If World War II Never Happened: A FIFA World Cup Timeline

Argentina x Portugal
Spain x Soviet Union
Italy
x Netherlands
Brazil x Tunisia
Peru x Ireland
France x Austria
England x Germany
Poland x Scotland

Argentina will beat Portugal
Spains beats USSR
Italy beats Netherlands
Brazil blows away Tunisia
Ireland beats Peru
France beats Austria
England beats Germany
Poland beats Scotland

I suspect it’s Argentina vs Brazil in the Final.
Check out that bracket - Brazil and Argentina can only face each other in the semifinals.
 
It's sad that in this ATL, Argentina still had Perón and still had the 1976, it would have been a good oportunity to innovate here as you did with the rest of Europe. Second point, this of Argentina"playing with advantage" with the time of the match was for all locals the same until 82, because FIFA feared empty stadiums if they play at the same hour than the rest of the matches...it was the same in 1970 or 1974.

I hope you don't fall either in the "suspicious match" like the 6-0 against Peru...in this timeline
 

Pangur

Donor
Argentina beats Portugal
Spain beats USSR
Italy beats Netherlands
Brazil beats Tunisia
Ireland beats Peru AET and Penalties
France beats Austria
Germany beats England
Poland beats Scotland

Its so tempting to try and set up an England V Scotland game!
 
It's sad that in this ATL, Argentina still had Perón and still had the 1976, it would have been a good oportunity to innovate here as you did with the rest of Europe.
Unfortunately, I don't see anything in TTL that butterflies away Perón as I mentioned a while back, nor any other plausible hosts besides Argentina.
I don't "innovate" for fun, only if I genuinely think something would have happened.

Second point, this of Argentina"playing with advantage" with the time of the match was for all locals the same until 82, because FIFA feared empty stadiums if they play at the same hour than the rest of the matches...it was the same in 1970 or 1974.
This is only partially true. In 1970, Mexico played their opener first, but to be fair they did play the other two matches when the two parallel matches had finished, so you're kinda right about that.

However, in 1974, West Germany only played one match in the first group stage after the parallel match was over. And most crucially, West Germany only had such an advantage in one of the second group stage matches (and not even the most important final one).

There's no second group stage in this ATL, but if it was only about FIFA fearing empty stadiums in OTL, they could have switched kick-off times with matches so Argentina only had the advantage of knowing the result on one or two matchdays instead of all three, as with the 1974 World Cup.
 
Unfortunately, I don't see anything in TTL that butterflies away Perón as I mentioned a while back, nor any other plausible hosts besides Argentina.
I don't "innovate" for fun, only if I genuinely think something would have happened.


This is only partially true. In 1970, Mexico played their opener first, but to be fair they did play the other two matches when the two parallel matches had finished, so you're kinda right about that.

However, in 1974, West Germany only played one match in the first group stage after the parallel match was over. And most crucially, West Germany only had such an advantage in one of the second group stage matches (and not even the most important final one).

There's no second group stage in this ATL, but if it was only about FIFA fearing empty stadiums in OTL, they could have switched kick-off times with matches so Argentina only had the advantage of knowing the result on one or two matchdays instead of all three, as with the 1974 World Cup.
I understand that Argentina is a peripheral scenario in the World Wars, and this is a more an Eurocentric timeline, which is very good. But if there was no WW2 it is virtually impossible that Perón would have come to power, and it's not similar to the case of Getulio Vargas in Brazil, because Vargas comes to the fore before the war. In this case, there are Argentinians turning around in the forums, and we can be consulted if is that the case. Otherwise it falls into the old cliché of the forums about Argentina. "Perón", "Military coup", "Argentina loses a war, whatever the TL" it is.

The matter of the schedules in Argentina 78, was that two turns are played (which the television capacity allowed), for the comfort of the reception in Europe - 1:45 PM ART & 4.45PM ART, and the original schedule for Argentina was 6:00 p.m. but FIFA rejected in 1977 it with the argument that this could be counterproductive for the stadiums image for the broadcasts, and that the 4:45 p.m. shift could be disturbed by this issue (Mexico played in 1970 at 12:00 due the long distance of hours, compared to Argentina). In fact, FIFA, as you know, did not care too much about this matter until the "Disgrace de Gijón" in 1982.

They were more than anything my two cents, I really like your timeline, and there wasn't much to innovate with Argentina or Brazil... Perón is not here, and the rest is... different. Without Perón and his sequels in time, there is no coup of 1976 either.

