Impact of fully adopted and reliable 20mm in BoB

Anderman

Donor
Now the HS 404 not only was it a development of the earlier Oerlikon guns but it and its design was well known to the British and ultimately its technical drawings are far more likely to be available earlier than the German and Russian Weapons ever would be.

Unlike earlier Hispano-Suiza gun the HS.404 is not based on the Oerlikons guns

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispano-Suiza_HS.404#From_Oerlikon_to_Hispano

The HS.404 is gas operated. The Oerlikons are API blow back operated

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oerlikon_20_mm_cannon
 
Regarding conflicting data, I've recently read from a reasonable looking source that the 23mm Madsens installed in the Fokker G.1 were installed in the wings. They were, in fact in the nose.

Birkigt set about to design his cannon based on his experience with the Oerlikon, and based on his intentions to improve on it. The interpretation is up to you.
 
With the introduction of cannon armed fighters, Fighter command will be forced to have a good hard look to harmonizing the combination of cannon and MG’s. Perhaps this will butterfly away the Dowding spread and improve the ratio of damaged EA to destroyed.
 
The impact of adopting the 20mm Hispano is probably going to be negligible in 1940. The job of the RAF was not to shoot down LW bombers and fighters but to survive intact and make an invasion impossible. A few more or less lost planes and dead aircrew doesnt alter the end result and may not even alter the timing as politics probably had more to do with the beginning and ending dates of the BOB.
 

hipper

Banned
The impact of adopting the 20mm Hispano is probably going to be negligible in 1940. The job of the RAF was not to shoot down LW bombers and fighters but to survive intact and make an invasion impossible. A few more or less lost planes and dead aircrew doesnt alter the end result and may not even alter the timing as politics probably had more to do with the beginning and ending dates of the BOB.

20 mm cannons increase the loss rate of bombers which speeds up the crisis point for the Luftwaffe. It brobably means the daylight bombing of London starts sooner.
 

Wimble Toot

Banned
The job of the RAF was not to shoot down LW bombers and fighters but to survive intact and make an invasion impossible.

a)Which it does, by shooting down Luftwaffe bombers before they bomb RAF airfields.

b) Shooting down Luftwaffe fighters makes it easier for non-cannon armed Spits and Hurris to achieve a)

c) See a)
 
300lys3.jpg

One interesting sidelight was this cannon-armed Lizzie.
 
a)Which it does, by shooting down Luftwaffe bombers before they bomb RAF airfields.
Which the Luftwaffe was singulary crap at. They managed to shut Manston down for a short while but that was because it was on a cliff and was about 26 miles from the nearest LW base. I dont think they ever shut down any fighter fields because thats what they were fields. Sir theres a bomb crater in the middle of the field, Ok Corporal tell the chaps not to land on that bit of the extremely large grass field we have available to land on.

b) Shooting down Luftwaffe fighters makes it easier for non-cannon armed Spits and Hurris to achieve a)
I thought the cannons were for the bombers, 8 Brownings was plenty against a 109


c) See a)
See a
 
I thought the cannons were for the bombers, 8 Brownings was plenty against a 109
Conventional wisdom says yes and I do agree with you however if you decisively win the fighter war 8 Brownings is enough to kill bombers too. You only need cannons when you are limited to one pass.
 

Wimble Toot

Banned
Which the Luftwaffe was singularly crap at.

So why did the OC Biggin Hill go to the extreme lengths of dynamiting the two remaining hangars at Biggin to make the Germans think it was out of action? (It worked)

Even so the damage was so great only one squadron could operate at one time, and the Sector Ops Room was moved to Butchers Shop in the village.
 

hipper

Banned
So why did the OC Biggin Hill go to the extreme lengths of dynamiting the two remaining hangars at Biggin to make the Germans think it was out of action? (It worked)

Even so the damage was so great only one squadron could operate at one time, and the Sector Ops Room was moved to Butchers Shop in the village.

The Hangers acted as targets for the Germans to bomb, they made it easy to find the airfield
 
So why did the OC Biggin Hill go to the extreme lengths of dynamiting the two remaining hangars at Biggin to make the Germans think it was out of action? (It worked)

Even so the damage was so great only one squadron could operate at one time, and the Sector Ops Room was moved to Butchers Shop in the village.

The LW went all out to destroy Biggin Hill, between Sept 1st and sept 7th it could only operate one squadron. The other Squadrons were moved to other Sector control and flew from satelite fields. Not much show for a lot of activity.
 

hipper

Banned
Building empty hangers nearby would have been better, and keep aircraft under netting

The aircraft were dispersed around the perimeter and serviced in the same place. Building empty hangers would have been a diversion of manpower.
 
The aircraft were dispersed around the perimeter and serviced in the same place. Building empty hangers would have been a diversion of manpower.

Gives a nice worthless target for the Luftwaffe to expend bombs on.
Well worth the lumber and time. Just needs to be strong enough not to blow over in a stiff wind
 
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