Imperator Francorum: A Napoleon II Timeline

[Electric Monk]

With no second white terror, four year occupation army, 700 million francs saved, France is in a rather better place than OTL—plus even a bit more land and islands.

Which of course probably just makes the Bourbons wildly overconfident and with a far stronger Napoléon contingent around.

 

[Sébastien]

Might also make the conquest of Algeria a lot easier and faster... or worse because of the overconfidence.

 

[da Racontor]

Glad to see your back!

Also what is the name of that painting were Louis XVIII is protecting the modesty of the woman? I have never seen it before and I think it makes a great contrast to the revolutionary imagery floating around at the time.

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

i've decided to add my version with no make up:

I love it! I can see this be a sort of modern History meme in this universe when it gets to the modern day.

The fact I laughed at this until my sides hurt proves that I'm still just a child.

I can resonate with that sentiment.

This is the mine:

Damn the meme game is awesome! This is the reason why I love AH.

With no second white terror

Well there kinda was with the various riots that occurred in parts of France against some Napoleonic areas. Though they're pretty fringe to be of much political significans, but not small enough that the Bonapartists, Republicans, and others can weaponize that as Anti-Bourbon Propaganda.

four year occupation army, 700 million francs saved

Didn't they have to have British loans to pay that off?

Still France's economic situation in 1815 was less than ideal. It was part of the reason why Napoleon was able to get more support during the Hundred days in otl.

plus even a bit more land and islands.

Which islands exactly are you referring to? I know they held some bits of Africa though.

Honestly I have some divergent plans for otl. As the the Third Republic's colonization was largely a vanity project to make up for the loss of Alsace-Lorraine, this could see the scramble for Africa delayed by a couple of decades perhaps, or perhaps a less intensive one. A second French Empire had it stayed alive in otl probably would have focused on much more profitable ventures (ie high status colonies) than interior of Africa.

Though you could see the interior colonized when things like oil are discovered in the distant future.

Which of course probably just makes the Bourbons wildly overconfident

Your Majesty the people are revolting in the streets!
Oh no he's wearing airpods, he can't hear us.

with a far stronger Napoléon contingent around.

Yup. Large parts of the army would probably still be loyal to him/his ideology. And without the disgrace from the Hundred Days, many more Napoleonic officers will probably be active in French politics and probably serving among the older demographic of the officer corps. Still even if Napoleon comes around, he'd still have to prove himself as in 1830 he'd be a 19 year old who speaks French with a Southern-German accent who grew up in Vienna.

Glad to see your back!

Glad to be back as well!

Also what is the name of that painting were Louis XVIII is protecting the modesty of the woman? I have never seen it before and I think it makes a great contrast to the revolutionary imagery floating around at the time.

I think its called Allegory of the Restoration. Its a pretty cool painting. I knew as soon as I saw it that I wanted to feature it in my tl.

Though I couldn't really find a better picture of it. A lot of old relics and stuff from monarchical France were destroyed during the various Revolutions France had. The Tuileries Palace for example burned down during the chaos after the Franco-Prussian War.

Might also make the conquest of Algeria a lot easier and faster... or worse because of the overconfidence.

True. Though the conquest might end up different than otl. The coastal strip is more valuable in terms of territory than the interior. Though in regards to the middle east you could see instead of Napoleonic Mamaluk cavalry, Napoleonic Berber cavalry instead as part of the French Foreign legion.

Well, it will still be fun to watch him fail to acknowledge the shifts that the French Revolution has irreversably caused.

Yeah pretty much. Though I kinda feel bad for him as in otl he thought what he was doing was for the benefit of the people, and it was something they supported. The man was so out of touch with things that its pretty sad.

It is a great portrait.

Thanks! Glad you like it.

 

[da Racontor]

[snip]

I think its called Allegory of the Restoration. Its a pretty cool painting. I knew as soon as I saw it that I wanted to feature it in my tl.

Though I couldn't really find a better picture of it. A lot of old relics and stuff from monarchical France were destroyed during the various Revolutions France had. The Tuileries Palace for example burned down during the chaos after the Franco-Prussian War.


[snip]

Make you wonder how many other paintings didn't make it.
Now that I know about it, I really want to squeeze it in my own tl somehow. Even though Louis XVII survives in that one.

 

[GameBawesome]

I just realized a butterfly effect. Without Waterloo, the British Royal Guards wouldn’t have those awesome tall bearskin hats

 

[Electric Monk]

Well there kinda was with the various riots that occurred in parts of France against some Napoleonic areas. Though they're pretty fringe to be of much political significans, but not small enough that the Bonapartists, Republicans, and others can weaponize that as Anti-Bourbon Propaganda.

Didn't they have to have British loans to pay that off?

Still France's economic situation in 1815 was less than ideal. It was part of the reason why Napoleon was able to get more support during the Hundred days in otl.

Which islands exactly are you referring to? I know they held some bits of Africa though.

