If they will not meet us on the open sea (a Trent TL)

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galveston bay

cerebropetrologist said:
Why are they necessarily exclusive? If you admit four free states from Canada, it just means you have to admit more slave states to balance them out. And the New York Herald knows where to find them:

'the most superficial view of the annexation of Honduras will convince the intelligent reader that it is a question of more immediate and comprehensive importance than the Cuba question... the State lies in that exact geographical position which will enable us not only effectively to check the machinations of British, French, and Spanish emissaries, and to upset their schemes for the 'balance of power' upon this continent, but the suggested annexation will give us the nucleus around which we shall be able most rapidly to bring in, upon the same terms, the other States of Central America, to the west and the south, and of Mexico on the North." (New York Herald, 7 June 1854)

'the prevailing conviction of the American people is that sooner or later Cuba must be ours... their prevailing desire is the earliest practical movement of the government in this direction. The Kansas slavery agitation of the last four years has left the democratic and the opposition parties of the country in an unprecedented condition of disorder and disintegration. Upon the remaining fragments of their late slavery and anti-slavery party capital, we can expect nothing in 1860 but a loose, disorderly and riotous scrub race for the next Presidency, and a contest in the House of Representatives which may abruptly break up the general government and the Union. But with the general rally of the scattered elements of the old democracy upon this auspicious party movement for the acquisition of Cuba, all the existing lines between sections and factions will disappear, and the democracy, from the brink of destruction, like Napoleon in the critical moment at Marengo, will be enabled to charge back upon the enemy and win the field.' (New York Herald, 18 January 1859)

Bear this kind of thing in mind the next time people tell you 1860s Britain is an expansionist power.
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don't get too excited about the New York Herald (or really any newspaper for most of the history of the US). The owner (Bennet) of that paper said that the function of a newspaper "is not to instruct but to startle and amuse."

of course the United States was an expansionist power.. Manifest Destiny was little different from European powers doing their own imperialism. The US got to keep its empire though.
 
19 July - 1 August 1863
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    • Saphroneth

    Banned
    19 July

    Fort Scammell of Portland, Maine and Fort Warren of Boston, Massachusets, are selected by the US Committee on Fortifications as examples of undamaged pre-war forts. The intent is to use them as targets to discover at what range they are vulnerable to modern US guns (including in particular the 6.4" Parrott rifle felt to be a close comparison to the Armstrong gun) and to then use this as a minimum baseline for possible fort structures.
    There is some opposition in Congress to the idea of blowing up two of the only undamaged forts on the US east coast, though it is noted that as things currently stand they do not appear to be of much use in their current state.


    20 July
    South Carolina senator James L. Orr asks the Confederate Congress why the Confederate Navy has not agreed to commit their ironclads and frigates to the defence of Charleston.
    In a long and detailed reply, Mallory (Secretary of the Navy) details why every ship is needed where it is. He includes the Alabama for her important diplomatic role, the Charleston for being half-cased, the Virginia and Old Dominion as needed to defend Gosport (and hence what is still the Confederate capital at Richmond, as the issue of moving into Washington is still undergoing debate), the various ironclads in the Mississippi system as not fit for oceanic transit, and the Three Presidents as being either on the ways or only just launched - thus unfit to fight.
    Also mentioned are the two turret ironclads (the 'laird rams') which were purchased by the Royal Navy some months ago.


    21 July
    The CSS Saul and David are commissioned. These are two spar torpedo vessels, making use of the newly invented spar torpedo to deliver an explosive charge directly under the keel of an enemy ship.
    Any hopes of keeping the concept a secret have been lost as the news in the Confederacy has been making much of it, but Singer's research on spar torpedoes has given the Confederacy an advantage in the deployment of this kind of vessel.


    23 July
    British squadron arrives off Edo to present demands to the Shogunate.
    The British ships bring a conflict already taking place in the upper echelons of Japanese society into sharp focus - a matter of primacy between the Emperor and the Shogun.
    The Shogun's position is that apology must be made - that the Namagumi Incident is and was dishonourable - and that negotiation to bring down the indemnity might be possible. The Emperor, by contrast - as the issuer of the Sonnou Joui decree to expel barbarians - feels that Yamato-daishii can overcome any mere matter of technology.

