Impact of a smaller but more stable Spanish empire.

As it says on the tin, we all know the Spanish empire was too big to colonize with much of northern Mexico uninhabited along so what is the impact of a Spanish empire that stays small putting most of there effort into dominating the Carribean and its adjacent areas.
  • What becomes of the Inca if Spain does not colonize western South America.
  • Likewise, what happens to the pueblo indians long term and the other lands of northwestern and greater mexico without spanish colonies.
  • Finally what impact is this likely to have outside of the new world.
 
As it says on the tin, we all know the Spanish empire was too big to colonize with much of northern Mexico uninhabited along so what is the impact of a Spanish empire that stays small putting most of there effort into dominating the Carribean and its adjacent areas.
  • What becomes of the Inca if Spain does not colonize western South America.
  • Likewise, what happens to the pueblo indians long term and the other lands of northwestern and greater mexico without spanish colonies.
  • Finally what impact is this likely to have outside of the new world.

The Spanish Empire was doing pretty well until Napoleon invaded the heartland and trashed the place. I'm not sure if it's really possible with the technology of the era to get a more stable colonial empire.

I mean, they outdid the Brits and all of the empires produced in the second age of imperialism. What more can you ask for?

As far as dominating the Caribbean, that mainly depends on whether they are successful or not. If they can keep the rest of Europe out of the sea, the major region of sugar and tobacco production remains under their control, which would be very profitable, they deny bases to pirates and privateers, which also is good for them, and the Dutch, British and French are denied their most valuable colonial acquisitions. The industrial revolution is probably delayed because Britain has less capital.

The loss of northern Mexico is probably bad for Spain, since it means Amerind raiders are closer to the heart of Mexico.

I'm unsure if the Inca can keep going for much longer even if the Spanish don't decapitate their state. But the Andean region may be able to avoid colonization until the 19th Century and the second era of European colonialism...

Without Spain in South America, Portugal and England likely are more active in the continent.

fasquardon
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
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What becomes of the Inca if Spain does not colonize western South America.

Inca or successor Andean native states evolving and surviving until 19th century colonialism

Likewise, what happens to the pueblo indians long term and the other lands of northwestern and greater mexico without spanish colonies.

The Pueblo and other Amerindians from northern Mexico to California to Texas are in self-governing groups, probably getting sheep, goats and horses later, not yolked to Spanish missions and deal more with whites for fur trading later.

Long, long term, Anglo colonization is probable eventually. Cannot rule out a French, Dutch or Russian presence though.

Finally what impact is this likely to have outside of the new world.

Less silver for the Spanish government, with short term bad effects and maybe longer term good effects. Hungary and Bohemia may do better in an altered silver market. Of course Andean precious metals will still be acquired, but the Spanish and others will need to provide articles of interest to trade with the Andeans.

If successful in holding more of the Caribbean, Spain gets more sugar revenue, but they may never produce as efficiently as the Dutch, British or French plantation systems. Spanish crafts and manufactures could benefit from supporting Spanish plantations and making goods for the Andean market.

I think there are going to be limits to how much of the Caribbean Spain can hold however. A focused defense could theoretically help preserve Spanish rule in Jamaica and even more so in Hispaniola, denying the French a spot there. However, I think that holding every little last bit of the Antilles, especially the Lesser ones, is not too likely - the value of defending and holding each and every small island, especially in the eastern Caribbean/Lesser Antilles for Spain, is less than the value to England, France or the Netherlands or Denmark of getting a couple plantation-able Caribbean islands of their own. The Lesser Antilles, and even Trinidad, are more exposed to the Atlantic.

Spanish efforts focused on the Caribbean, unless they are a total fail, should preempt at least the British enterprises in Belize and the Miskito coast in Central America.

Florida meets the definition of "near the Caribbean". Maybe if not attempting to go to northern Mexico, the Spanish will do more with St. Augustine and Pensacola in Florida.
 

SwampTiger

Banned
The Spanish expanded into the Americas to search for more riches initially. Later, they began establishing defenses on the fringes of the continents to deny the gold and silver producing areas to other Europeans. Thus St. Augustine, Buenos Aires, the larger Caribbean isles Cartagena and Panama were primarily defensive colonies by 1600. The northern expeditions and the drive into montaine South America were driven by greed for more ore.

How will you stop a bunch of poor farmers and herders from rushing into the ore fields? How will you stop the Crown from defending its golden and silver geese? The Brazilian banderiente were scouring the interior for similar reasons. Early English and Dutch colonies had difficulty keeping the colonists from wandering off into the bush. How far did French and English fur traders reach into the interior?

I will not say this is impossible, but it is extremely hard. Add in the aggressive crusading spirit of the Reconquista and the Spanish Crown will suffer revolts if it tries to stop expansion.
 
The better smaller Spanish Empire is to not acquire the Habsburg inheritance. How much better off Spain would be because of the lack of the Dutch Revolt and the focus would remain in the Mediterranean?
 

SwampTiger

Banned
The better smaller Spanish Empire is to not acquire the Habsburg inheritance. How much better off Spain would be because of the lack of the Dutch Revolt and the focus would remain in the Mediterranean?

This is probably the best alternative. The multiple and constant wars of the Hapsburgs drained the Imperial treasury. The Spanish hidalgos were more than able to bankrupt themselves without this help. The wars of the Reformation added to these problems by spilling across the seas.
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
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The Spanish expanded into the Americas to search for more riches initially. Later, they began establishing defenses on the fringes of the continents to deny the gold and silver producing areas to other Europeans. Thus St. Augustine, Buenos Aires, the larger Caribbean isles Cartagena and Panama were primarily defensive colonies by 1600. The northern expeditions and the drive into montaine South America were driven by greed for more ore.

How will you stop a bunch of poor farmers and herders from rushing into the ore fields? How will you stop the Crown from defending its golden and silver geese? The Brazilian banderiente were scouring the interior for similar reasons. Early English and Dutch colonies had difficulty keeping the colonists from wandering off into the bush. How far did French and English fur traders reach into the interior?

I will not say this is impossible, but it is extremely hard. Add in the aggressive crusading spirit of the Reconquista and the Spanish Crown will suffer revolts if it tries to stop expansion.

Well Peru would be a continual draw. If it is possible to defeat within the 1500s or early 1600s, Spain will likely do it eventually. If the Andean polities manage to hold off the Spanish, maybe that cuts off Spanish expansion south of the equator in South America, but not in North America.

---But, even with precious metal fever, I think its imaginable to have Spain grab the Caribbean and Mexico, but neglect to expand north of the Sonoran desert, or to Florida, and for it to grab the gold and silver of Peru and northern Chile, but neglecting eastern Bolivia, Paraguay, Argentina and Uruguay. So a more compact New World Spanish Empire just less extensive at its southern and northern extremes.
 
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