Honestly I have some divergent plans for otl. As the the Third Republic's colonization was largely a vanity project to make up for the loss of Alsace-Lorraine, this could see the scramble for Africa delayed by a couple of decades perhaps, or perhaps a less intensive one. A second French Empire had it stayed alive in otl probably would have focused on much more profitable ventures (ie high status colonies) than interior of Africa.

Yup. Large parts of the army would probably still be loyal to him/his ideology. And without the disgrace from the Hundred Days, many more Napoleonic officers will probably be active in French politics and probably serving among the older demographic of the officer corps. Still even if Napoleon comes around, he'd still have to prove himself as in 1830 he'd be a 19 year old who speaks French with a Southern-German accent who grew up in Vienna.

My full list of 1814 vs 1815:

2 Indian and 2 Caribbean sets of islands with Mauritius, Seychelles, St Lucia, and Tobago.

1814 borders
-slightly farther up the Rhine to where it meets the Qucih river
-Saarbruck and area (Saarland)
-roughly the southern third of Namur and the south sticking out piece of Hainaut
-Fontaines in Switzerland
-department of Haute-Savoie
-700 million francs saved
-no occupying army for three years (my mistake on four earlier)
-no second White Terror (wider spread in OTL v. ATL, given the King’s bygones be bygones position he only abandoned post Napoléon’s return)

Agreed on France’s position in 1814-1815, the difference is that France is moderately set up better for the 1820s with a proper post-war boost without the money and army. (As for British loans I don’t know off hand, but still better for France not adding more debt.)

I mean your timeline is named after Napoléon II, it’s the most obvious spoiler in the world that handicaps aside he’ll succeed at least in part. As for the accent… have him hook up with a theatre actress lol

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

Make you wonder how many other paintings didn't make it.
Now that I know about it, I really want to squeeze it in my own tl somehow. Even though Louis XVII survives in that one.

I think it could still work, albeit with some retconning.

I just realized a butterfly effect. Without Waterloo, the British Royal Guards wouldn’t have those awesome tall bearskin hats

True lol.

2 Indian and 2 Caribbean sets of islands with Mauritius, Seychelles, St Lucia, and Tobago.

This could affect things in the Americas with France having a much bigger presence.

-no second White Terror (wider spread in OTL v. ATL, given the King’s bygones be bygones position he only abandoned post Napoléon’s return)

Agreed on France’s position in 1814-1815, the difference is that France is moderately set up better for the 1820s with a proper post-war boost without the money and army. (As for British loans I don’t know off hand, but still better for France not adding more debt.)

I mean your timeline is named after Napoléon II, it’s the most obvious spoiler in the world that handicaps aside he’ll succeed at least in part. As for the accent… have him hook up with a theatre actress lol

Yup.

By "hooking up" with a theater actress, do you mean having Napoleon II somehow end up with a mistress that also teaches him how to speak conversational/vernacular French? Napoleon II seemed to be a bit influenced by his grandfather's ways. Emperor Franz was quite religiously devout and socially quite conservative. Napoleon II had a bit of a falling out with his mother over her having illegitimate children. So if anything Napoleon II might be averse to having a mistress at such a young age. Though his other cousin Louis-Napoleon was more like his uncle Napoleon in that regard.

 

[DracoLazarus]

I think it could still work, albeit with some retconning.


True lol.


This could affect things in the Americas with France having a much bigger presence.


Yup.

By "hooking up" with a theater actress, do you mean having Napoleon II somehow end up with a mistress that also teaches him how to speak conversational/vernacular French? Napoleon II seemed to be a bit influenced by his grandfather's ways. Emperor Franz was quite religiously devout and socially quite conservative. Napoleon II had a bit of a falling out with his mother over her having illegitimate children. So if anything Napoleon II might be averse to having a mistress at such a young age. Though his other cousin Louis-Napoleon was more like his uncle Napoleon in that regard.

The funny thing would be if the two cousins meet up in Switzerland and become fast friends despite being very different from one another.

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

The funny thing would be if the two cousins meet up in Switzerland and become fast friends despite being very different from one another.

True lol. Though as for the Napoleonic family, some divergences will occur from otl. Though I expect Louis-Napoleon and Napoleon II to become fast friends despite their differences. Just look at Berthier and Napoleon who got along quite well. Though some of the scandal from Bertheir's love life pissed off Napoleon to no end.

This could help Napoleon in regards to getting the Cabonari on his side too as Louis-Napoleon in otl fought alongside them, and was sympathetic to them.

 

[Wendell]

There might be some interesting minor butterflies in the United States if there is no exodus from France of revolutionaries and Bonapartists in 1814-1816.

 

[Electric Monk]

By "hooking up" with a theater actress, do you mean having Napoleon II somehow end up with a mistress that also teaches him how to speak conversational/vernacular French? Napoleon II seemed to be a bit influenced by his grandfather's ways. Emperor Franz was quite religiously devout and socially quite conservative. Napoleon II had a bit of a falling out with his mother over her having illegitimate children. So if anything Napoleon II might be averse to having a mistress at such a young age. Though his other cousin Louis-Napoleon was more like his uncle Napoleon in that regard.

