Saphroneth
Banned
Incidentally, note that only the Medea and the Old Dominion carry 10" guns - no matter who hit the Immortalite, it wasn't blue on red. (No, it was red on red or grey on red.)
If they will not meet us on the open sea (a Trent TL)
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Saphroneth
Banned
Frankly at this point I'm planning on the Union throwing in the towel (translation, calling a peace conference) pretty soon. I'm envisioning the British not lifting the blockade, because they're not stupid, but a ceasefire until the conference is hashed out one way or the other.
Possible conference locations include St. Pierre (French territory), Azores (Portugese territory) or somewhere Spanish - and I'm inclined towards the latter as the Spanish are relatively neutral - with the Russians and the French being the most likely mediators.
Havana might make a decent home for a peace conference. St. Pierre seems a little small for the purposes though.
Or even go to Europe - Madrid, Copenhagen, a Dutch town,...
I am not sure France is acceptable to the US (MExican adventure), Russia might not to UK (recent Crimean war).
Maybe Prussia, and or Austria...
I am not sure France is acceptable to the US (MExican adventure), Russia might not to UK (recent Crimean war).
Maybe Prussia, and or Austria...
1-2 July 1862
Saphroneth
Banned
1 July
Lee's force launches an assault on Sumner, and manages to break their perimeter. The men of II Corps are already tired and running low on supplies (they had not expected to be put in this situation), and when the guns fall silent it is too much. Sumner surrenders his command, specifically because further resistance cannot achieve anything beyond getting more of his men killed.
The Confederate general himself feels somewhat better about the battle when he realizes he has captured a good third or so of the Army of the Potomac (due to all the regiments detached from III Corps, as well as the significant number of men manning what used to be III Corps' artillery) and begins coordinating with his cavalry - who need to either establish a proper supply line or fall back, though their raid has done huge damage to Union morale and was important in the outcome of the battle.
As Congress absorbs the news of the defeats of the past few days, Vallandingham reiterates his opinion that peace is the only sensible option. This time the audience is more receptive of his view, and though the debate goes on long into the night the conclusion is reached - peace must, indeed be had.
This does not in any sense mean that everyone is agreed on what peace means... but nevertheless the request is sent to Canada and to Richmond for a ceasefire in order that the details of the peace can be worked out.
2 July
Milne hears about the news of the ceasefire. Almost his first words are a clear statement that the blockade will continue, at least until the peace, as to do otherwise would be frankly stupid.
Pennefather also halts on hearing of the ceasefire, and notes with some satisfaction that he has essentially captured Lower Michigan - which will hopefully prove useful at the peace table. (He will discover the next day that a flank brigade captured Toledo as well largely by accident late on the 1st, having found it defended by a small number of militia unwilling to put up a serious fight).
The Vanderbilt approaches the straits of Gibraltar after a hasty recoaling at A Coruna, and a course shaped well out to sea to avoid British ships at the Tagus (based on old information - the ships which were at the Tagus are now blockading the US coast, and unlike the assumptions made by Vanderbilt's captain the station was not replaced). The Gibraltar station has been drawn down with the war, and contains no ships capable of matching the 14 knot dash speed of the Vanderbilt (or, indeed, making twelve knots).
This, coupled with the circuitous course, means that the Vanderbilt manages to successfully run the straits. This is largely by staying at least ten miles from Gibraltar at all times - the Rock positively bristles with guns, with over six hundred guns mounted (and many of them heavy pieces such as 68-lbers) in 110 different batteries.
Telegraph messages are passed on to Malta informing the station of the Vanderbilt's passage.
Lee's force launches an assault on Sumner, and manages to break their perimeter. The men of II Corps are already tired and running low on supplies (they had not expected to be put in this situation), and when the guns fall silent it is too much. Sumner surrenders his command, specifically because further resistance cannot achieve anything beyond getting more of his men killed.
