If World War II Never Happened: A FIFA World Cup Timeline

Assuming 1954 is still set in Switzerland, wonder if 1958 will be different in which being set not in Europe but perhaps maybe a wildcard choice of Africa which the South American countries might accept that over two European held World cups much like with OTL over the reaction of Switzerland hosting it.

Question is where in Africa would you host it? Plus wonder if given how badly England and Scotland got thumped in Brazil that the idea of a Great Britain team competing might happen as 1950 is actually the very latest POD to happen not to mention that without WWII things are very different in British society so there could be a more togetherness here? Certainly a single Ireland team is possible if there is a British team going forward but alas you have your own thoughts on the TL for what you want.
 
Assuming 1954 is still set in Switzerland, wonder if 1958 will be different in which being set not in Europe but perhaps maybe a wildcard choice of Africa which the South American countries might accept that over two European held World cups much like with OTL over the reaction of Switzerland hosting it.

Question is where in Africa would you host it? Plus wonder if given how badly England and Scotland got thumped in Brazil that the idea of a Great Britain team competing might happen as 1950 is actually the very latest POD to happen not to mention that without WWII things are very different in British society so there could be a more togetherness here? Certainly a single Ireland team is possible if there is a British team going forward but alas you have your own thoughts on the TL for what you want.

Not likely. Pretty much the only place in Africa that might have the smallest shot of hosting a World Cup at this time would be Egypt, and even then they might not have enough stadia to make it.

But Switzerland certainly won't be elected without any competition like OTL. Presumably, England, Sweden, Hungary or Spain might be interested in hosting it as well.
 
Assuming 1954 is still set in Switzerland, wonder if 1958 will be different in which being set not in Europe but perhaps maybe a wildcard choice of Africa which the South American countries might accept that over two European held World cups much like with OTL over the reaction of Switzerland hosting it.

Question is where in Africa would you host it? Plus wonder if given how badly England and Scotland got thumped in Brazil that the idea of a Great Britain team competing might happen as 1950 is actually the very latest POD to happen not to mention that without WWII things are very different in British society so there could be a more togetherness here? Certainly a single Ireland team is possible if there is a British team going forward but alas you have your own thoughts on the TL for what you want.
I don't see why the 1958 World Cup would take place outside Europe in TTL. South America would be displeased, but that didn't stop Sweden's bid from winning in OTL thanks to diligent lobbying. The obvious non-European host candidate is Chile, as Argentina hosted TTL's 1942 World Cup.

Not likely. Pretty much the only place in Africa that might have the smallest shot of hosting a World Cup at this time would be Egypt, and even then they might not have enough stadia to make it.

But Switzerland certainly won't be elected without any competition like OTL. Presumably, England, Sweden, Hungary or Spain might be interested in hosting it as well.

This is also interesting in TTL. With England joining FIFA in time for the 1946 Congress (when the 1950 and 1954 World Cup hosting rights were awarded) and not being damaged by World War II, they may very well have launched a bid to organize the 1954 tournament.

Interesting butterflies. Definitely gonna continue this ATL beyond the 1954 World Cup as originally planned.
 
If there is no WW2 presumably British colonial drawdown is more like convert to dominion (West Indies, West Africa, India) and then let them govern themselves inside the Commonwealth structure- are we seeing a Commonwealth Federation (sorta EU) here?

Did Malta become part of the UK as they wanted to?

What about France’s holdings? They were governed as if they were France rathe than an Empire as such, without the Fall and the war is France having better luck holding on to its Departments?

French Indo-China- given up?
Dutch East Indies- given self-rule?

Without the war stresses did South Africa reject apartheid? It’s is certainly possible!

I ask all this because it changes who can play for each team. If France can call on all of N. Africa which star players can they pull into the national side for example.

A British Commonwealth will have its own sporting events which will see other players emerge. Which genius’ can the Dominion of West Africa produce?
I think decolonisation would have still happened without WW2, though possibly at different dates. It's certainly interesting to contemplate how strong France would be if they fielded players from OTL's 1982 Algerian side for example, but I think Algeria would still have become independent by then. Regardless, the players may be much less inclined to perform well for their colonial rulers, so it's possible it would be to the detriment of the French team. My point is that the difference in squad strength would be negligible even if decolonisation was delayed by a few years.

Also, it's impossible to speculate if England or France would have their own 'Eusebio's' (legendary Mozambique-born Portuguese player). Requires too many assumptions.

South Africa was so fundamentally racist that I think apartheid was inevitable at some point, even without the war. At best the absence of WW2 may have delayed it by a few years.

Could Japan host the 1956 World Cup? Or is it too soon?

What about Canada?

No answers to my other questions last page @NTF aka Seb?
It's too soon for Japan. They arguably had the stadium capacity, but their bid would not have stood a chance against one from Europe or South America. But I don't even know if football was remotely popular enough for them to be interested in bidding.

You're gonna have to be more specific with the Canada question. If you meant as a World Cup host, definitely not.
 
