Imperial German naval aviation

This thread was promped by the "Bismarck" thread which veered into a discussion of aircraft carriers and Germany.

I think there is little argument that, by 1933 (the point the Versailles Treaty began being openly disregarded), Germany was ill-suited (geographically, technologically, and operationally) for effective employment of aircraft carriers other than as targets for RAF airstrikes.

But what if Germany took the lead in this develeopment in WW1, giving them a wealth of experience and operational knowledge in this field in the interwar period?

In OTL, Germany put its major navial aviation scouting emphasis into zeppelins largely because of the advocacy of Peter Strasser and Hipper. By 1917-18 this proved to be a technological dead end, at least as long as the airships would be fulled with hydrogen and operations would be primarily in the lousy weather of the North Sea and North Atlantic.

However, what if Strasser died in a 1914 zeppelin crash and German fascination with the naval zeppelin died early? Germany fielded arguably the best floatplanes and flying boats of anyone in WW1 and certainly had the merchant stock and uncompleted battlecruiser hulls to experiment with aircraft/seaplane carriers. Like zeppelins, this might have been seen as a way to supplement Germany's small scout cruiser force and/or make up for numbers with new technologies.

Imagine the High Seas Fleet with an auxilliary force of converted merchants serving as seaplane tenders by 1916-17 and one or two Lutzow BC hulls completed as experimental full or half-deck aircraft carriers by 1917 shipping Hansa-Brandenburg floatplanes or wheeled Albatross fighters.

While this would probably not alter the naval balance in a sea engagement(I have difficulty believing a flight of primitive torpedo-armed floatplanes could sink a Queen Elizabeth at sea), what if the Germans risked all and went for a surprise attack at British forces berthed in Scapa Flow. Would this be possible? Could the results be shocking enough to affect the diplomatic course of the war?
 

MrP

Banned
I s'pose it depends when they start. One must note, that they have a technological edge with the Zeppelin, since initially it's pretty much impervious to enemy fire. I s'pose if they start early enough and plan a major attack like the one the Brits wanted against the HSF IOTL, they could have the necessary 'planes. Bit busy trying to find out whether some friends are coming for a bbq, but will try to consider this in more detail later.
 

Thande

Donor
Apologies if this sounds a bit ah.com, but is an airship carrier at all possible? (By which I mean a floating base for airships, not an airship that IS a carrier). Just to tie it into what P said about being invested in zeppelins due to the technological superiority.
 

MrP

Banned
Apologies if this sounds a bit ah.com, but is an airship carrier at all possible? (By which I mean a floating base for airships, not an airship that IS a carrier). Just to tie it into what P said about being invested in zeppelins due to the technological superiority.

I suppose it's probably practical, but I'd think it'd have to be very large indeed to carry reasonably-sized smaller airships. Not really an airship expert m'self, of course.
 
Apologies if this sounds a bit ah.com, but is an airship carrier at all possible? (By which I mean a floating base for airships, not an airship that IS a carrier). Just to tie it into what P said about being invested in zeppelins due to the technological superiority.

Perhaps, but to what end? The USN experimented with a converted collier (USS Patoka) as a dedicated airship tender with a mooring mast, fuel, limited helium reserves and handling equipment at the stern, but the airships needed to be essentially crewed and "flown" while attached. Also, it could only be used as a stationary base in sheltered conditions...the ship was actually far smaller than the airships it serviced and could not have transported the airships. A ship which could actually house and transport a 600 foot long airship (or two!!) would be huge by WW1 standards. Also, experiments with landing the airship USS Los Angeles on the carrier USS Saratoga in the 1930's showed this to be dangerous and of no military use

I agree with you and MrP that the technological superiority of the airship and Germany's heavy investiment in them would be arguments against Germany switching from a (vaguely proven) weapons system to something new like the aircraft carrier. That is why I made the TL early enough (1914) to perhaps forestall or radically limit the German Navy's interest in Zeppelins.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
This thread was promped by the "Bismarck" thread which veered into a discussion of aircraft carriers and Germany.

I think there is little argument that, by 1933 (the point the Versailles Treaty began being openly disregarded), Germany was ill-suited (geographically, technologically, and operationally) for effective employment of aircraft carriers other than as targets for RAF airstrikes.

But what if Germany took the lead in this develeopment in WW1, giving them a wealth of experience and operational knowledge in this field in the interwar period?

In OTL, Germany put its major navial aviation scouting emphasis into zeppelins largely because of the advocacy of Peter Strasser and Hipper. By 1917-18 this proved to be a technological dead end, at least as long as the airships would be fulled with hydrogen and operations would be primarily in the lousy weather of the North Sea and North Atlantic.

However, what if Strasser died in a 1914 zeppelin crash and German fascination with the naval zeppelin died early? Germany fielded arguably the best floatplanes and flying boats of anyone in WW1 and certainly had the merchant stock and uncompleted battlecruiser hulls to experiment with aircraft/seaplane carriers. Like zeppelins, this might have been seen as a way to supplement Germany's small scout cruiser force and/or make up for numbers with new technologies.

Imagine the High Seas Fleet with an auxilliary force of converted merchants serving as seaplane tenders by 1916-17 and one or two Lutzow BC hulls completed as experimental full or half-deck aircraft carriers by 1917 shipping Hansa-Brandenburg floatplanes or wheeled Albatross fighters.

While this would probably not alter the naval balance in a sea engagement(I have difficulty believing a flight of primitive torpedo-armed floatplanes could sink a Queen Elizabeth at sea), what if the Germans risked all and went for a surprise attack at British forces berthed in Scapa Flow. Would this be possible? Could the results be shocking enough to affect the diplomatic course of the war?

The overall tech would be very difficult to make work. The air launched torpedoes of the day weren't great, and dropping them in a harbor would have been tricky as hell.

On the other hand, it can't be any worse for Imperial Germany in the end game than it turned out IOTL.
 
While this would probably not alter the naval balance in a sea engagement(I have difficulty believing a flight of primitive torpedo-armed floatplanes could sink a Queen Elizabeth at sea)
I have just one word for you: Bismarck. Those Stringbags would have been right at home in WW1...
what if the Germans risked all and went for a surprise attack at British forces berthed in Scapa Flow. Would this be possible? Could the results be shocking enough to affect the diplomatic course of the war?
One more word: Taranto. It might not alter the diplomatic course, but it surely could turn the RN on its head...
 
Deep water...

The overall tech would be very difficult to make work. The air launched torpedoes of the day weren't great, and dropping them in a harbor would have been tricky as hell.

On the other hand, it can't be any worse for Imperial Germany in the end game than it turned out IOTL.

IIR, Scapa is quite deep, so that wouldn't be a factor. Note that most of the ships sunk there were completely submerged--IIRC, weren't even a hazard to navigation after sinking. Still very difficult, but water depth won't kill the fish.
 
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