritime patrol, air sea rescue, and a few interceptor squadrons into the FAA.
The Royal Marines can probably be kept on as a ceremonial force + SOF unit.
The army can be expanded but all units are made reserve TA with only a small full time professional cadre for training purposes.
Also disband the RAF and fold the maritime patrol, air sea rescue, and a few interceptor squadrons into the FAA.
The Royal Marines can probably be kept on as a ceremonial force + SOF unit.
The army can be expanded but all units are made reserve TA with only a small full time professional cadre for training purposes.
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Sweden
1) Reduce the army size. Quality instead of quantity in by 1950 instead of 1995. Fewer brigades and more labour-saving devices.
2) Motorize or mechanize all infantery that wasn't of ranger style (the northen brigades). Sweden could make a decent BTR-alike battle taxi in the 50s.
2.5) Motorize or mechanize the AA and artillery at the same time.
3) Give the coastal artillery mobile anti-ship guns and anti-ship missiles early instead of in the 80s/90s.
4) Drop domestic aircraft production after J35 (Draken), and instead first by F-4 Phantom (as heavy sea attack) and later F-20S or something with longer range.
5) Buy a lot of US surplus helicopters after Vietnam. AH-1 and UH-1 would be useful both in northern Sweden for delaying fighting, insertion of ranger units
and transports, but also in archepalego fighting.
6) Adopt some Stoner 223 carbine instead of the 762 Ak 4 in the early 60s. The AK wasn't bad, but to heavy and not really fitted to swedish terrain (forests, forests and more forests).
7) Keep the quality of reserve units (that were the whole military) higher, by exercises each second year instead of each fourth year and some lighter training each year (such as repeating basic infantery tactics and shooting for a week or two).
1) Reduce the army size. Quality instead of quantity in by 1950 instead of 1995. Fewer brigades and more labour-saving devices.
2) Motorize or mechanize all infantery that wasn't of ranger style (the northen brigades). Sweden could make a decent BTR-alike battle taxi in the 50s.
2.5) Motorize or mechanize the AA and artillery at the same time.
3) Give the coastal artillery mobile anti-ship guns and anti-ship missiles early instead of in the 80s/90s.
4) Drop domestic aircraft production after J35 (Draken), and instead first by F-4 Phantom (as heavy sea attack) and later F-20S or something with longer range.
5) Buy a lot of US surplus helicopters after Vietnam. AH-1 and UH-1 would be useful both in northern Sweden for delaying fighting, insertion of ranger units
and transports, but also in archepalego fighting.
6) Adopt some Stoner 223 carbine instead of the 762 Ak 4 in the early 60s. The AK wasn't bad, but to heavy and not really fitted to swedish terrain (forests, forests and more forests).
7) Keep the quality of reserve units (that were the whole military) higher, by exercises each second year instead of each fourth year and some lighter training each year (such as repeating basic infantery tactics and shooting for a week or two).
1. Possible, but not likely.
2. Impossible to any real degree without a sea change in public opinion.
As for America it needs to stop overly focusing so much attention on being able to deal with possible threats that might materialize down the road and focus far more on threats to our national security that currently exist and are building very quickly.
I'd say NZ's biggest military problem is a serious lack of a military problem. I hate to say it (I really do) but I think Helen Clark had the right idea when she rejected the F16s, they were well behind the state of the art when they were offered and NZ lacks the incentive to keep them up to date. It's not as if any of your neighbours need to be (or in our case could be) overmatched by a fleet of fighters, they'd tremble at your Frigates, P3s and SAS.
Agreed. The F-16s only really make sense if you either must have a respectable air-force for prestige, or if there is some sort of long term foreign deployment plan.
I've often thought that NZ and Australia should have pooled resources properly to create a small but effective deployable air-force/navy/army, then both countries have separate in-shore coast guards and large territorial forces. Not particularly practical I will admit.
I have to agree. The only thing fighters would be good for would be close air support in case a full-scale war broke out in a nearby Oceanian country. I don't know... Maybe Fiji, the Solomon Islands, Papua ? In any case, I think keeping the Aermacchis and acquiring a small number of BAE Hawks would have been a better decision, if you'd really need some combat-capable jets. And, in any case, attack and utility helicopters can fulfill most of the domestic and foreign combat roles equally well (the only downside is that you'd need to transport them by ship to the war-torn country first). Look at Macedonia - they are a small country, have no fighters and probably could not afford them, but they have 4 Mi-24s as subsitutes (a fairly good choice, IMHO, given how mountainous the country is). So, as long as Australia doesn't have a falling out with NZ and promises to maintain fighter cover, the lack of modern day NZ fighters isn't all that disconcerting.
abc123
Banned
Convince the government not to cut military spending so much after the war. And take the Swedih offer to replace the whole air wing of Mig-21`s with the Saab JAS 39 Gripen. And replace the tank fleet entirely with the Degman. Or buy a few Leopard 2 A4`s instead.
You mean't squadron?
Also, definitly Degman, better to have our own industry working than buying German tanks ( except if dirt cheap )...
Also, get from Swedes 2 Gotheborg corvettes as offset for Gripen.
I think its a bit of a case of use it or lose it, we never used the HMAS Melbourne so we lost the carrier. Perhaps 14 sqn does a quick Vietnam stint in 1966 before returning home or 75 sqn does a quick Vietnam stint when it gets its Skyhawks.