Heh, always interesting how Alt-Alt-History works in the other timeline. Nice chapter!
If You Can Keep It: A Revolutionary Timeline
- Thread starter Fed
- Start date
Oof, this is embarassing.
You're absolutely right, regarding the Monroe thing; Crawford makes a lot of sense.
The Jefferson thing was something I tried to handwave away, but I do agree it doesn't make sense. I'm gonna switch the map so that a few more electors vote for the Hamilton/Jay ticket but it's gonna take a bit for me to think how that's gonna make sense since I don't think New England electors will switch from voting Adams.
Love that the biggest quip about this timeline so far is Electoral College shenanigans since the pre-1800 Electoral College makes absolutely no sense for me. Sorry for the inconveniences :S
You're absolutely right, regarding the Monroe thing; Crawford makes a lot of sense.
The Jefferson thing was something I tried to handwave away, but I do agree it doesn't make sense. I'm gonna switch the map so that a few more electors vote for the Hamilton/Jay ticket but it's gonna take a bit for me to think how that's gonna make sense since I don't think New England electors will switch from voting Adams.
Love that the biggest quip about this timeline so far is Electoral College shenanigans since the pre-1800 Electoral College makes absolutely no sense for me. Sorry for the inconveniences :S
You don't necessarily have to have Crawford as VP. Since Madison is a southerner, it probably makes more sense for him to pick a northern VP like George Clinton or Elbridge Gerry like he did OTL. There's also a lot of other potential VPs you could look into.
Anyways, this is awesome and I can't wait to see what happens next!
Thanks! I must say DBWIs in TLs are my weakness, haha. Love thinking what the perspectives of the world might be!
Clinton makes a bit more sense with where I'm going.
Now that I think of it, the reason why I had Jefferson claim the Presidency was the fact that Jefferson refused to accept that the Virginia slate was valid, instead determining that his own slate of electors would vote Democrat, giving him the Presidency (as happened OTL). This... peculiar turn of events (which in my defense I thought of in 2018 hahahah) doesn't make a lot of sense with the line that states that Jefferson refused to be sworn as vice-President, and neither does the fact that the Compromise of 1803 results in Jefferson being elected President without him holding any Federal office, so the maps have been changed. Sorry for the confusion there :/
Chapter XI - The Tide Turns
To the Iroquois Confederacy of Indians in the Great Lakes
MY FRIENDS, I have long viewed your condition with great interest and concern. In government and out of it in New York, I have long known your people and your customs. I ask you to listen to me once again, as you and your forefathers have listened to us before.
You are in the midst of a White population. Long have they encroached on your land, taking what is ancestrally yours and leaving only a small remnant for you and the Spirits you believe in. Your people, uneducated in the Western ways, have taken to violence and intoxication. Your great lands have been fenced off, and you have been confined to reservations, without any major room for growth.
Others have advised you to sell the rest of your lands, to move west, to integrate into society. But I know and respect your customs, and I desire for you to remain in your lands. To allow you to do so, I ask you for one thing: to join your Indian brothers in rebellion.
The government currently illegitimately sitting on Philadelphia is a government that will attack your customs at every time. My legitimate government, will, instead, allow you to live by yourself if you so wish, representing your people’s desires. We fought for our land a few years ago; now it is your time to join your brothers and fight for yours.”
“‘In consequence of the late and disgraceful conduct by the American Navy and their continued trade with the French Empire, you may, should you judge it advisable, permit the Royal Navy and our forts in Upper Canada to open fire upon the United States Forces, and declare a State of War between the two countries, with the express intent of bringing Burr to the Presidency.’
Through this message, delivered to Governor-General George Prevost by Prime Minister Lord Liverpool, British intervention in Burr’s rebellion was assured. By early 1812, British troops had arranged for landings in Savannah, Georgia, and Boston, Massachusetts - thus bringing a colossal amount of firepower to the Burrite forces.
The Battle of Savannah started in November of 1811, and was a historically scarring moment in the history of the young United States. The town, which was a fundamental part of the South’s economy, faced not just a blockade but a massive bombing attack by sectors of the Royal Navy, and a landing of a large force of redcoats. Savannah was practically levelled - with most forces in the American South basically obliterated, Georgia was almost fully occupied.”