    The upshot of all this is that no decision takes place immediately.


    25 July
    Alabama informs South Carolina that South Carolina cannot have the Hunley, as (paraphrased) they will break it.


    28 July
    The Shogun takes the unusual step of announcing both his opinion as advisor to the Emperor and his actions as commanded by the Emperor.
    The internal political reason for this is that he feels that this is an excellent opportunity to demonstrate why the divine Emperor is the ruler of Japan only in a theoretical sense.
    His statement is that an apology and restitution of honour was his intent, but that the Emperor has commanded him to 'expel barbarians'. (Slightly overstating things in the latter case, but entirely believable givven the Sonnou Joui decree). As such, he commands the navies of all the Daimyo to concentrate at Edo to follow the commands of the Emperor.

    30 July
    The Emperor of Japan hears about what the Shogun has done.
    It is at this point he realizes he is, effectively, stuck - if he countermands the orders of the Shogun he appears arbitrary, whereas if he has (as it seems) overridden the Shogun's command to send the ships of Japan to war and the combined force of Japan is defeated then he will lose most of his prestige.
    His only way out is a victory for the Japanese Navy.

    1 August
    Running slightly ahead of schedule, the Royal Naval squadron intended to remonstrate with South Carolina reaches Bermuda.
    Those ships requiring recoaling enter the basin - the weather is fine, so even the liners can do it - and troops disembark for a day or two of rifle practice before going back aboard ship.
     
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    • diestormlie

    Saphroneth said:
    The Emperor, by contrast - as the issuer of the Sonnou Joui decree to expel barbarians - feels that Yamato-daishii can overcome any mere matter of technology.
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    Saphroneth said:
    The Emperor of Japan hears about what the Shogun has done.
    It is at this point he realizes he is, effectively, stuck - if he countermands the orders of the Shogun he appears arbitrary, whereas if he has (as it seems) overridden the Shogun's command to send the ships of Japan to war and the combined force of Japan is defeated then he will lose most of his prestige.
    His only way out is a victory for the Japanese Navy.
    Click to expand...

    ...Dumbass.

    Well, Meiji will have quite the mess to clean up when he gets into power (OTL 1867. TTL ??? If at all.) Whether or not it's bigger or smaller than OTL's remains to be seen. Likely bigger.

    Edit: Emperor's out, I think, is to pin the blame on either the Shogun lying to him/keeping information from him or just lying outright about what he advised the Emperor to do.
     
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    Saphroneth

    Banned
    diestormlie said:
    Edit: Emperor's out, I think, is to pin the blame on either the Shogun lying to him/keeping information from him or just lying outright about what he advised the Emperor to do.
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    And the Shogun's counter to that, of course, is to ask why he did not say so before a battle.

    Make no mistake, this is hardly a silver bullet for the Shogun. But what it does do is chip away at the position of Emperor as infallible divine figure.

    Japan plans
    My plan is, essentially, for any Meiji restoration attempt - if it happens - to be something of a damp squib, and for the Shogunate to be badly rattled but fundamentally persist.
    The ideal then would be that the Shogun and the Emperor work closely together, creating a situation where in effect the Japanese government consists of a hereditary head of state (Emperor), hereditary head of government (Shogun), hereditary upper house (Daimyo, sans some significant power) and an elected and quite fractious lower house.
     
    Observations on the Qualities of an Iron Battleship
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    • Saphroneth

    Banned
    Observations on the qualities of an iron battleship. (Excerpts.)


