Imperial German invasion of the USA

A limited US-German naval war in the Pacific is more likely than a German invasion of the mainland United States. A scenario where "US territory" is the Philippines and a couple South Pacific Islands, and German "territory" involved is Tsingtao, Samoa, and Papua New Guinea could be interesting.
 
The only country that could invade the USA in that time period would be the British Empire via Canada, and even that would be a difficult task. Germany has no shot in Hell of even starting something like this.
 

Driftless

Donor
A limited US-German naval war in the Pacific is more likely than a German invasion of the mainland United States. A scenario where "US territory" is the Philippines and a couple South Pacific Islands, and German "territory" involved is Tsingtao, Samoa, and Papua New Guinea could be interesting.

I think those ideas have some plausibility. Admiral Diedrichs sniffed around Manila shortly after Admiral Dewey had destroyed the Spanish naval forces. Dewey & company had shot up a good portion of their ammunition, and I believe the restock was either still on the West Coast, or barely in route; so Dewey had some concerns.

There had already been some huffing and puffing between the US and Germany in 1889 at Samoa, but a hurricane beat up both sides significantly.
 
The only country that could invade the USA in that time period would be the British Empire via Canada, and even that would be a difficult task. Germany has no shot in Hell of even starting something like this.

However Germany did have some insane plans for this.
 
I think those ideas have some plausibility. Admiral Diedrichs sniffed around Manila shortly after Admiral Dewey had destroyed the Spanish naval forces. Dewey & company had shot up a good portion of their ammunition, and I believe the restock was either still on the West Coast, or barely in route; so Dewey had some concerns.

There had already been some huffing and puffing between the US and Germany in 1889 at Samoa, but a hurricane beat up both sides significantly.
Slightly different weather is a plausible POD for this confrontation to happen, this could change the world's alliance system. Could a war in 1899 butterfly the Spanish-American war or turn it into a Spanish-German war?

It would be interesting if the US was pulled into the alliance system as a result of this and the Spanish American war ended up being a "team effort" between the US and another power to defeat Spain and dive up its colonies between them.

The Anglo-Japanese Treaty of Alliance wasn't signed until 1902, but there was widespread support for it and the treaty was in the works by the 1890s. How would Japan be affected by a conflict in the Pacific?
 

Driftless

Donor
I think there's several avenues that might-have-been. To that end, When Dewey left Hong Kong for Manila Bay, his British counterparts thought the Americans were likely going to their doom. In hindsight, that seems ludicrous, but that was a prevailing view. The Spanish had ships, forts, shore batteries, minefields, etc.

If the British (or Japanese, Germans, Dutch, or French) anticipated the sudden and complete collapse of the Spanish East Indies, might they have acted differently up front?
 
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German logistics run into obvious problems and the beach head they establish slowly gets turned back, the germans do minor damage but manage to completely and utterally enrage the americans.

The French do a Merry jig, and use diplomacy to try to create a massive anti german alliance, which probally works, world war 1 starts early and germany does not have a good time.
 
The German Navy was much smaller in 1901 than in 1914 - it had even less ability to operate in any strength on the Eastern Seaboard or the Gulf of Mexico than in 1914

Their logi would suck
 
The German Navy was much smaller in 1901 than in 1914 - it had even less ability to operate in any strength on the Eastern Seaboard or the Gulf of Mexico than in 1914

Their logi would suck

I agree I also think that this might end up being a French wank time line for at least 20 years after the war.
 
Would have been interesting seeing it unfold had Germany managed to somehow gain either Greenland or Iceland beforehand from Denmark, especially if the US gains said territories in the aftermath.

However given the British would obviously perceive a German ruled Greenland and Iceland as a threat in such a scenario, would they be inclined to support the US or remain neutral?
 
USA vs Britain-Germany-Japan (maybe with France and Russia on the US side) in the early 1900s would be quite a matchup even if it would take a pre-1900 POD to pull off. An invasion route through Canada could absolutely be secured for the Anglo-German side which could and would cause severe damage (and slow down the US Navy's buildup/repair). It's the last time the continental US can be feasibly invaded too.
 
Any way you slice it, Britain would have to be comfortable with a major German naval base (say, Portsmouth, New Hampshire, New York or Boston) within three days sailing of Halifax. If I recall correctly, the RN's North American Station was a major command prior to thew Fisher reforms/redeployment/mass scrap metal sale.
 
Any way you slice it, Britain would have to be comfortable with a major German naval base (say, Portsmouth, New Hampshire, New York or Boston) within three days sailing of Halifax. If I recall correctly, the RN's North American Station was a major command prior to thew Fisher reforms/redeployment/mass scrap metal sale.