-”British Interference in Domestic Affairs in America, 1800-1850”. By Carl Laurens. Published in Freedom Editorials, Savannah, Georgia.
MY FRIENDS, I have long viewed your condition with great interest and concern. In government and out of it in New York, I have long known your people and your customs. I ask you to listen to me once again, as you and your forefathers have listened to us before.
You are in the midst of a White population. Long have they encroached on your land, taking what is ancestrally yours and leaving only a small remnant for you and the Spirits you believe in. Your people, uneducated in the Western ways, have taken to violence and intoxication. Your great lands have been fenced off, and you have been confined to reservations, without any major room for growth.
Others have advised you to sell the rest of your lands, to move west, to integrate into society. But I know and respect your customs, and I desire for you to remain in your lands. To allow you to do so, I ask you for one thing: to join your Indian brothers in rebellion.
The government currently illegitimately sitting on Philadelphia is a government that will attack your customs at every time. My legitimate government, will, instead, allow you to live by yourself if you so wish, representing your people’s desires. We fought for our land a few years ago; now it is your time to join your brothers and fight for yours.”
-Aaron Burr
“‘In consequence of the late and disgraceful conduct by the American Navy and their continued trade with the French Empire, you may, should you judge it advisable, permit the Royal Navy and our forts in Upper Canada to open fire upon the United States Forces, and declare a State of War between the two countries, with the express intent of bringing Burr to the Presidency.’
Through this message, delivered to Governor-General George Prevost by Prime Minister Lord Liverpool, British intervention in Burr’s rebellion was assured. By early 1812, British troops had arranged for landings in Savannah, Georgia, and Boston, Massachusetts - thus bringing a colossal amount of firepower to the Burrite forces.
The Battle of Savannah started in November of 1811, and was a historically scarring moment in the history of the young United States. The town, which was a fundamental part of the South’s economy, faced not just a blockade but a massive bombing attack by sectors of the Royal Navy, and a landing of a large force of redcoats. Savannah was practically levelled - with most forces in the American South basically obliterated, Georgia was almost fully occupied.”
-”British Interference in Domestic Affairs in America, 1800-1850”. By Carl Laurens. Published in Freedom Editorials, Savannah, Georgia.
Hey, thank you both so much! I'm really happy you've enjoyed it so far
An animated map of Burr's Rebellion.
“The tide, which was turning in favor of the stronger, better-armed American army, turned once again after the British and Iroquois joined in favor of Burr, as it permitted an expansion of the battle lines to a territory where Burr was more or less popular. Even though the State governments soon declared an abandonment of neutrality, British incursions and local non-cooperation with the states' National Guards implied that soon enough most of New England fell to British attacks. British troops landed at Boston while marching down from Canada, soon cutting off Vermont and New Hampshire from the rest of the United States; to the south, only Connecticut and Rhode Island held out against the ensuing storm.
An American painting shows a conflict between Iroquois, Burrites and the New York National Guard in Upstate New York. Despite the wide support to Burrism in New York, and the Iroquois rebellion, the New York theater was mostly a way to drain troops from the rest of the United States to the central government.
New York was luckier in that its main enemy would be the Haudenosaunee. Most of the state's lakeside territory was rendered useless by Iroquois attacks, meaning that the National Guard was bogged down in fighting the Iroquois and could not help the Federal Government. On the other hand, the city of New York itself, despite then (as well as now) having been considered the capital of the Burrite movement, did not experience any major fighting throughout the war. This would be a general trend in the Mid-Atlantic States, whose coastal territories did not suffer major conflict other than occasional British incursions and a naval blockade. This would entail that the Mid-Atlantic would start to greatly grow in comparison to the rest of the United States, as the region was seen as relatively peaceful in an increasingly unstable United States.