Also, it's impossible to speculate if England or France would have their own 'Eusebio's' (legendary Mozambique-born Portuguese player). Requires too many assumptions.

Larbi Ben Barek could have been one of those for France, but most of his career was within the war period. He was still playing in 1954 (by which point he was 37), but he wasn't called up then.

For England, it's less likely - the English colonies often had their own colonial teams, unlike the French ones. However, most of these colonial teams didn't join FIFA until independence.

And in any case, by the 50s, most call-ups were restricted to players that were playing in the countries in question and maybe the immediate vicinity.
 
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I suspect without WW2 British decolonisation would be a long slow process. There would not be the 'rush' to ditch colonies as per OTL due to the country not being skint, and without the American pressure to drop them which was very much as a result of Britain being dependent on the US post war, and the US flexing its woken muscles.

France is a different case, without WW2 I can see a lot more effort in keeping her departments, and thus making those players eligible for the French team, even Algeria.

WW2 changes so, so much regarding colonies and such it is hard to say, but it will certainly not be our world with our borders and countries.
 
I suspect without WW2 British decolonisation would be a long slow process. There would not be the 'rush' to ditch colonies as per OTL due to the country not being skint, and without the American pressure to drop them which was very much as a result of Britain being dependent on the US post war, and the US flexing its woken muscles.

France is a different case, without WW2 I can see a lot more effort in keeping her departments, and thus making those players eligible for the French team, even Algeria.

WW2 changes so, so much regarding colonies and such it is hard to say, but it will certainly not be our world with our borders and countries.

Also, there is the question of what happens to Japan - it's fairly clear that there won't be a Korean team playing in 1954, at least.

Relatedly, will the Soviet Union still enter the qualifications by 1958?
 
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Prelude to the 1954 FIFA World Cup
Part 10 - Emergency Exit
Prelude to the 1954 FIFA World Cup


Switzerland were awarded hosting rights at the 1946 FIFA Congress, beating out the Swedish bid due to the closer proximity of the venues [1]. Hungary and the Netherlands originally expressed interest in bidding, but withdrew before the official voting took place. The 1954 FIFA World Cup was played from 16 June to 10 July. Maintaining the previous format, the 16 participating teams were drawn into four groups of four, with each group winner and runner-up advancing to a knockout stage to decide the winner [2].

Cyprus entered the qualifiers for the first time, as did Iceland, whose previous entry was rejected. Neither qualified. Korea most notably beat India [3] and their recent colonial rulers Japan to make their debut [4]. Wales also made their maiden appearance at the tournament. France made a long overdue return, having failed to qualify for the three previous World Cups.


Withdrawal of Argentina
Argentina withdrew from the World Cup qualifiers due to political decisions by the Juan Peron government. The national team performing badly at the two preceding tournaments is also believed to have played a role in the withdrawal decision [5].

Refused Entry of Germany and Bohemia-Moravia
The racist policies in Germany and the Nazi-loyal Bohemia and Moravia, which among other things prohibited Jews from playing, showed no signs of stopping in the years that followed the 1950 World Cup. Subsequently, it was decided at the 1952 Helsinki FIFA Congress - where many representatives were of Jewish descent - that Germany and Bohemia-Moravia would not be allowed to enter the 1954 World Cup, prior to the qualifying draw. They were notably not fully suspended from FIFA, though.


Here are the groups! Let me know your predictions:
1954 groups real.png



1954 venues.jpg

Venues. Graphic created by jycee.

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[1] Sweden didn’t bid in OTL. Also, in a previous post, you’ll see I considered England a host option since they joined FIFA earlier in TTL and weren’t damaged by World War II. That’s no longer the case. When hosting rights were awarded in 1946, they hadn’t played at the World Cup and it’s possible they even considered it less important than the Home Championship. They would probably not have been interested.

[2] With the additional World Cups further establishing this format in TTL, it would most certainly have been maintained for the 1954 tournament. OTL’s format was really weird in that teams only played two matches in the group stage instead of a full round robin. There also wouldn't be extra time in the group stage matches.

[3] India's entry was rejected in OTL due to them withdrawing at the last minute for the 1950 World Cup.

[4] I think the Japanese Empire would have fallen before 1954 in OTL, even without World War II.

[5] Side note: South America has one more berth in TTL.
 
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[4] I think the Japanese Empire would have fallen before 1954 in OTL, even without World War II.

Still, I don't think that Korea would still be divided without World War II. In the wake of a successful Korean rebellion without World War II, you might get a civil war right after, but the same division as OTL does not look likely.
 
Still, I don't think that Korea would still be divided without World War II. In the wake of a successful Korean rebellion without World War II, you might get a civil war right after, but the same division as OTL does not look likely.
True.

United Korea?
 
just Korea.

Of course, what kind of government that would have is up in the air.
I meant 'united' as in there not being a 'North' and 'South' Korea, not the literal name.

The type of government is beside the point for this TL.

Will edit the post now. It makes the most sense if the Empire of Korea flag is used?
 