And that was only because Anglo-US relations were stable enough that Fisher was essentially willing to cede naval dominance in the Western Hemisphere to the US Navy because the US was no longer really much of threat (and more of a potential ally/partner) to British interests in that part of the world.
 
Which kind of answers the British strategic/diplomatic question of "Do we want a neutral/friendly US or a 'Who Know's What Those Wacky Huns Will Do Next?' German naval presence across our sea lanes to Canada?" I don't see the Admiralty, Parliament or British public sentiment at the time going for the latter.
 
Which kind of answers the British strategic/diplomatic question of "Do we want a neutral/friendly US or a 'Who Know's What Those Wacky Huns Will Do Next?' German naval presence across our sea lanes to Canada?" I don't see the Admiralty, Parliament or British public sentiment at the time going for the latter.
It’s not even that. Let’s handwave away the logistical shocker of doing something like Operation Torch pre WW1, and assume a sustainable German combat presence on the Eastern seaboard.

Continental Europe’s dominant military and industrial power potentially adding the entire USA to their economy, or forcing them into some sort of client state status. Prussians in charge of Carnegie Steel, Standard Oil, etc etc. It’s full-on Existential Threat Time for both UK and France. They HAVE to make sure the US wins.
 
It’s not even that. Let’s handwave away the logistical shocker of doing something like Operation Torch pre WW1, and assume a sustainable German combat presence on the Eastern seaboard.

Continental Europe’s dominant military and industrial power potentially adding the entire USA to their economy, or forcing them into some sort of client state status. Prussians in charge of Carnegie Steel, Standard Oil, etc etc. It’s full-on Existential Threat Time for both UK and France. They HAVE to make sure the US wins.

The Kaiser's plan was to end the American influence on the world.
 

Driftless

Donor
Since we were discussing the late Robert Conroy: the following idea would be right in Mr Conroy's wheelhouse..... Perhaps with a gentle nudge from Perfidious Albion, there's a "Grand Banks Incident" before the 1904 "Dogger Bank Incident"... That incident serves as a casus belli to abuse the Kaiser of his overreaching ambition. :winkytongue:
 
The Kaiser's plan was to end the American influence on the world.
Yeah but he’s quite obviously insane as well as Prussian. Once he’s got his army ashore it’s only a matter of time before he puts a pickelhaube on the Statue of Liberty and has Krupp running Philadelphia.

Also, what better way to end the influence of America than to Germanise it? In fact, it’s part full of Germans already, he’s been infiltrating them for years!

Steps will have to be taken.
 
POD: The 1895 Venezuelan Crisis heats further, damaging relations between the US and Britain, due to handwavium. The actual invasion happens in 1904.

The key European alliances at the time are France-Russia and Germany-Austria/Hungary-Italy, and it's early enough in the German naval buildup for the Kaiser to dial back and mend fences with the British. The most immediately relevant rivalries are Germany v. France and, ITTL, UK v. US.

Due to assorted minor effects that somebody else who knows the time period better can sort out, the British view shifts that the United States is no longer a friendly neutral, but rather more of a true neutral wanna-be-hegemon. In the interests of establishing dominance in the Pacific, the British form closer ties to Japan and work to solve tensions with the Germans, alarming the French; this causes the French to reach out to the Americans. When the Germans look to give the United States a bloody nose to break American power before it can become overwhelming, the British are talked into lending support - the might of the Royal Navy, the staging point in Canada, and perhaps minor land forces (though only to defend Canada). The Japanese are invited along, as well, with the US Pacific possessions offered as a prize in exchange for opening a second naval front.

Due to actual ongoing tensions with an European power, Teddy doesn't allow the US Army to remain quite so unprepared, even if the army is small by European standards. The invasion, centered on New England and the Great Lakes, bogs down rapidly; the front is wide, the (newly formed) National Guard units are highly motivated, and much of the terrain is either highly defensible or difficult to traverse. H.M.S. Dreadnought has yet to launch and the German navy is still fairly weak, so the US Navy is able to function well in a purely defensive role, denying the British complete local dominance.

This has incredible potential to gradually devolve into a general Great War. The Russo-Japanese War may or may not be butterflied away, but the underlying tensions remain, and France is still quite leery of Germany; the French may decide that, with the Germans so committed overseas against their buddies and the British Navy tied up, this is their chance to strike. Multiple separate conflicts emerge: United States vs. Britain + Germany + Japan, Germany + Austria-Hungary + Italy vs. France + Russia, Russia vs. Japan.
 
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