In the south, things were also looking relatively dreary for the Union government. The fall of Savannah had completely cut the supply lines in Carolinian territory; Andrew Jackson's troops, which had been more or less effective in holding off the Founding Tribes of Sequoyah, were now forced to move east towards the seaboard, to defend from British incursions the territory of South Carolina, Jackson's home state. Eventually, recovery of lost land in Tennessee (with moderate Spanish help in frontier areas) also meant that the entirety of the states of Kentucky and Tennessee became occupied by Burr’s allies.
Slave rebellions as news of Burr’s army promising freedom to blacks who fought for him meant that much of South Carolina and Virginia also began facing rebellion from the US government. Soon, although most slave rebellions were pushed back, the frontlines covered most of the South. Even those plantations that managed to beat back slave rebellions suffered tremendous economical losses, either by direct damage of the plantations by the rebelling slaves or by the British blockade against cotton, which had the double intent of greatly weakening the American cotton industry and fortifying the rival Egyptian and Mississippi cotton industries, more favorable to British interests.
The Election of 1812 was very representative of the situation. Madison was elected almost unanimously by the Electoral College, by the State delegations that were not occupied by Burrite-British troops at the time (or, in the case of Wabash, continued to declare neutrality).
In Philadelphia, the Republican government was left reeling by the change in situations. After all, the rebellion initially seemed just like a native uprising with a few thousand slaves and poor whites taking advantage of the chaos to wreck havoc on the territory. However, the entry of the British (and to a degree, the Spanish) to the conflict and the rapid change of frontlines made it apparent for the United States government (reelected almost unanimously, again, in 1812) that no victory would be easy for either side, and that Burr had a strong chance at winning. Soon, they came to the negotiating table.
It is to be admitted of Madison’s negotiating tactics - they were brilliant. Burr had the chance to ask for everything he wanted - instead, a Compromise was born, the Compromise of 1813. Both sides lost a lot of what they wanted, but still came out mostly happy, in a situation that is reminiscent of the previous Compromise of 1803. In the side of Burr and his rebels, there were significant reforms promised by the Democratic-Republicans:
- The admission of three new States for Natives and freed Blacks: Indiana (in the southern half of Indiana Territory), Mississippi (in its northern half) and Muscogee (in the northwestern part of Georgia),
- The recognition, in the State Constitutions of certain States, of Native judicial autonomy - the creation of separately Native courts in which local languages could be used,
- The allowance of some limits to the free movements of settlers within the new States,
- The recognition of freedom for those black soldiers that fought in Burr’s sides, and amnesty for all rebels.
On the other hand, the Democratic-Republicans managed some strong concessions:
- Burr’s admittance of Madison and Clinton as the legitimate Executive Branch of the United States Federal Government,
- Respect for slavery in States that wished to retain it, as per the Constitution,
- States that did not recognise native judicial autonomy were allowed to expel their Natives to the Native states,
- The United Kingdom would gain no land from the country,
- Tecumseh’s Indian Confederacy would be dissolved into the State government of Indiana
Much like the Compromise of 1803 was a moral victory for the Jeffersonian side, this Compromise was a moral victory for the Burrites - who gained a lot while standing the most to lose.
The Compromise’s provisions were accepted by Congress in 1814, despite the uproar of many of the more Madisonite elements of Congress. In fact, political historians consider that the uproar in Congress over the Compromise, and not the war itself, was the element which led to the dissolution of the Democratic-Republican Party. Those who agreed with Burr’s Compromise and voted for it created the Democratic Party, which would become the unmistakable party of the West - while those who opposed it became the Republicans, strong in the South.
-Excerpt from “Native Autonomy and Aaron Burr” by Charles Ridge. Published by Harvard University, 1978.
“The creation of juridical pluralism after Burr’s Rebellion was codified only in two State Constitutions - New York (which recognised political and judicial autonomy for the Haudenosaunee) and Ohio, plus, of course, the new State of Mississippi (Muscogee and Indiana instead created autonomous White law). This momentous occasion was one of the first creations of pluralism in terms of judicial systems and would later be explored deeply as one of the great exceptions that invalidate the concept of judicial positivism, by authors of sociological jurisprudence such as Charles Dworkin, Ronald Fuller and Antanas Sivickas.