    ...it seems to me that, while in the old sailing ships the qualities of seamanship were paramount, this is so much less the case in the steam ship that a whole new assessment is made; and that, further, a number of new qualities have arisen which demand attention all their own.
    Those are: the quality of the ship as a fighting platform for men; the ability of the ship to respond to orders; the great guns carried; the protection the ship affords the crew; the physical capabilities of the ship; the reliability of the ship; the extent to which the ship may operate under adverse conditions of weather; the capability of the ship to resist damage from any source.
    Of these, the most important can be said to be the ability to respond to orders, for the best floating battery is an easy target for a ship with the facility of wind and wave behind her; next is the ability to resist damage, for a ship shot apart is a ship no longer; after that, it is the capacity of the ship to harm another.
    In contest between two like ships, the one being more excellent in all properties except her ability to absorb damage, then the lesser ship with the greater armour may be able to prevail...
    ...in the battle that took place in New York Harbour in the late American War, the WARRIOR and the MONITOR battled one another; of these two ships, the WARRIOR was unquestionably superior in all aspects for her resilience and ease of command, such that even in a confined space which hampered her ability to fight effectively she came out the superior. If instead the DEFENCE had been engaged in like battle, then despite the far inferior qualities of DEFENCE to WARRIOR in so many ways the DEFENCE would still have come out the victor, for her greater facility with her great guns and to resist the shot of same...
    ...all the qualities of a ship are relative, not absolute, and the fast ship of yesterday may be the laggard of tomorrow. Nevertheless, it should be immediately clear that a ship with superior armour and weaponry retains her ability to fight longer compared to her slighter sister with a greater speed, while a fast vessel with weak guns and armour shall quickly become a vessel that may as well have no guns or armour at all...




    -Gunnery Lt. Fisher, written in 1863 during his time in the Warrior.

    (Yes, it's that Fisher. Jackie Fisher was already an incisive-minded fellow even in the 1860s.)
     
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    • Thoresby

    Saphroneth said:
    Observations on the qualities of an iron battleship. (Excerpts.)


    ...it seems to me that, while in the old sailing ships the qualities of seamanship were paramount, this is so much less the case in the steam ship that a whole new assessment is made; and that, further, a number of new qualities have arisen which demand attention all their own.
    Those are: the quality of the ship as a fighting platform for men; the ability of the ship to respond to orders; the great guns carried; the protection the ship affords the crew; the physical capabilities of the ship; the reliability of the ship; the extent to which the ship may operate under adverse conditions of weather; the capability of the ship to resist damage from any source.
    Of these, the most important can be said to be the ability to respond to orders, for the best floating battery is an easy target for a ship with the facility of wind and wave behind her; next is the ability to resist damage, for a ship shot apart is a ship no longer; after that, it is the capacity of the ship to harm another.
    In contest between two like ships, the one being more excellent in all properties except her ability to absorb damage, then the lesser ship with the greater armour may be able to prevail...
    ...in the battle that took place in New York Harbour in the late American War, the WARRIOR and the MONITOR battled one another; of these two ships, the WARRIOR was unquestionably superior in all aspects for her resilience and ease of command, such that even in a confined space which hampered her ability to fight effectively she came out the superior. If instead the DEFENCE had been engaged in like battle, then despite the far inferior qualities of DEFENCE to WARRIOR in so many ways the DEFENCE would still have come out the victor, for her greater facility with her great guns and to resist the shot of same...
    ...all the qualities of a ship are relative, not absolute, and the fast ship of yesterday may be the laggard of tomorrow. Nevertheless, it should be immediately clear that a ship with superior armour and weaponry retains her ability to fight longer compared to her slighter sister with a greater speed, while a fast vessel with weak guns and armour shall quickly become a vessel that may as well have no guns or armour at all...




    -Gunnery Lt. Fisher, written in 1863 during his time in the Warrior.

    (Yes, it's that Fisher. Jackie Fisher was already an incisive-minded fellow even in the 1860s.)
    Click to expand...


    Well that's going to have a serious impact on the shape of the Royal Navy in 40 years.
     
    3-9 August 1863
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    • Saphroneth

    Banned
    3 August
    Satsuma refuses to provide their ships, citing the severe damage they have already suffered. (This conflicts with their account of victory somewhat, but not enough to matter.)
    The implications are interesting, however, as not only is Satsuma domain the cause of the incident in the first place but they have the most warships of any domain.


