Improve US Combat Rations both in WW2 and After

[marathag]

Germans provided a portable field kitchen for each company, wood, coal or coke fired equipped a bread oven, Stewpot and coffeemaker.
US troops had one gasoline fired Coleman 500 portable Stove for each squad, with a slightly smaller,lighter unit for airborne and mountain units for warming the canned rations.

 

[M79]

Ice cream barge? Pitiful.

British Pacific Fleet had BREWERY SHIPS!!! At the insistence of Churchill no less

I think the old Royal Navy rule about tots of (pusser's) rum predates Churchill and that beer was a permissible substitute...splice the mainbrace and all that...

 

[Dilvish]

Mutton probably wouldn't be a hit with GI's or Marines as a general thing - it's just always been demeaned in the US. Conversely, lamb is a favorite for both the wealthy and several US-based ethnic groups. Lamb has always been an expensive meat in the US.

Interesting idea on using rabbit as a food source. That could have been a real useful adjunct. When I was a kid, rabbit was a pretty common staple for families with hunters - which was most of us. Our rabbits were mostly grass and garden greens fed, so they had a neutral taste - "like chicken.....". Like venison or beef, what the animal eats makes a difference on taste - not that the Army would sweat over satisfying the epicures.... What do Aussie rabbits eat and how would that affect taste?

I like the idea of foil packed items, especially if you could dry/condense the contents - save weight and space and probably improve shelf-life

How about a long shelf-life fat pack? Whatever food oil keeps well under a wide range of temperatures. Olive oil sets hard at low temps, but otherwise would be useful as an energy source, cooking, and a million other purposes. Ghee is shelf-stable, but I don't know if that's an option. Something along those lines, anyway.

The dried fruit is a tasty sweet treat, but its mostly included for the fiber it adds to the diet. Apricots, prunes, dried apples (with skin) are better.

I am guessing that in the WW-2 period, olive oil would be too hard to come by. Even now, I believe that most of the supply comes from countries bordering the Med. Australia exports olive oil now, but back then? California's production was probably less than it is now. Chile and Argentina are the other olive oil exporting countries that I'm familiar with. Extra virgin olive oil has a typical two year shelf life. I'm not sure about the shelf life of plain olive oil (the usual lowest edible grade). For the USA, I would go with peanut butter as the long shelf-life fat pack. It would also provide some protein.

There is an idea - the Axis controlled directly or indirectly a lot of the world's olive oil supply. Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Turkey, Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria, Syria. These days Spain is the largest producer of olive oil, with Italy second. Argentina at #10 is the only non-Med country.

 

[unclepatrick]

Meals Rejected by Everyone

In the 80's when MRE first came out , they were called "Meals Refused by Ethiopians".

 

[Rfl23]

Well for me the best improvement is make them look at the very least paleteable because well you eat with your eye (no matter how plain if a food looks good you are tempted to eat it) and second why not add fishing line in the ration so the soldiers can fish (atleast that he can have a new thing to add in his rations) and well substuting more expensive meat with lesser expensive meat is a viable option just make sure to season well and maybe make them into a stew/sauce so they wont know what they ate and third maybe adding salt/pepper/spices in the ration will be good so that the soldiers on the field can at the very least spice it up and make the food slighty better

 

[marathag]

adding salt/pepper/spices

US palate at the time was heavy on salt, everything else was 'too ethnic' unless you came from Texas or New Mexico. Even black pepper had the risk of 'too spicy'

 

[Major Major]

A lovely idea. However, as you doubtless know, USN was dry, so not an option. (Persuading the Navy to provide a ship to supply the Army or Marines might have been problematic... )

The U.S. did arrange shipborne production of Coke, however. (Can't say exactly when or where, offhand.)

Thx for the link.

Edit:

That doesn't excuse plain bad design. The troops in the field have to carry the rat cans; if the total package is 500g & 100g is tin that's just thrown away... (Not to mention the issue of noise.) It's the same reason a lighter rifle (& lighter ammo, even) is a good thing.

I've only read one account of the Marauders, myself, but it made the point: the guys were constantly thinking about food, dreaming about food. You don't do that on anything like an adequate diet.