Nevertheless, as I said before, I really enjoy your TL!
 
I understand that Argentina is a peripheral scenario in the World Wars, and this is a more an Eurocentric timeline, which is very good. But if there was no WW2 it is virtually impossible that Perón would have come to power, and it's not similar to the case of Getulio Vargas in Brazil, because Vargas comes to the fore before the war. In this case, there are Argentinians turning around in the forums, and we can be consulted if is that the case. Otherwise it falls into the old cliché of the forums about Argentina. "Perón", "Military coup", "Argentina loses a war, whatever the TL" it is.

The matter of the schedules in Argentina 78, was that two turns are played (which the television capacity allowed), for the comfort of the reception in Europe - 1:45 PM ART & 4.45PM ART, and the original schedule for Argentina was 6:00 p.m. but FIFA rejected in 1977 it with the argument that this could be counterproductive for the stadiums image for the broadcasts, and that the 4:45 p.m. shift could be disturbed by this issue (Mexico played in 1970 at 12:00 due the long distance of hours, compared to Argentina). In fact, FIFA, as you know, did not care too much about this matter until the "Disgrace de Gijón" in 1982.

They were more than anything my two cents, I really like your timeline, and there wasn't much to innovate with Argentina or Brazil... Perón is not here, and the rest is... different. Without Perón and his sequels in time, there is no coup of 1976 either.

Nevertheless, as I said before, I really enjoy your TL!
Yeah, like, Peron only took power since the coup happened exactly as a earthquake ruined a major city in Argentina and he had the luck to be the minister of Labour to get the credit from saving the locals. Even in scenarios were the coup does happen but in another date he probably won't take power.
 
I understand that Argentina is a peripheral scenario in the World Wars, and this is a more an Eurocentric timeline, which is very good. But if there was no WW2 it is virtually impossible that Perón would have come to power, and it's not similar to the case of Getulio Vargas in Brazil, because Vargas comes to the fore before the war. In this case, there are Argentinians turning around in the forums, and we can be consulted if is that the case. Otherwise it falls into the old cliché of the forums about Argentina. "Perón", "Military coup", "Argentina loses a war, whatever the TL" it is.
I've been over this previously in the thread:
"I went back and forth between Peron rising to power vs. not doing it. I ultimately decided yes, since he rose to power in OTL despite Argentina mostly remaining neutral in WW2. You can plausibly 'butterfly' him away with the absence of WW2, but one can do that with almost anything depending on what one wants to happen".

Most Argentinians will understandably want Perón butterflied away, but I don't think it's "virtually impossible" that he rises to power if WW2 never happened.
The risk of him doing so arguably decreases, but it's still a 50/50 for me, in which case I prefer to not change it from OTL.
But that's just the alternate history school of thought I follow. Other people have the mindset of "if it can be changed, change it".

The matter of the schedules in Argentina 78, was that two turns are played (which the television capacity allowed), for the comfort of the reception in Europe - 1:45 PM ART & 4.45PM ART, and the original schedule for Argentina was 6:00 p.m. but FIFA rejected in 1977 it with the argument that this could be counterproductive for the stadiums image for the broadcasts, and that the 4:45 p.m. shift could be disturbed by this issue (Mexico played in 1970 at 12:00 due the long distance of hours, compared to Argentina). In fact, FIFA, as you know, did not care too much about this matter until the "Disgrace de Gijón" in 1982.
Whatever the reason for the kick off times may have been, they were a cause for controversy, so it would have been weird if I neglected to mention that in the TL.
 
I understand that Argentina is a peripheral scenario in the World Wars, and this is a more an Eurocentric timeline, which is very good. But if there was no WW2 it is virtually impossible that Perón would have come to power, and it's not similar to the case of Getulio Vargas in Brazil, because Vargas comes to the fore before the war. In this case, there are Argentinians turning around in the forums, and we can be consulted if is that the case. Otherwise it falls into the old cliché of the forums about Argentina. "Perón", "Military coup", "Argentina loses a war, whatever the TL" it is.

The matter of the schedules in Argentina 78, was that two turns are played (which the television capacity allowed), for the comfort of the reception in Europe - 1:45 PM ART & 4.45PM ART, and the original schedule for Argentina was 6:00 p.m. but FIFA rejected in 1977 it with the argument that this could be counterproductive for the stadiums image for the broadcasts, and that the 4:45 p.m. shift could be disturbed by this issue (Mexico played in 1970 at 12:00 due the long distance of hours, compared to Argentina). In fact, FIFA, as you know, did not care too much about this matter until the "Disgrace de Gijón" in 1982.