The Confederate general himself feels somewhat better about the battle when he realizes he has captured a good third or so of the Army of the Potomac (due to all the regiments detached from III Corps, as well as the significant number of men manning what used to be III Corps' artillery) and begins coordinating with his cavalry - who need to either establish a proper supply line or fall back, though their raid has done huge damage to Union morale and was important in the outcome of the battle.
As Congress absorbs the news of the defeats of the past few days, Vallandingham reiterates his opinion that peace is the only sensible option. This time the audience is more receptive of his view, and though the debate goes on long into the night the conclusion is reached - peace must, indeed be had.
This does not in any sense mean that everyone is agreed on what peace means... but nevertheless the request is sent to Canada and to Richmond for a ceasefire in order that the details of the peace can be worked out.
2 July
Milne hears about the news of the ceasefire. Almost his first words are a clear statement that the blockade will continue, at least until the peace, as to do otherwise would be frankly stupid.
Pennefather also halts on hearing of the ceasefire, and notes with some satisfaction that he has essentially captured Lower Michigan - which will hopefully prove useful at the peace table. (He will discover the next day that a flank brigade captured Toledo as well largely by accident late on the 1st, having found it defended by a small number of militia unwilling to put up a serious fight).
The Vanderbilt approaches the straits of Gibraltar after a hasty recoaling at A Coruna, and a course shaped well out to sea to avoid British ships at the Tagus (based on old information - the ships which were at the Tagus are now blockading the US coast, and unlike the assumptions made by Vanderbilt's captain the station was not replaced). The Gibraltar station has been drawn down with the war, and contains no ships capable of matching the 14 knot dash speed of the Vanderbilt (or, indeed, making twelve knots).
This, coupled with the circuitous course, means that the Vanderbilt manages to successfully run the straits. This is largely by staying at least ten miles from Gibraltar at all times - the Rock positively bristles with guns, with over six hundred guns mounted (and many of them heavy pieces such as 68-lbers) in 110 different batteries.
Telegraph messages are passed on to Malta informing the station of the Vanderbilt's passage.
Saphroneth
Banned
Gibraltar is just ridiculous, by the way. It mounted more guns than the entire forty-mile defensive perimeter of Washington at least until past October 1862.
Are all those guns pointing South or are they also delivering a friendly warning to Spain?
Saphroneth
Banned
They're in all directions - I understand the idea is supposed to be that enemy ships can't land there, and that enemy armies can't attack there. That is, it's an extremely potent fortress in all directions.
RodentRevolution
Banned
The British attitude seemed to be that they could always find room for another battery
Gibraltar defensive works
Indeed - this article gives an insight into how seriously they took defending the Rock: http://fortified-places.com/gibraltar/
and you can count the guns yourself on this map (handwritten, from 1859, so applicable to this TL): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1859_Gibraltar_fortifications_map.jpg
(Edit: I just tried to count them and got 613 guns - though I got a bit confused at one point, so might be off by a few - even so, that's a LOT of guns in just 2½ square miles!)
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Saphroneth
Banned
That's about thirty to forty short of the number I got from one source, though that number was the peak so it's possible they stuck another few dozen guns on after that map.
But yes, it's not until December 1862 that reports of the Washington perimeter climb past 500 guns (and when they do it's straight to about 700, counting mortars).
"Should we put a gun at the right side or the left?"
"Mmm, not sure, let's put one at both ends."
"Now the middle looks empty - put one there too."
"What do you mean, 'the colonel likes even numbers'? Oh, all right then, put another one over there as well."
[/derail]
"Mmm, not sure, let's put one at both ends."
"Now the middle looks empty - put one there too."
"What do you mean, 'the colonel likes even numbers'? Oh, all right then, put another one over there as well."
[/derail]
Saphroneth
Banned
I found a claim by Conroy that Washington was the most fortified place in the world in 1862. (As if - as we've seen, Gibraltar had more guns on a far smaller perimeter...)