Part 10 - Emergency Exit
Prelude to the 1954 FIFA World Cup


Switzerland were awarded hosting rights at the 1946 FIFA Congress, beating out the Swedish bid due to the closer proximity of the venues [1]. Hungary and the Netherlands originally expressed interest in bidding, but withdrew before the official voting took place. The 1954 FIFA World Cup was played from 16 June to 10 July. Maintaining the previous format, the 16 participating teams were drawn into four groups of four, with each group winner and runner-up advancing to a knockout stage to decide the winner [2].

Cyprus entered the qualifiers for the first time, as did Iceland, whose previous entry was rejected. Neither qualified. South Korea most notably beat India [3] and their recent colonial rulers Japan to make their debut [4]. Wales also made their maiden appearance at the tournament. France made a long overdue return, having failed to qualify for the three previous World Cups.


Withdrawal of Argentina
Argentina withdrew from the World Cup qualifiers due to political decisions by the Juan Peron government. The national team performing badly at the two preceding tournaments is also believed to have played a role in the withdrawal decision [5].

Refused Entry of Germany and Bohemia-Moravia
The racist policies in Germany and the Nazi-loyal Bohemia and Moravia, which among other things prohibited Jews from playing, showed no signs of stopping in the years that followed the 1950 World Cup. Subsequently, it was decided at the 1952 Helsinki FIFA Congress - where many representatives were of Jewish descent - that Germany and Bohemia-Moravia would not be allowed to enter the 1954 World Cup, prior to the qualifying draw. They were notably not fully suspended from FIFA, though.


Here are the groups! Let me know your predictions:


—----------
[1] Sweden didn’t bid in OTL. Also, in a previous post, you’ll see I considered England a host option since they joined FIFA earlier in TTL and weren’t damaged by World War II. That’s no longer the case. When hosting rights were awarded in 1946, they hadn’t played at the World Cup and it’s possible they even considered it less important than the Home Championship. They would probably not have been interested.

[2] With the additional World Cups further establishing this format in TTL, it would most certainly have been maintained for the 1954 tournament. OTL’s format was really weird in that teams only played two matches in the group stage instead of a full round robin. There also wouldn't be extra time in the group stage matches.

[3] India's entry was rejected in OTL due to them withdrawing at the last minute for the 1950 World Cup.

[4] I think the Japanese Empire would have fallen before 1954 in OTL, even without World War II.

[5] Side note: South America has one more berth in TTL.
This TL is very good! I am really keen on reading more!. About Argentina, one good thing is that is kinda likely that the OTL "Swedish disaster" of 1958 won't happen due the isolation of Argentinian football is not deeper like the way it happened in OTL. I hope that some reglamentations can appear in order to avoid that young players as Sivori, Angelillo and Maschio won't be sold to european clubs after the 1957 Copa America.

Another point, but this is political, is that if there wasn't WW2 probably there won't be Perón either. Perhaps a populist one like Manuel Fresco o Robustiano Patrón Costas, but not so exaggerated as Peron was.

Nevertheless it was a shame that in 1954 Argentina didn't send or even attemped to qualify to the World Cup in OTL. Still, the national team was superior to Brazil, and to Uruguay. I'm not sure if that would have been enough to come out world champion, but maybe they would have put in a good performance
 
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Anyway, coming back to the topic, that seems like a open tournament right there - considering that it'd have the best players of half of the OTL semifinalists, Germany would have been a favourite if it had competed.
 
This TL is very good! I am really keen on reading more!. About Argentina, one good thing is that is kinda likely that the OTL "Swedish disaster" of 1958 won't happen due the isolation of Argentinian football is not deeper like the way it happened in OTL. I hope that some reglamentations can appear in order to avoid that young players as Sivori, Angelillo and Maschio won't be sold to european clubs after the 1957 Copa America.

Another point, but this is political, is that if there wasn't WW2 probably there won't be Perón either. Perhaps a populist one like Manuel Fresco o Robustiano Patrón Costas, but not so exaggerated as Peron was.

Nevertheless it was a shame that in 1954 Argentina didn't send or even attemped to qualify to the World Cup in OTL. Still, the national team was superior to Brazil, and to Uruguay
Thanks a lot. Always good to have your TL validated.

I went back and forth between Peron rising to power vs. not doing it. I ultimately decided yes, since he rose to power in OTL despite Argentina mostly remaining neutral in WW2. You can plausibly 'butterfly' him away with the absence of WW2, but one can do that with almost anything depending on what one wants to happen.

If I removed Peron and Argentina entered, some Brazilian might leave a similar comment as you but about how "Peron would have probably still risen to power, so Argentina wouldn't have entered".

There's a case for both sides and it's impossible to make everyone happy. I'm not used to having a TL this popular, so I'm noticing it now more than ever, which I guess is good in a way.
 

Coulsdon Eagle

Monthly Donor
Anyway, coming back to the topic, that seems like a open tournament right there - considering that it'd have the best players of half of the OTL semifinalists, Germany would have been a favourite if it had competed.
Hopefully Hungary will win the tournament that seemed to be theirs.
 
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