If they will not meet us on the open sea (a Trent TL)

If Congress will stand for it, that is. Paying for logistics in a peacetime army without overseas commitments is a tough sell.
Eh.

I'd say given that there are two (three if we count Mexico) hostile nations bordering the US and the distances involved Congress will probably pay ITTL. In fact I'd say that US military spending will be relativly higher (There is probably some absolute loss in GDP compared to OTL what with the South being gone) than it was OTL for a long time.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Eh.

I'd say given that there are two (three if we count Mexico) hostile nations bordering the US and the distances involved Congress will probably pay ITTL. In fact I'd say that US military spending will be relativly higher (There is probably some absolute loss in GDP compared to OTL what with the South being gone) than it was OTL for a long time.
Ah, but paying for troops is one thing - paying for the logistics is another.

As an example, let's imagine the budgeting for the US of 1869 or so.

40,000 to 50,000 permanently active regulars. This is a lot by US standards, something between double and triple their normal steady-state.
100,000 militia who are regularly drilled by the States (thus actually high quality). This is also a lot of expenditure compared to OTL, indeed OTL in most cases the militia had to pay for themselves to drill, but you wouldn't get enough.
Planning figures for (and rifles for) as many as 300,000 troops on mobilization in addition to the above.
And... logistics organizations permanently in place to support 450,000 troops, or nine to ten times the number of actual regulars. That is going to be a hard sell. (This very problem often afflicted the British Army, with Cambridge having to constantly fight off cuts to the support services - I don't see the US evading it.)


Also, no, it's two TTL. The Confederacy forms a complete barrier between the US and Mexico, because of the CS state of Colorado and the CS Arizona Territory (along with another CS Territory which is as yet unorganized).


ED:
As for loss in GDP - the Union TTL is actually still suffering from something of a financial crisis. With the loss of their gold income, and the loss of most of the income from customs and excise duty, the Union was left with two basic ways to fund the war - borrow and print money. Their printing money caused a fairly significant inflation crisis, and they've got a lot of debt they're having to service.
The other problem is that a substantial fraction of the OTL US export economy is now in the Confederacy. Cotton, tobacco, indigo - a lot of the things the US could export are now not really options for them, or if they are they've got far less than the Confederacy has. The main remaining US product is grain (Their industries still can't compete in the open market with British industries), and OTL their market impact in 1861-5 was partly due to selling off their glut which would have gone to the South as pat of internal trade.

So the US has lost some fairly significant revenue streams. It's not at national-collapse levels of trouble, but it is at the point where the Federal government is having to keep a careful eye on the paper versus specie value of the dollar and hasn't really got the opportunity to pay off the debt on any large scale.
 
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An possible argument in favor of logistic support would be that it allows for less overall active troops (The arguments needs to convince congress, facts, reality or truth are secondary) by enabling a rapid shift of troops across the vasty country. Basically a early REFORGER. And that the industry to support this can be used in civilian ways (to congress: employing voters, to voters: export some of those guns, yeah) and so somewhat pays itself, unlike the troops which just cost money.
 
You would think McClellan would make his point using the Wisconsin Regiments rather than the British in an internal communication, as it a. Is more relevant and b. is more patriotic.

Not at all. There simply wasn't enough engagement by Wisconsin regiments TTL to really notice the comparison, but the British have (a) just kicked the Union up the St Lawrence and down the Great Lakes and (b) have this system in place army wide and to a much greater extent.

There's also the pragmatic point that crediting British success to better organisation is easier (especially for a presidential candidate) to do than saying it was because they were smarter, braver, stronger, etc - "there's nothing wrong with Our Boys - it's all the fault of the politicians (who I am running against) who sent them into battle without the tools they needed". After all, administrative reforms can be be effected a lot easier than changes to the national character.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
An possible argument in favor of logistic support would be that it allows for less overall active troops (The arguments needs to convince congress, facts, reality or truth are secondary) by enabling a rapid shift of troops across the vasty country. Basically a early REFORGER. And that the industry to support this can be used in civilian ways (to congress: employing voters, to voters: export some of those guns, yeah) and so somewhat pays itself, unlike the troops which just cost money.
It's not actually industry, not in this time period - it is in fact largely expenses. It means having:

A trained staff
A large number of horses maintained as part of the Army
A large number of Army wagons, kept up to strength and in good shape
Enough trained drovers to operate the above two

And for a planning-figure army of half a million men, this is huge in scale. To give some kind of comparison, the number of wagons required to operate three days from base (which is about forty miles in good weather) is about 225 wagons per 10,000 men, so for an army of half a million men to have that kind of strategic mobility you're talking about eleven thousand wagons and nearly seventy thousand horses. If the whole job of running the logistics was to go to the military train then that would also mean you'd need ~70,000 men in the military train, but even if you only trained the drovers you're looking at about 20,000 men or so kept permanently on strength.