They were more than anything my two cents, I really like your timeline, and there wasn't much to innovate with Argentina or Brazil... Perón is not here, and the rest is... different. Without Perón and his sequels in time, there is no coup of 1976 either.

Nevertheless, as I said before, I really enjoy your TL!

Also, there's the issue of what kind of dictadorship takes over even if there's a coup - i don't really think you'd have the same people coming up if, for example, Cuba doesn't go communist, which is not guaranteed by this POD.
 
Otherwise it falls into the old cliché of the forums about Argentina. "Perón", "Military coup", "Argentina loses a war, whatever the TL" it is.
Is that really a cliché nowadays? You have many wank-Argentina TLs, in fact recently I've seen many of them
Like Look to the West, The American System, These Fair Shores, Cinco de Mayo, A New World Wreathed in Freedom, Miranda's Dream and A Few Acres of Snow.
Even me, a Brazilian alt-history fan, have seen more Argentina-wank TLs here than Brazil-wanks.
But that's beside the point.
 
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Yeah, like, Peron only took power since the coup happened exactly as a earthquake ruined a major city in Argentina and he had the luck to be the minister of Labour to get the credit from saving the locals. Even in scenarios were the coup does happen but in another date he probably won't take power.
It was more complex than that...and the inner politics due the US pressure to Argentina to enter WW2 or at least to define their position, made look weak to the government...then the "nationalistic" wing (which was a minor wing into the Armed Forces) started to gain positions but it was neutralized due the candidate for the general elections was going to be General Agustín P Justo, which was well considered by conservatives, a branch of UCR and no military wanted to face him...Justo was known because he wanted to send argentinian troops, an expeditionary force like the brazilians, to fight at the Allied side ( and. Colonel Peron was the man who was rumored to be sent in that front due he had spent some time in Italy before the war. He even copied the structure of italian mountain regiments and replicated in Argentina) Then Justo suddenly died in january 1943, and the nationalistic wing (or G.O.U.) made a surprise coup in Jun 1943, and Perón was in there although he wasn't THE MAN at the beginning...all factors that won't exist without a World War 2

EDIT: I realised I put feb 43 instead of june1943, so I edited.
 
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Round of 16
Argentina-Portugal
Spain-Soviet Union
Italy-Netherlands
Brazil
-Tunisia
Peru-Ireland
France-Austria
England-Germany
Poland-Scotland

Quarterfinals
Argentina-Soviet Union
Netherlands-Brazil
France
-Peru (In Extra Time)
England-Scotland

Semifinals
Argentina-Brazil
France-Scotland

World Cup Final
Argentina-France
 
1978 FIFA World Cup - Round of 16
Part 36 - Break the Tie
1978 FIFA World Cup - Round of 16


Argentina maintained their perfect record in the last 16, controlling Portugal and scoring once in each half to secure advancement to the quarter-finals.

The second match of the day saw France leading against Austria after just three minutes, but the Austrians equalized before the number of match minutes reached double digits. Following the levelled scoring, the two teams played it safe and didn't aim to break through until the second half. For France, this ambition became reality when they added a second goal in the 78th minute.

The match between Brazil and Tunisia was less dramatic. The surprise package debutants had impressed in the group stage, but their lack of World Cup experience was exposed in Mendoza, as Brazil soared to a 3-0 lead in the first half. For the remaining 45 minutes, the Brazilians could just play on the result.

Scotland had a score to settle with the 1974 runners-up Poland, who denied the Scots a place in the final four at the preceding World Cup. Whether anything was settled, only the player knows, but Scotland did open the scoring with 20 minutes on the clock. However, Poland came out rejuvenated and with a plan in the second half, which materialized brilliantly with two goals separated by 14 minutes each. Scotland's borderline heroic last-minute push failed to level the score. Disappointment again.

After a shaky group stage, the Netherlands shaped up and kept Italy at bay, netting twice in the second half to win over the Azzurri, who had topped the group of death.

The usually disciplined - cynics might say boring - Irish came out Guinness blazing against Peru, going in front before a quarter had passed. But it was an illusion, as the Peruvian golden generation both equalized and took the lead before the second half was completed. A third was added late in the match after an emphatic counterattack.