    4 August
    The British fleet riding at anchor at Edo is becoming increasingly suspicious. Quite apart from anything else, there seem to be an awful lot of Bakfu warships turning up.
    Maitland's response to this is simply to ensure Bacchante is ready to clear for action at short notice, a practice which the other ships take up.
    Behind the scenes, both the Shogun and the Emperor are attempting to influence events appropriately. The Shogun has also trapped himself to some extent, for example, and with the refusal by Satsuma to commit any warships they may end up with the largest possible fleet.
    While the sun sets on this confusing scene, the fleet intended for Charleston weighs anchor and sets out under the command of Stopfort (flying his flag in the Royal Oak). Their initial plan is to anchor around the barrier islands, a safe distance from Charleston itself, and then to commence the reduction of the city.

    5 August
    Militia muster completes in South Carolina. There are some twenty regiments of infantry, not all full strength, plus some cavalry and the artillery.
    There are several arguments over whether this means the militia are "federalized", "confederalized" or just "mobilized", particularly in light of the way that only perhaps ten further regiments of militia from around the Confederacy are on the way (many volunteers) and so this can hardly be said to be a war the Confederacy is participating in with full vigour.

    7 August
    After over a week of nothing violent happening in Edo bay, an ultimatum is delivered to the Bakfu - either they must both explain their actions and make restitution as previously demanded, or the British fleet will "take appropriate steps". They are given three days to respond, increased from one day after the Shogun requests that he be permitted to consult the Emperor.

    8 August
    Stopfort's squadron arrives off Charleston.
    While the logistics are worked out, a demand for immediate capitulation is sent ashore. The demand includes that all those involved in the illegal detention of a British seaman be punished, and that in addition the most severe penalties be exacted upon those involved with firing on Archer.
    The demand is sent back within hours, unfulfilled - to use a colloquial phrase, Charleston's residents have their dander up, or at least the more gung-ho ones do. (The population of the city is distinctly smaller than it was two weeks ago, as those somewhat less blase move out of range.)

    9th August
    The Emperor of Japan recieves the Shogun's summary of the British final demand, along with the Shogun's public statement that he will bow to the will of the Emperor in this manner.
    Both men know what it means - whatever now happens, the Emperor will have to take the blame.
     
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    • Saphroneth

    Banned
    The Gunslinger said:
    Those Confederates just can't catch a break, you'd think that they'd be tired of war rather than be actively courting it.
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    As to that, the TTL Civil War was actually not all that bad for the Confederacy - not for South Carolina, at any rate, who basically got to show off without any of the chickens coming home to roost. The Stone Fleet was more or less as far as it got.
    The rest of the Confederacy is not quite so gung ho, but it would be an overreach for them to compel South Carolina and Charleston to apologize - though it is clear to the British that the Confederacy itself has apologized, so this is very much a limited war. (Parallels of the situation in Japan, really.)
     

    diestormlie

    Saphroneth said:
    It's what happens if your rhetoric is "expel the foreigners" and the foreigners in question have far more guns.
    The interesting question to me, though, is - will he back down, or double down?
    Click to expand...

    Exactly. One would have thought to assertain quite how many guns the foreigners had before you embarked upon your course.
     

    Saphroneth

    Banned
    So, next update plans:

    A brief and rare PoV shot, South Carolina militia gunner Joseph P. Buckley out on Fort Gregg, taking a break as the dawn comes in.
    And then he spots what looks like the whole bloody royal navy, and hears the thump of a cannon.
    Takes him a moment to identify which ship fired, and he sees a big cloud of smoke from a two-decker with steam up - but no sign of the shells, and the ship's broadsides are pointing away from him anyway.
    Then he, personally, gets hit by a one-ton mortar shell.

    What can I say, it's tradition.
    After that, back to the normal way of things, as the RN reduces the outer batteries. (Wagner, Gregg, Beauregard).
     

    Saphroneth

    Banned
    Fair warning, though, before then I might use a few posts to detail the order-of-battle for both sides (along with the state of the defences). I want to be sure I get it right!
     
    nepcotevalley

    nepcotevalley

    The Gunslinger said:
    Those Confederates just can't catch a break, you'd think that they'd be tired of war rather than be actively courting it.
    Click to expand...
    Not really the Confederacy. Just South Carolina. O.T.L. they had quite the reputation. Even the rest of the Confederacy considered them to be nothing but Trouble. Rabble rousers and fanatics. Regards.
     
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