This, by the way, is why rail and especially waterborne transport are so important...
 
That sounds like:
- place to stuff nephews into without risking them getting shot at aka Nepotism ho!
- subsidized horse ranching aka Pork
- subsidized wagon industry aka Pork but also helpful with that manifest destiny stuff
- a position to dole out at townhall meetings to families (Yes, Mr. Handerson I'll make sure your son gets accepted)

and bunch of infrastructure projects various barons of industry might interested to push for their own selfless reasons.

Of course if the Army can/wants to 'market' this as such is another matter.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Well, yes, the subsidized bit is the problem. This is a very considerable expense and armies have always had a problem with sustaining their budgets in peacetime - and in the case of the US, they have a lot of debt to service and so Congress may feel that it's better to just pay in the event it's needed.

(The US OTL saved quite a lot of money by not having anything like a standing army.)
 
Bully for you, I say! You write very well. Were this ever organised into a book, a combination of such scenes and the more factual extracts would be a wondrous and interesting experience, I daresay. Bloody good show, this whole timeline.
Kind of like Fox on the Rhine, yeah. That narrative-fact combination was great
 
3-31 December 1864

Saphroneth

Banned
3 December

Robert Whitehead at Stabilimento Tecnico Fiumano experiments with the use of wet guncotton as an underwater explosive charge instead of gunpowder. The result is an effective explosion for a smaller mass than the gunpowder charge he has been working with to date, making it an important step in the process of refining the "coast-saving ship" - though it has already begun to be called the "locomotive torpedo" instead. The hope is that it will have a range of a few hundred yards, and that it could be used either by very heavily armed vessels (to close through the gun range of an enemy ship) or by small steam launches released during a battle.


5 December

The first Dahlgren XX-inch gun's casting is completed, and the gun is prepared for proofing.
Dahlgren admits to himself that it is fortunate he employed the Rodman method for casting this gun - his own process would have seriously hampered the strength of the gun, as it reaches the limit of the metallurgy at about a 9" gun - but nevertheless this is the moment of truth. The gun is loaded with a 100-lb blank charge, and fired.
Nothing happens.
After some considerable strife (and embarassment) the charge is pulled and the bore inspected from the inside by a man. It is found that the problem is the vent hole, which is so long (~23 inches) that the friction primer cannot reach the charge.
A process involving fine powder is set up, and the blank cartridge fired successfully.


6 December

The tests on the Dahlgren XX-inch continue. A solid shot weighing half a ton is made ready to fire (which once again reveals the key deficiency with the system of enormous guns, which is that the charges weigh too much to be efficiently loaded) with half-charge behind it.
The shot is successful, and throws up an enormous cloud of spray - one which looks to be as large as any ship. The muzzle velocity is estimated at about 1,000 feet per second, though this is without any particular data to it.

The second firing of the day (which takes place around an hour later, a considerable fraction of the time being the time required to move the gun back into position) involves a 100-lb powder charge and another 20 inch shot. It is fired at maximum elevation, about 25 degrees, and the recoil drives the gun and carriage back a very long distance.
The result of the firing is impressive to behold, as the ball goes flying about three and a half miles before splashing into the water with a great plume of spray.

The third and final firing of the day uses a shell (725 lbs empty, 25 lbs of filling) and fires with a 7 second fuze. This turns out to be a minor embarassment, as the shell detonates in mid-air well before it would hit the putative target - thus suggesting that the muzzle velocity is substantially below expectations, possibly because the gun is belching forth a considerable mass of unburned powder.
Nevertheless, the gun is considered acceptable and Ericsson requests that Dahlgren provide the guns required for Puritan as soon as possible. (It is felt that, even if the armour of a target rejects the ball, the sheer momentum of the impact will crush the sides of the ship back into it.)
Dahlgren says he would prefer to do proof testing with larger charges, but Ericsson somewhat sarcastically asks how many XX-inch guns Dahlgren is planning on destroying to verify the safe charge.


9 December

James Maxwell presents a paper on electromagnetism to the Royal Society. This is the first time in human history anyone besides James Maxwell has known what light is.



11 December

At Hythe, after much debate the annual musketry qualifications are adjusted to include an extra component. In addition to the file firing, rank firing and individual firing, there will also now be a "rapid firing" component. The rules for this one are fairly simple, with the rifleman having one minute to hit ten targets. One point per target, no points for a miss.
The dictum here is that rapid firing must still incorporate accuracy.


14 December

Elections for the Consultative Assembly take place in Mexico. As expected there is a wild riot of parties elected, with several states producing state-only parties (e.g. "Chihuahua Liberal Party") but the result of all this is that people generally feel that their vote has been counted.



18 December

The Paraguayan War is formally declared.

Also on this date, Dutch control over southern Sumatra is soldified.