But what I was more shocked by was that a few pages previous he has the Royal Navy not bothering to stop American coastal traffic in their blockade, because the American merchant ships stay "close to the coast, under the guns of their forts".
It's completely bloody ridiculous is what it is, to do that you'd need to build forts approximately every three miles along the entire US coastline - and yes, that means fortifying both banks of the big rivers like the Delaware...
But what I was more shocked by was that a few pages previous he has the Royal Navy not bothering to stop American coastal traffic in their blockade, because the American merchant ships stay "close to the coast, under the guns of their forts".
It's completely bloody ridiculous is what it is, to do that you'd need to build forts approximately every three miles along the entire US coastline - and yes, that means fortifying both banks of the big rivers like the Delaware...
So, if the eastern coast is somewhere between 6000 and 9000 miles long*, that's 2000-3000 guns if there's only one in each fort. I hate to think how much iron/steel/bronze that needs - I don't know how much those guns weighed, but I guess at least a ton?
*probably a severe underestimate, due to inlets/estuaries/etc - exactly how long depends on the length of the 'measuring stick' you use.
Saphroneth
Banned
This is only the Union coastline, which is theoretically shorter - but yes, it is quite silly.
If we assume that each gun carried is an 8" Rodman (which has enough range to theoretically cover an area a mile or two in radius, if not the ability to actually do much damage to anything inside it) then each gun is about four tons without the carriage. This incidentally means that the HMS Agamemnon is as heavily armed as over fifty miles of coast.
FWIW, it would take about seventy forts to have one every three miles from New York Narrows to the point the Delaware narrows to three miles wide. If you have a reasonably well equipped fort there of the same strength as (say) Fort Delaware in 1862 - a fort very much under armed for her gun circles - then you're going to need 1,890 heavy naval guns.
And here's what had been delivered by Gettysburg of the sea coast defence gun types.
90 8" Rodman guns
31 10" Rodman guns
10 15" Rodman guns
2 10" Parrott Rifles
22 8" Parrott rifles
So yes, on the face of it this is absurd. It's basically having the equivalent protection of roughly four thousand extra naval guns being provided by a country which had a hundred and fifty to emplace a year later. This is very roughly equivalent to having the German Army deploy 1,000 Tiger tanks in Operation Barbarossa.
RodentRevolution
Banned
Well the only way the US could have so many guns was if they had started much, much earlier and the likely standard gun would the 32 pound shot firing smooth bore weighing in at 57 cwt (US) so 5700lbs per gun. By 1862 one or two 32 pounder guns are not going to significantly alarm a captain looking to take a prize even if they can hit at the kind of ranges that would be asked of them.
Saphroneth
Banned
The Union has somewhat better rail connections, but they still used a vast amount of coastal traffic, so it would be a pretty major impact. (I'm afraid I can't find any good numbers for Union trade, but pre-war two thirds of the US merchant marine was employed in coastal trade - and if you do try to heavily overload your rail systems, they're going to be in trouble.)
But my point was really that Conroy's thesis was that the coasting trade was important and that the British couldn't stop it - it's really very silly.
RodentRevolution
Banned
It might not kill US internal trade dead but it is costly, a lot of US shipping was still sail driven but even using steamers the shipping of goods is going to be a lot cheaper by water.
From this Railroad Generalship: Foundations of Civil War Strategy
What exactly did steam power do for logistics?....A team of six mules drawing a wagon carrying 1.5 tons of supplies could travel 333 miles on one ton of food. Multiplying 1.5 tons by 333 miles yields 500 ton miles of transport capacity generated by that ton of mule forage. In contrast, a Civil War-era freight locomotive could travel only thirty-five miles or so on a ton of fuel, but its payload could be as high as 150 tons, yielding 5,250 ton-miles per ton of fuel consumed. (Steam boats, incidentally, did even better.)
Note that last remark by Dr Gabel on steam boats.
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