The Cordoba contest between Spain and the Soviet Union was not any game. Just four years prior, the Soviets had boycotted Spain's World Cup due to their fascist regime. Francisco Franco can count himself unlucky for having died three years before, as he missed one of the games of the tournament. Despite the deceivingly low scoreline, the players were as frenetic as the game was politically charged. Chance after chance. Challenge after challenge - but not cynical ones. No red cards. However, the Soviet goalkeeper arguably saw red when his defenders failed to block an iconic long-distance strike in the 29th minute. Spain 1, Soviet Union 0. The wild nature of the match persisted and finally saw another goal in the 81st minute when the Soviets equalized. For the first time that summer, a game went to extra time (it would not be the last). The Soviets had a monumental opportunity to win in the 119th minute. One-on-one with the goalkeeper. Shot - goalkeeper's leg - post - back in play. To a Spaniard, who hammered away a hail Mary. The pass found its way a striker, who did what the Soviets couldn't. Rounded the goalkeeper. Cool as ice. Spain in the quarter-finals.

The best was saved for last - England versus Germany. In 1974, no winner was crowned. Since then, the Germans had become European champions. However, The Three Lions took an enormous step when they made it 1-0 right on the stroke of halftime. The second half was also even, and it took Germany to the 74th minute before the score was levelled. England reacted accordingly and restored their lead four minutes later. But the Germans were always on their tail, equalizing for the second time in the 85th minute. The match changed for the worse during extra time, with neither side willing to take risks. However, instead of by replay or coin toss, the match would be decided by a new tiebreaker: the penalty shootout [1]. Germany proved to be slightly more potent. England suffered a tragically early exit.

1978 knockout 2 REAL.png



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[1] Though not required until the 1982 World Cup in OTL, it was first implemented at the 1978 tournament.

Another part completed! Thanks for reading. Let me know your predictions for the rest of the tournament, which will conclude in the next part.
 
1978 FIFA World Cup - Remaining Knockout Stage
Part 37 - Monumental
1978 FIFA World Cup - Remaining Knockout Stage

Argentina acquired an early lead versus Spain, who equalized before the halfway mark. However, the hosts applied additional dominance for the remaining 45 minutes, culminating in the winning goal.

The greatly anticipated derby between Germany and Poland failed to live up to the hype, despite good intentions from players. The Germans appeared unusually rusty, presumably still hungover from the drawn-out battle with England. During extra time, a good - but definitely not unsavable shot - found its way into the bottom left corner, and Poland reached the semi-finals again, while the European champions had to go home.

In contrast, the third quarter-final proved to be the knockout stage’s most entertaining. Brazil went in front after 14 minutes against the reigning Dutch world champions, who levelled the scoring not long thereafter. Shortly into the second half, Brazil restored their lead before adding a third in the 73rd minute. The Netherlands still played well and doubled their goal tally 15 minutes later, but it was too little too late for the champions, even though they could hold their heads high.

France scored the opener against Peru in the 22nd minute, but as halftime approached, the Copa America title holders made it 1-1. The second half was just as energetic, however, given the energetic nature of the match, fans still looked forward to extra time. When the dust settled after the initial onslaught, the French found the second goal to reach the semi-finals for the first time since 1958 [1].

The first semi-final was the monumentally anticipated match between hosts Argentina and arch-rivals Brazil. Despite no lack of intentions and intensity, the match was goalless after 90 minutes. However, the hosts found a breakthrough - and another - running out 2-0 victors in front of their home fans to secure a place in their fourth World Cup final.

Unlike the first semi-final, the one in Rosario saw its ferocity lead to goals. First France, which prompted Poland to enter a higher gear, resulting in three well-worked goals before the referee whistled the end of the first half. Midway through the second one, the French found a second but never a third. Poland may have had an excellent generation, but few would have expected them to reach consecutive World Cup finals when they had never even made it to the last eight prior to finishing as runners-up four years ago.

France failed to secure silverware again - having also lost to Hungary in the 1958 bronze match - succumbing 2-1 to Brazil despite leading at halftime.

Argentina won their first World Cup title 36 years before - also on home soil, but in 1966 they had to settle with silver. Could they exorcise their Wembley demons? Meanwhile, Poland were hoping to rectify their Bernabeu trauma. But despite a respectable performance, it was never really close. Two Mario Kempes goals secured Argentina their second World Cup triumph, while Poland suffered a devastating consecutive defeat in the final.

1978 knockout 3.png

Knockout stage of the 1978 FIFA World Cup.


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[1] Credit to @QTXAdsy and @Ogrebear for correctly predicting the quarter-final winners.

Another World Cup completed! Stay tuned for Euro 1980!
 
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