Judicial pluralism in the United States became fundamentally important to any social observation of the system of government in the United States. It showed the nature of law as it is currently seen; not as the top-down imposition of a model of behavior by part of an apolitical authority but rather as a complex set of rules and procedures imposed by the dominant actors, which, when power is shared between differing cultures or political systems may vary very much. American law between 1812 and 1836 was seen as one of the more radical examples of judicial pluralism in the XIXth century, where a variety of local, state, Federal, ethnic and national courts saw plenty of competition and differences in the imposition of judicial policies.
-Excerpt from “Judicial Pluralism and the Early United States” by Carlos Alberto Tenorio. Published by the University of the Mississippi, New Orleans, and the University of Florida, San Agustín, 2013.
“There’s no denying it - the unifying factor that made the United States Constitution so much more resilient than the Articles of Confederation had broken down after the Compromise of 1813. Interstate provisions were radically altered with the limtation of free movement to white settlers in the Native states, while many white states started expelling all their native populations; Federal unity was shattered with the creation of State juridical pluralism. Burr’s Rebellion proved to everyone one thing - the Constitution was not to last.”
-Excerpt from “American History for Dummies”.
The State of Indiana retains strong ethnic diversity, based on its history, especially the circumstances following its birth as a State during Burr’s Rebellion. The three largest groups, Natives, Whites and Blacks, make up for 44.3%, 25.7% and 12.3% of the population, respectively, with great regional variation. The great waterways of the State (most notably the Tippecanoe River) are mostly White, based on the lack of restriction by part of State governments for White migrants to settle in the waterways connecting Ohio and Wabash, while the Mississippi River, the main waterway for most freed slaves, is plurality-black. The rest of the State is strongly Native, retaining local languages to a great degree.
Indiana, through different degrees of historical enforcement, has recognised twelve official (or at least government-use) languages: in order of percentage of households where the language is primarily used, these are English (35.5%), Standard Iroquois (15.5%), Shawnee (10.3%), Illinois (7.7%), Miami (7.2%), Catabwa (4.7%), Tutelo (4.5%), Potawatomi (4.3%), Erie (3.1%), Delaware (1.3%), Mahican (1.2%), and Abnaki (1%). A further 10% of people use a language not considered official - the most commonly spoken being French. Unlike the common monolingualism of most East Coast states, this diversity results in the fact that an overwhelming majority of Indianans (87%) speak at least two languages, while over half (54.7%) speak at least three.
The religious structure of the State of Indiana is complex, due to the historical tensions between several of the locals. The evolution of Native religion is of particular interest - Natives, swayed by the Great Prophet Tenskwatawa's teachings during Burr's Rebellion, resulted in the wholesale rejection of Christianity throughout Burr's War. Posterior to this, however, Christianity once again began growing in the State's Native population, integrating the teachings of Tenskwatawa to a diluted degree. To this day there's wide theological debate over whether the Red Sticks Church is a branch of Christianity or its own religion; estimates state that about 38% of Indianans belong to this faith, although less than a third are regular observers. Also popular, especially amongst white settlers, is Third Testamentism; the Religious Society of Friends is widely popular amongst white and black Indianans, and comprises the largest Mainline Protestant denomination in the State. Catholicism is also relatively popular, especially in the Mississippi Basin, while Judaism is common, especially in the sprawling State capital of Tecumseh, the Old West's second largest city, where Jewish people comprise 1.3% of the population.
Indeed, Indiana has a strong claim to being the most diverse State in the Union.
I fell in love again.
Akwé:wa, Akwé:wa.
Drove to Tecumseh.
All things know. All things know.
Akwé:wa, Akwé:wa.
Drove to Tecumseh.
All things know. All things know.
-Tecumseh, Lowell Stevens' first breakout single from his album Indiana, alternates mostly English songwriting with some excerpts in the native languages official in Indiana. The song, which alternates between being a hymn to Tecumseh, which provided a center of diversity and freedom while growing up nearby in a small town in Michigan, and a hymn to the Indian leader after which the city is named, is widely controversial in conservative circles, being banned on Carolinian radio stations; however, this didn't stop it from charting for twelve weeks nationwide when it came out in 2006.
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