That’s what I meant, but in light of your point just have interested in the theatre and strike up a friendship with an actor.

Indeed after consulting Wikipedia it seems that old school supporters went head to head with Victor Hugo new school in a clash of styles circa 1830. That seems pretty promising off hand.

 

[Malta]

Very interesting. I look forward to the second overthrow of the Bourbons

 

[Whiteshore]

With the Concert of Europe mod, Carlist Spain managed to keep parts of its Empire and when it industrialized, it became a scary force to be reckoned with.

I wonder how Spain's colonial empire would be impacted by this industrialization? I was thinking that Spain adopts what one could call the "Manchukuo model" of low-cost industrialization when it comes to its colonies here.

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

That’s what I meant, but in light of your point just have interested in the theatre and strike up a friendship with an actor.

This could work as well. I like this idea.

Indeed after consulting Wikipedia it seems that old school supporters went head to head with Victor Hugo new school in a clash of styles circa 1830. That seems pretty promising off hand.

Victory Hugo was apparently a committed Royalist in his Youth. HIs father was a radical and an atheist while his mother was a devout Catholic and a Legitimist. Though Hugo started drifting towards Republicanism in the 1830's when he started to gain prominence. With some of the divergences I'm planning for this timeline, he could very well end up as a Bonapartist instead. Certain "things" might happen that may make Republicanism seem like a less viable political ideology. If he does end up as a Bonapartist, I could imagine Hugo becoming a Bonapartist analogue to Virgil/Maecenas under Emperor Augustus.

Though with Hugo's more liberal politics he could probably end up as a prominent member of the more liberal faction in Imperial politics. This might cause some issues with Napoleon's more conservative philosophy thanks to the influence of his grandfather and the Austrian Court.

Imagine the propaganda that Napoleon II could churn out with someone like Victor Hugo on his side. That would probably be quite a boon to him.

Very interesting. I look forward to the second overthrow of the Bourbons

That's coming in a bit. I plan on focusing later on to the Americas and Italy during the 1810's/1820's. There was a series of Revolutions going on during that time period as well. Still the Lily's Twilight will be quite a consequential event in French history.

I wonder how Spain's colonial empire would be impacted by this industrialization? I was thinking that Spain adopts what one could call the "Manchukuo model" of low-cost industrialization when it comes to its colonies here.

What do you mean by Manchukuo Model? This is the first I'm hearing of this. Do you think this type of model is something for a Spanish ruled Philippines or something?

How do you envision this working for some of its other colonies like New Spain for example. Mexico even with its much reduced sized compared to Nueva Espana, still is pretty resource rich.

 

[Whiteshore]

What do you mean by Manchukuo Model? This is the first I'm hearing of this. Do you think this type of model is something for a Spanish ruled Philippines or something?

How do you envision this working for some of its other colonies like New Spain for example. Mexico even with its much reduced sized compared to Nueva Espana, still is pretty resource rich.

The Manchukuo model refers to what Japan did in Manchuria during the period that it was under Japanese control where the Japanese industrialized Manchuria through brutal means with private industry being directed by the state to increase industrial production and exploitation of resources, even at a high cost of the lives of "expendable" colonial subjects. As for where I imagine such a system to be implemented, well, I would say Mexico/New Spain would be where such a system would be implemented.

 

[da Racontor]

[snip]

That's coming in a bit. I plan on focusing later on to the Americas and Italy during the 1810's/1820's. There was a series of Revolutions going on during that time period as well. Still the Lily's Twilight will be quite a consequential event in French history.

[snip]

I expect that it will be like ripping off a Band-Aid. And despite my affinity for the Bourbons it will be well worth it,

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

The Manchukuo model refers to what Japan did in Manchuria during the period that it was under Japanese control where the Japanese industrialized Manchuria through brutal means with private industry being directed by the state to increase industrial production and exploitation of resources, even at a high cost of the lives of "expendable" colonial subjects. As for where I imagine such a system to be implemented, well, I would say Mexico/New Spain would be where such a system would be implemented.

Well I'm not sure that this is entirely suitable for place like Mexico and Spain's other colonies. If it manages to retain its colonies, there'll still be a demand for political reform that the Bourbons will have to address.

I expect that it will be like ripping off a Band-Aid. And despite my affinity for the Bourbons it will be well worth it,

I don't really hate the Bourbons either tbh. Though I've personally found Napoleon and the French Empire to be a bit cooler than the Kingdom of France. Still I think you'll like what I have planned for Henri V and the House of Bourbon later down the line.

 

[Niegel]

Guys I think I found this TL's Reddit ⊙_⊙

https://www.reddit.com/r/imaginarymaps/comments/gxc2w1

 

[Whiteshore]

Guys I think I found this TL's Reddit ⊙_⊙

https://www.reddit.com/r/imaginarymaps/comments/gxc2w1

Well, this is an interesting teaser of things to come. I sure am excited to see what @Basileus_Komnenos is planning right now.