20 December

Most of the parties to the Consultative Assembly have begun making alliances, thus solidifying the chaos into a number of political blocs. Among those of note are the "Conservatives", "Liberals" and a group called the "Crown Loyalists" - those who feel that Maximilien I is actually quite a good choice for Mexico and who wish to make their opinion clear.


24 December

The slave ship Jessiebelle is stopped off the coast of Nova Sintra by the British sloop Chanticleer. The attempt by the slave ship to put up a US flag completely backfires and the Jessiebelle is found to be a slaver - thus, promptly captured.


25 December

The men of the 44th Regiment of Foot have a decidedly odd Christmas, spending it in Hawaii at Pearl Harbour as the current garrison. As part of the festivities there is a demonstration by a number of Hawaiians of a sport involving riding on wooden boards in the waves - something which intrigues many of the men of the regiment, and which will shortly become a major leisure time activity for the Fighting Fours.

Also on this date, Charles Darwin and Gregor Mendel conduct the first in a series of Christmas Lectures on Evolution and Inheritance. Mendel's accent in English is rather thick, but working with Darwin he is able to cope - and the resultant lectures cover the full science of Evolution And Genetics as it is currently understood.
Mendel shows some of his peas, which are well remarked upon, and Darwin exhibits some of his examples of variance. (In particular, Darwin gives the example of the peppered moth as a potential case of evolution in action, showing a population captured in Manchester and one captured in the countryside around the market town of Aylesbury.)


28 December

First Confederate Supreme Court ruling, upholding the rights of the Louisiana Native Guard to bear arms in the defence of their country. The ruling is split, and the arguments long, but ultimately the principle of state autonomy wins through - in Louisiana the Native Guard (as a very well drilled, self-organized militia regiment) is considered to actually be the best unit in the State Militia, and they are viewed as an "exception".


31 December

Conclusions are reached on HMS Research - to whit, she is a poor sailer and a poor combatant. She would be effective inshore, and indeed her armament is somewhat more survivable than that on a ship of the monitor type, but it seems as though Research is too small to make an effective armoured vessel.
Reed determines that future vessels of this size should only be armoured sufficient to keep out common shell.
 
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Saphroneth

Banned
Question: How white is Puritan's Elephant?
In the event of an enemy coming alongside her, she will badly damage them. (She can penetrate Warrior with ease with 100-lb charges and steel shot, and most ships of the period can't really handle being punched in the side with a half-ton cannonball.)

Her guns take so long to reload that an enemy could close through her range with some row boats. (My estimated reload time is about 1/2 hour between shots for a fully trained crew.)

As a monitor, even a "seagoing" monitor, she's not very seaworthy or fast.

Basically, pretty white, and can't fight multiple simultaneous enemies simply because she'd be lucky to get a hit per hour. Got a hell of a trunk though.


(Of course, the Confederacy are also to have their own share of mad ships, as this is after all The Very Silly Time.)
 
In the event of an enemy coming alongside her, she will badly damage them. (She can penetrate Warrior with ease with 100-lb charges and steel shot, and most ships of the period can't really handle being punched in the side with a half-ton cannonball.)

Her guns take so long to reload that an enemy could close through her range with some row boats. (My estimated reload time is about 1/2 hour between shots for a fully trained crew.)

As a monitor, even a "seagoing" monitor, she's not very seaworthy or fast.

Basically, pretty white, and can't fight multiple simultaneous enemies simply because she'd be lucky to get a hit per hour. Got a hell of a trunk though.


(Of course, the Confederacy are also to have their own share of mad ships, as this is after all The Very Silly Time.)

Soo, err, how many Guns is she carrying, of what types, and how fast will her turrets rotate?

Basically, can you beat the Puritan by just out-turning the Turrets?
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Soo, err, how many Guns is she carrying, of what types, and how fast will her turrets rotate?
She's carrying two guns in one turret. The turret would turn a little slower than those of an OTL ACW monitor (so a few minutes for a full revolution) but the real bugger is that the shot is far too large to carry more than one in the turret at a time. Thus they have to lock the gun in place on the fore-aft line in order to winch up each half-ton cannonball, and incidentally they can't reload in any rough seas at all because to turn the turret you have to lift it up.

Basically, the gun may as well be a casemate gun.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Otherwise known as the John Ericcson Enrichment program?
Well, not in all cases. He hated the two-turret monitors, considering it a useless waste of effort when the same displacement could be used to construct a single monitor with a more powerful gun and better armour. (Logical until something breaks, or until you have to engage on more than one side, or until Rate of Fire comes up...)
He also insisted that the best way for Monitor to combat the Virginia was.. to load shell and fire at the waterline.

Distinctly innovative, but not necessarily very insightful with it...
 

Saphroneth

Banned
I think I might do another "interstitial scene" today - one of the ones in non-TL style. Possibilities include a bit of "ornery sergeant training the recently mustered Canadian volunteers", or a bit of "quickly scraping together plans for defending Canada" during the period between the OTL climbdown and the TTL war declaration.
 
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