Illyrian Empire

Magical123

Banned
Okay so in the 5th through 3rd centuries BC is it possible to have an empire emerge from Illyria?

Conquer both Italy, southern Germania and Greece/Balkans? Project power as far as the Rhine and the modern German/polish border?

Is this possible?
 
The Illyrian tribes are interesting because they had just about all the makings of an empire. They had the Romans, Greeks, Celtics and Balkan peoples (Thracians and Dacians) on their borders. The Illyrian tribes with that many military influences could have probably created the greatest military of the ancient world.

Now, this is the biggest problem, the Illyrians never felt like a united people. The fact is, there was no "Illyrian people" as far as we can tell. There were Thracian tribes, Celtic tribes, Hellenized Tribes native to the land we call Illyria, but there was no "Illyrian people". So, first you would need someone who sees all of these tribes as one people, or maybe a Hellenized Illyrian tribal leader that just wants to make a name for himself. Once you have your conquer then you have yourself an Empire. As I said, the Illyrians had everything they needed to be an ancient power they just didn't because such an empire would unfortunately not hold for long.

So, is it possible, yes. You just need a strong visionary leader. But, conquering as far as you're saying, likely not. Unless somehow an Alexander the Great character comes out of Illyria then at the most this Illyrian Empire would conquer Illyria, Thrace, Dacia and probably a few Celtic tribes north of Illyria. It's hard to say how stable this empire would be though.
 

Magical123

Banned
The Illyrian tribes are interesting because they had just about all the makings of an empire. They had the Romans, Greeks, Celtics and Balkan peoples (Thracians and Dacians) on their borders. The Illyrian tribes with that many military influences could have probably created the greatest military of the ancient world.

Now, this is the biggest problem, the Illyrians never felt like a united people. The fact is, there was no "Illyrian people" as far as we can tell. There were Thracian tribes, Celtic tribes, Hellenized Tribes native to the land we call Illyria, but there was no "Illyrian people". So, first you would need someone who sees all of these tribes as one people, or maybe a Hellenized Illyrian tribal leader that just wants to make a name for himself. Once you have your conquer then you have yourself an Empire. As I said, the Illyrians had everything they needed to be an ancient power they just didn't because such an empire would unfortunately not hold for long.

So, is it possible, yes. You just need a strong visionary leader. But, conquering as far as you're saying, likely not. Unless somehow an Alexander the Great character comes out of Illyria then at the most this Illyrian Empire would conquer Illyria, Thrace, Dacia and probably a few Celtic tribes north of Illyria. It's hard to say how stable this empire would be though.
Could an unified "Illyrian" identity emerge?
 
Could an unified "Illyrian" identity emerge?

Absolutely, you just need a leader who can unite the tribes. I think a great example would be Vercingetorix. He was one of the very few if not the only man who could have united the Gaulic tribes. Give the Illyrians a common enemy and a leader like Vercingetorix who looks past the petty tribal differences then all this different people will unite. The question then comes, first, who is the common enemy, second how long will these people(s) remain united. Who the common enemy is will effect how long these people remain united.
 

Magical123

Banned
Absolutely, you just need a leader who can unite the tribes. I think a great example would be Vercingetorix. He was one of the very few if not the only man who could have united the Gaulic tribes. Give the Illyrians a common enemy and a leader like Vercingetorix who looks past the petty tribal differences then all this different people will unite. The question then comes, first, who is the common enemy, second how long will these people(s) remain united. Who the common enemy is will effect how long these people remain united.
I mean Illyria really is in a strategic position not far from the Aegean and right on the Adriatic, you have mountains and forests for defense in depth trading oppurtunities that very easily could have made them rich.

Not to mention a lot of manpower.
 
I mean Illyria really is in a strategic position not far from the Aegean and right on the Adriatic, you have mountains and forests for defense in depth trading oppurtunities that very easily could have made them rich.

Not to mention a lot of manpower.

See and that's a great point. Who the Illyrian people are will be defined by their geographical zone. If this hypothetical leader unites the Illyrians he will likely not expand past the Sar Mountains until he can secure and stabilize the newly united tribes. Even then the mountains and the forests around Illyria will be used as a natural defense against the Thracians to the east, the Celts to the North and of course the Romans to the west. This united Illyria will have a weakeness South though will no natural defenses, so this hypothetical leader who actually now thinking about it likely go South into Greece if he intends to create an empire.
 

Deleted member 97083

Absolutely, you just need a leader who can unite the tribes. I think a great example would be Vercingetorix. He was one of the very few if not the only man who could have united the Gaulic tribes. Give the Illyrians a common enemy and a leader like Vercingetorix who looks past the petty tribal differences then all this different people will unite. The question then comes, first, who is the common enemy, second how long will these people(s) remain united. Who the common enemy is will effect how long these people remain united.
How cool would it be if Vercingetorix united Gaul, Noricum, and then Illyria into one empire?
 

Magical123

Banned
Couldn't a strong and shrewd Illyrian king clientilize eastern Italy and Balkanize or vassalize Greece?

If they ever developed anything resembling a navy they could get all the way to Crimea, eastern Italy and Turkey.
 
How cool would it be if Vercingetorix united Gaul, Noricum, and then Illyria into one empire?

That would be awesome. That Empire would be massive though, Vercingetorix wouid have to become an Alexander the Great type of figure to unite that much land. The way I could think he could do it, unite the Gauls, take Roman technology, reform Gaulic society, attack a now humiliated and unstable Rome, sack Rome, unite the other Celtic tribes and finally just start conquering what ever he wants.

Realistically as long as Vercingetorix could take and use the Roman unstableness to his advantage then the only problem he would have would be the Germanic tribes. Vercingetorix might even just try to ignore then, not make the mistake the Romans made.
 
Couldn't a strong and shrewd Illyrian king clientilize eastern Italy and Balkanize or vassalize Greece?

If they ever developed anything resembling a navy they could get all the way to Crimea, eastern Italy and Turkey.

Maybe, the Celts are a people of strength. If this leader shows the Alps Celts that he is worthy of his imperial ambitions then they will unite behind him, also at the same time stopping Rome from going North. Which creates a hole heap of interesting alternate histories.

As long as this leader established an Illyrian identity then yes he could Balkanize the Greeks, or at least side will some of the bigger powers essentially using them as puppet states, and conquering the other Greek city-states.

Oh and yes, a navy is completely possible. The Illyrians were already known for being pirates, so they obviously knew something about ships and sailing.
 
Top