There was one cute bit recorded. One of the guys talked about what he was going to do with his girl when he got back. He was going to lovingly undress her. Then he was going to coat her in whipped cream. Then he was going to eat her.

Edit 2:
First, I'd fire Quartermaster General Edmund B. Gregory.

<snip>

Seventh, I'd keep the carne seca, but substitute the meat for a lower-grade or less-popular kind (rabbit? mutton?), spiced to hide the fact.

Eighth, GET RID OF HAM AND LIMA BEANS! Those were so disgusting they were called "ham and [REDACTED]".

 

[Rfl23]

US palate at the time was heavy on salt, everything else was 'too ethnic' unless you came from Texas or New Mexico. Even black pepper had the risk of 'too spicy'

Well even adding in salt packet to the ration would probably make the soldiers can at the very least shove the ration down their mouth quickly i mean i heard some mixing in biscuit with boullion cubes

 

[Driftless]

US palate at the time was heavy on salt, everything else was 'too ethnic' unless you came from Texas or New Mexico. Even black pepper had the risk of 'too spicy'

A standing joke on Scandinavian heritage cooking across the Mid and Northwest was that the food was pale and bland. Heavy on dairy. Pickled herring was really out on the fringes of cuisine . Even "chili" for school or public event feeds was utterly lacking in chili peppers, cumin, cilantro, any spice beyond salt. It was hamburger, tomato and bean stew. Chicken Chow Mein was pretty damn daring....

 

[Cryhavoc101]

I recall watching a program some years back about 'modern' US MREs and the people that developed it asked what the troops really wanted

Bread - was the answer - so they developed a long lasting bread that was sealed in a self heating package - basically it cooked the bread when activated - so the troops would have fresh bread

I have no idea if it was any good - but I cannot imagine the process to allow the product to last would have made it the best bread!

 

[marathag]

I recall watching a program some years back about 'modern' US MREs and the people that developed it asked what the troops really wanted

Bread - was the answer - so they developed a long lasting bread that was sealed in a self heating package - basically it cooked the bread when activated - so the troops would have fresh bread

I have no idea if it was any good - but I cannot imagine the process to allow the product to last would have made it the best bread!

The MRE pizza is ok, but outstanding effort to make something like that actually taste like pizza, and be shelf stable for years.

 

[Gannt the chartist]

Or you could drink tea. Dried tea dried milk with sugar by the gallon.

People should remember that the US army does not really have any combat experience at scale since the Civil War so they are fumbling their way through to what's important. Which is hot food regularly and preferably cooked by someone who knows what they are doing but apart from that generally they do a pretty good job of it.

Part of the problem is the US has very little of warfare up tp and including WW2 so they have the kit but don't understand the significance.

Simple example the US infantry section is 12 men, so if you are down to 10 because shit happens everyone is needed on the line because if not you are down a significant proportion of strength.

A British Section is 10 men, but the assumption is shit is going to happen so train and fight as 8 and if you have 10 that means the corporal is happy to have to two at at time drop back a few yard and make a brew or hot food.

The pure calorific value is true but a lot is about the QM units and higher command not understanding the importance of hot food and leadership and making the QM units do what they were perfectly capable of doing in the first place.

 

[Dilvish]

The MRE pizza is ok, but outstanding effort to make something like that actually taste like pizza, and be shelf stable for years.

That MRE pizza is surprising. Smells good, looks like pizza, and tastes okay. I don't know how many years it took to develop the pizza. Two companies were going to produce it, but only one (Bridgford) was able to reliably meet the analytical requirements to ensure shelf stability.

 

[vl100butch]

A standing joke on Scandinavian heritage cooking across the Mid and Northwest was that the food was pale and bland. Heavy on dairy. Pickled herring was really out on the fringes of cuisine . Even "chili" for school or public event feeds was utterly lacking in chili peppers, cumin, cilantro, any spice beyond salt. It was hamburger, tomato and bean stew. Chicken Chow Mein was pretty damn daring....

I've heard stories about National Guardsmen deployed to Louisiana after Katrina who couldn't handle the local food and bought out all the sliced bread from the local groceries...

 

[Rickshaw]

What do Aussie rabbits eat and how would that affect taste?

Rabbits downunder are a pest. Usually eaten by impoverished people who needed to eat some protein but who can't afford any other source of meat, such as beef/lamb/pork/chicken. During the Depression years, they were in vast numbers and were hunted out of desperation. I've eaten Rabbit but not for many years. Tasted just like Chicken. It had no special taste apart from what the cook could impart from herbs or spices that the cook might use. The joke was that there were Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurants (and they were a new thing, then) which used Rabbit instead of Chicken. Rabbits are now pretty well controlled by various measures - usually diseases like Myxomatosis and Rabbit hemorrhagic disease downunder.

 

[marathag]

from the wiki

Vilhjalmur Stefansson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The groups that depend on the blubber animals are the most fortunate in the hunting way of life, for they never suffer from fat-hunger. This trouble is worst, so far as North America is concerned, among those forest Indians who depend at times on rabbits, the leanest animal in the North, and who develop the extreme fat-hunger known as rabbit-starvation. Rabbit eaters, if they have no fat from another source—beaver, moose, fish—will develop diarrhea in about a week, with headache, lassitude and vague discomfort. If there are enough rabbits, the people eat till their stomachs are distended; but no matter how much they eat they feel unsatisfied. Some think a man will die sooner if he eats continually of fat-free meat than if he eats nothing, but this is a belief on which sufficient evidence for a decision has not been gathered in the North. Deaths from rabbit-starvation, or from the eating of other skinny meat, are rare; for everyone understands the principle, and any possible preventive steps are naturally taken.[6]

A World War II-era Arctic survival booklet issued by the Flight Control Command of the United States Army Air Forces included this emphatic warning: "Because of the importance of fats, under no conditions limit yourself to a meat diet of rabbit just because they happen to be plentiful in the region where you are forced down. A continued diet of rabbit will produce rabbit starvation -- diarrhea will begin in about a week and if the diet is continued DEATH MAY RESULT."[7]

See? Everything in Oz that walks, crawls, or even hops, wants to kill you.

 

[Rickshaw]

from the wiki

Vilhjalmur Stefansson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A World War II-era Arctic survival booklet issued by the Flight Control Command of the United States Army Air Forces included this emphatic warning: "Because of the importance of fats, under no conditions limit yourself to a meat diet of rabbit just because they happen to be plentiful in the region where you are forced down. A continued diet of rabbit will produce rabbit starvation -- diarrhea will begin in about a week and if the diet is continued DEATH MAY RESULT."[7]

See? Everything in Oz that walks, crawls, or even hops, wants to kill you.

Rabbits and Hares are not native to Australia. They were introduced by European settlers for hunting purposes. If a person was forced to persist on Rabbit downunder they'd either be lazy or incompetent. Kangaroo and Wallaby are plentiful and contain more than enough fat for human consumption. I regularly eat Kangaroo and it is wonderful meat, particularly with a diet in which other meats feature. Makes superb curries. Not everything is, despite the rumours overseas to the contrary, is out to kill you Downunder. Sure, we have poisonous snakes (seven out of the ten most poisonous snakes come from Australia), poisonous spiders (Red Back, Funnelweb), mammals (yes there are poisonous mammals - the Platypus has a poison spur on it's hind legs), Octopi (Blue Ringed variety), shellfish, jellyfish and the occasional housefly. Just avoid them and they'll leave you alone.

 

[yulzari]

US rations?
Wot no tea!
Primitive savages.
You can keep an active Section going unfed for at least three days as long as they can brew up regularly. Hot tea can maintain morale better than cold rations.

BTW British beer is brewed to be served at cellar temperature not room temperature I.e. cool, so that you can taste it. Not freezing cold like the USA fear that the customers will taste their product........

Unless things have changed in the last 30 or so years the ratio of ration swaps of British for US rations was 3 US for 1 British since WW2.

 

[Major Major]

Rabbits and Hares are not native to Australia. They were introduced by European settlers for hunting purposes. If a person was forced to persist on Rabbit downunder they'd either be lazy or incompetent

Now you know why in Australia they hope the Tasmanian Devil will get Bugs Bunny.

 

[Crowbar Six]

Steve is the guy for this thread